Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

doodlebug wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should back off until the kids are adults and then they can ask you for help if they want it.

Until the kids are 18, you can make offers to assist...

18 is far too late to make much of a difference.

Kids would love to go to college and get away from home and step-father. But again, the household is ignorant about how to become prepared.

So set up regular "dates" with the boys where you invite them over for a day or an overnight, do something fun and sneak in some college talk.

That is what I was thinking as well. I full well know that college is not for everyone, but I believe in being prepared for whatever opportunities may avail themselves. They will never be able to make the choice to not attend college if they are never prepared to get there.

I would STRONGLY ask you to consider why exactly you think these boys won't be prepared for college. Do they attend high school? Do they perform reasonably well? If so, they will be ready for college. Not Yale, but college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think we are beginning to see who the real snob here is.

OP, "social mobility" is not a goal. A happy, productive life, OTOH, is certainly something to strive for. Do you really see no way for your nephews to achieve that unless they are fully prepared for a top college at age 18?

I have no fixation with top colleges. SAT prep and a math tutor is merely to help them become prepared, in general, and tap scholarships.

To teens with two biological parents who are not employed, merely a half-decent white collar job is "social mobility".
I don't think you appreciate how tall the odds are for that to happen.

I do not think you appreciate how very common your nephews' circumstances are. Of course there are many of us who have family members in similar straits. And many of us know plenty of people who have "merely" "half-decent white collar" jobs. Some of us even have those jobs ourselves.

As someone who has successfully helped her kids play the merit scholarship game, I will share some hard-won knowledge with you: Unless those boys are *already* superstars, there won't be any merit scholarships out there for them that will reduce the cost of college below the $22k they'd pay at VT. Merit scholarships are given predominantly by private schools (which cost $50-$60k), most colleges that offer merit scholarships don't "stack" financial and merit aid--that is, merit aid will replace financial aid, not be added to it--and merit scholarships are rarely more than $20k or so. For most kids from families with incomes like this, the cheapest 4-year options will be (a) elite colleges that meet full financial need and (b) in-state universities. If you don't think they are possible candidates for elite colleges, then put merit scholarships out of your head completely and start focusing your thoughts on VA state schools.

[Anonymous]

doodlebug wrote:My parents didn't help out with college either. College isn't the be all end all. You can make money w/o a degree. So many people have degrees now that they're really pretty diluted unless you going into something very specific like nursing or engineering. A BA now is like a high school diploma was 30-40 yrs ago.

Unless they go into one of the above mentioned specific fields, they might be worse off w/ a degree since they will have tons of debt and no increased earning power. That's what happened to me. I'd be better off w/o my degree money wise. There are lots of programs at community colleges that might give them better earning potential w/o huge debt...like plumbing, welding, computer science, and mechanic programs. Don't think just because someone goes to college, they're set for life...or that because they didn't go to college they'll be living in poverty. It's just not so.

Agree with this statement and disagree with this conclusion. This is exactly why OP cannot MYOB. The boys will be at a serious disadvantage without a college degree. And as someone saddled with a ton of student loans, that is also a very hard start to life. OP - do what you can and do it stealthily. BIL might be a great guy but it doesn't sound like he has these boys' best interests at heart. Lots of families have relatives outside the nuclear family set up 529s or help in some way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should back off until the kids are adults and then they can ask you for help if they want it.

This. Until the kids are 18, you can make offers to assist, but they should be made to your sister. She can decide whether or not to accept your help.

Once the kids are 18, there is no reason not to offer to help the kids directly. There would be no need for BIL to know if the kid didn't want him to. If BIL expects the kids to take care of paying for college themselves, then he isn't likely to know if some of the savings/scholarship money comes from you.

If you have a chunk of change to spend, consider opening up 529s with the kids as beneficiaries. Then when they are applying to college, you can let them know that you have been saving money for them and they can expect $x per year. The money can generally be spent on only on education expenses, and many plans are set up so that you can electronically transfer funds directly to the college where the student is enrolled. That way, you know the money is being spent on higher ed expenses, and it might make it easier for you to stay behind the scenes, so to speak, if the money goes directly to the college without having to pass through your nephews' or your sister/BIL's hands.

This exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa - I see how your intentions might be alright but you are coming at this all wrong.

Here's how you do this well:

Neither of my parents went to college, but I was a bright kid with a lot of potential. My aunt and uncle invited me to stay with them in the city over the summer, and basically exposed me to their awesome quality of life, made possible by their education. They never said it outright, but they definitely talked about how much fun they had in college and how it set the stage for their success.

Then they privately talked to my parents, told them they thought I was a really good kid who had the ability to succeed in college, and offered to hire me as a babysitter and overpay me so that I could afford college prep classes and the like.

They never made my parents feel badly, and they talked to my parents before they ever made the offer to me. Basically, the tone of the discussion was "We are incredibly lucky to be in a position to do this, and at some time in the past someone helped us, so we want to pay it forward."

This is beautiful. This is exactly how to do something like this. PP - what an amazing aunt and uncle you have!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would STRONGLY ask you to consider why exactly you think these boys won't be prepared for college. Do they attend high school? Do they perform reasonably well? If so, they will be ready for college. Not Yale, but college.

I've seen their scores and report cards and obviously they've been over and converse with my children. They show promise and are on the cusp of being prepared for college. On current track they'll get in, but anyone can get into college. They'd be high-risk future dropouts. Further, they have no way to pay for it - I don't even know how they'd pay for a junior college.

