3rd grade DD circle of friends excluded playdates

[Anonymous]

I guess the ole "it takes a village" doesn't apply to the snooty narcastitic world of DCUM.

Don't talk to me while I stare at my phone. Go back on the basement!!!

[Anonymous]

Only children can be insufferable. My children have tons of play dates over here and the only children always seem to have/cause the most problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only children can be insufferable. My children have tons of play dates over here and the only children always seem to have/cause the most problems.

Hah, we have siblings here but b/c of fertility issues they are pretty well spaced apart. Maybe used to bossing the younger one around? Though generally seems burying and perhaps spoiling other sibs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess the ole "it takes a village" doesn't apply to the snooty narcastitic world of DCUM.

Don't talk to me while I stare at my phone. Go back on the basement!!!

Yep - I don't want to entertain your little snowflake when they are supposed to be on a play date with my kids, you know, playing with their peers. Hell, I don't want to entertain MY little snowflake(s) if they have friends over. That's the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the ole "it takes a village" doesn't apply to the snooty narcastitic world of DCUM.

Don't talk to me while I stare at my phone. Go back on the basement!!!

Yep - I don't want to entertain your little snowflake when they are supposed to be on a play date with my kids, you know, playing with their peers. Hell, I don't want to entertain MY little snowflake(s) if they have friends over. That's the point.

Btw that was not OP. I prefer DD. Focus on kids but trying to sleuth what could be issue

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"Forthright with adults" sounds like a euphemism for something that could be less pleasant to the adults on the receiving end of it. Personally I love a friendly, chatty, kid but draw the line at kids who act like they are on the level of adults, "correcting" the adult, opining on plans/food/other playdate stuff, trying to run the show themselves, or not listening to instructions. Make sure your kid isn't coming across as obnoxious. I don't mean this to be attacking at all, just offering a point of view.

I am the PP who asked for an example. But the OP didn't come back on it. It could be that the kid is simply non-shy and articulate, or it could be that the kid is a big sass mouth with an attitude and the OP is either oblivious to it or thinks it's a-OK. If it's the latter, that's the answer. Kids copy each other, and parents may not want a rude kid with a poor attitude in their house interacting with their child.

Op here. This is food for thought. DD is perhaps to adult-talk prone-- she definitely feels like she can carry conversation with an adult. We are a pretty chill family, and include kids in most decisions though we do make it clear we set the rules. I guess we should teach her to keep quiet around other adults? She will just want to be part of an adult conversation, like if I am talking to DH about work she will ask about why so-so was being difficult to work with. I can imagine she interjects in other conversations at guest house.

So how do we culture this deference when we aren't there? Just telling probably won't do it because brash and very keen on justice. I don't think she is disrespectful but she will not be afraid to ask questions to someone's mom such as why they have a rule about no markers at the table or something that is different then ours.

Maybe we need to have more adult guests at our house and help her practice? Etiquette classes?

I don't think you need to teach her not to talk to adults. Teach her to always be polite, not to interrupt, and not to interject herself into a conversation that doesn't have anything to do with her. It's one thing to talk to your parents as part of a general conversation around the dinner table; it's another to butt into a conversation that your friends' parents are having. I certainly don't mind a chatty kid, as long as they aren't rude or know-it-all.

OP, I feel like you're using a lot of euphemisms to talk around this. What is "adult talk prone"?
I also think you're playing dumb a bit when you ask if you should teach her to be quiet with other adults. This can't be a real question. You should teach her manners - they are the same for everybody, children and adults. Do you butt into people's conversations out of the blue? That's disrespectful and inappropriate. Do you question someone's house rules when you visit? As in "But why can't we bring our dog to your backyard BBQ?" "But why should we take our shoes off?" Manners and civility are the same for everybody unless you're Maugli raised by animals in the forest. There is not "cultivate culture difference" here. There is "acting civilized", that's all.

Well I don't know how she is with other adults, I just know she likes to be interested in ur conversations about office politics, looking for jobs, and home renovation and costs. We don't intend to include her but she hears us talking about our day. She obviously ask us about our rules, but generally in an inquisitive way than defiance, she is actually generally obedient but may want explanation or try negotiation before complying. I wonder if she does that just with us as parents or other adults.

And honestly even as an adult, it can be tricky to navigate joining a conversation and butting in, like at any social gathering. But we definitely aren't raising kids to the 'seen but not heard' standard, so perhaps we should?

If you are proud of her potential lack of manners, then carry on. DCUM doesn't care one way or another, but you seem to be miffed about no invitations. So that's for you to ponder. Are all those friends of hers "seen not heard"? That's your answer.

Wasn't meant as a dig at 'seen not heard' just tying to make sure she isn't silenced like many girls are; I think folks are more tolerant of boys being boys and rowdy and loud. But is that the expectation for most parents of girls, that they want them to act like traditional little girls? Yes her friends are on the quiet side, now that I think about it. I'm not 'proud' if she is being rude, but can you understand we are trying to encourage her to be able to speak her mind? You know Sheryl Sandbergs 'girls are ok as bossy' message, that's where we fall on the spectrum. Is this not mainstream by now?

Stop it. No one wants to be bossed around by your 8 year old. No one wants to be questioned about their house rules by your 8 year old. No one wants to debate the pros and cons of home renovations with your 8 year old when she is supposed to be in the playroom playing with the other kids. Sheesh.

m
We came in asking if it might be us or our kid, and the consensus is that it is us and we are asking for how to navigate raising a strong DD, and asking for guidance. Why the hate?

Different PP. Lookie, there is no hate in the previous message. Maybe you like to be friends with your child and discuss adult subjects. But other children's Moms don't want to do the same. They also don't want to have a lawyerly debate about house rules, they are not up for your daughter to question and then approve or disapprove based on discussions. The play date is