For anyone familiar with Richard Hoggart, he and Richard Rodriguez wrote about being a "scholarship boy." Basically the need for a first-gen working class student to distance themselves from anti-education family and embrace the university. College away from home is the ticket out of the trap multiple generations of their family are caught up in.

[Anonymous]

You can help them all you want when they are adults and want help. Right now they are smb else's kids and I'm be upset too specially if you brought it up that he needs to save for their college.

[Anonymous]

OP, all you can do is try to make a positive difference in their lives.

It's true, their odds of success in college (and beyond) aren't as good as your own kids' odds would be.

You have to play the hand you (and they) are dealt. You're right, it would probably be better if they could go to a better high school, get tutoring, go to SAT prep. But, they can't.

So play this hand. They might not get into as good a college as they could have if they'd been better prepared. Okay. They might not be as prepared for college as they could be. Okay. So what are your options now? Help them identify colleges where they DO have a good chance of admission. Help them pay for it. Help them succeed by encouraging them to reach out to professors, get help if they need it, seek out mentors, take advantage of opportunities. If they stumble, help them up.

Play this hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoa - I see how your intentions might be alright but you are coming at this all wrong.

Here's how you do this well:

Neither of my parents went to college, but I was a bright kid with a lot of potential. My aunt and uncle invited me to stay with them in the city over the summer, and basically exposed me to their awesome quality of life, made possible by their education. They never said it outright, but they definitely talked about how much fun they had in college and how it set the stage for their success.

Then they privately talked to my parents, told them they thought I was a really good kid who had the ability to succeed in college, and offered to hire me as a babysitter and overpay me so that I could afford college prep classes and the like.

They never made my parents feel badly, and they talked to my parents before they ever made the offer to me. Basically, the tone of the discussion was "We are incredibly lucky to be in a position to do this, and at some time in the past someone helped us, so we want to pay it forward."

This is beautiful. This is exactly how to do something like this. PP - what an amazing aunt and uncle you have!

I AM really lucky. They actually offered to pay for my undergraduate when I was accepted to a school I couldn't afford but my parents turned them down. They accepted my parents' decision at the time and only told me later, when offering to help with graduate school. Since I was an adult, I could say yes or no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would STRONGLY ask you to consider why exactly you think these boys won't be prepared for college. Do they attend high school? Do they perform reasonably well? If so, they will be ready for college. Not Yale, but college.

I've seen their scores and report cards and obviously they've been over and converse with my children. They show promise and are on the cusp of being prepared for college. On current track they'll get in, but anyone can get into college. They'd be high-risk future dropouts. Further, they have no way to pay for it - I don't even know how they'd pay for a junior college.

For anyone familiar with Richard Hoggart, he and Richard Rodriguez wrote about being a "scholarship boy." Basically the need for a first-gen working class student to distance themselves from anti-education family and embrace the university. College away from home is the ticket out of the trap multiple generations of their family are caught up in.

You continue to refer to your sister and BIL as "anti-education" but haven't given any proof that they are in fact against education. I think we could put this to the group. How many of us had parents who had a lower level of educational attainment than we did?

Did every single one of us need to cut ourselves off from our families?

Both of my parents have HS diplomas. I have an MA. We are still close, and they are my biggest cheerleaders. What makes you think your nephews can't have the same?

[Anonymous]

He has no obligation to pay for their college tuition. He is already putting a roof over their heads, clothes on their back, and food in their stomach. It is the deadbeat daddy's responsibility. MYOB because this man is already going way beyond the call of duty by raising some other dude's children. Give your sister's husband some credit. You don't know what type of financial sacrifices he has already made by raising your nephews.

OP, you crossed boundaries. You owe your brother in-law and sister an apology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would STRONGLY ask you to consider why exactly you think these boys won't be prepared for college. Do they attend high school? Do they perform reasonably well? If so, they will be ready for college. Not Yale, but college.

I've seen their scores and report cards and obviously they've been over and converse with my children. They show promise and are on the cusp of being prepared for college. On current track they'll get in, but anyone can get into college. They'd be high-risk future dropouts. Further, they have no way to pay for it - I don't even know how they'd pay for a junior college.

For anyone familiar with Richard Hoggart, he and Richard Rodriguez wrote about being a "scholarship boy." Basically the need for a first-gen working class student to distance themselves from anti-education family and embrace the university. College away from home is the ticket out of the trap multiple generations of their family are caught up in.

Okay, so you think they can get into college. And you can afford to help pay for college. So why, exactly, are you so stressed out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you should back off until the kids are adults and then they can ask you for help if they want it.

Until the kids are 18, you can make offers to assist...

18 is far too late to make much of a difference.

Kids would love to go to college and get away from home and step-father. But again, the household is ignorant about how to become prepared.

You realize not every child who attends college has taken SAT prep courses or gone to math tutors, right? They STILL go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with all this. There are solid options for kids who don't have family money.

BIL actually makes decent money. I'd est. $130K per year, which is far too much for kids to get any Pell Grant, etc. funding. And they don't save, they're on tilt - leased cars, no equity in house, credit cards have been declined when we've been out.

No, they are miles away from Pell Grants, which--given how paltry Pells are and how poor you have to be to qualify for them--is a GOOD thing. Come on, OP.

$130k with four kids will likely mean pretty good financial aid, especially if there is no equity in the house.

LOL, OP knows nothing about the financial aid process.

[Anonymous]

OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.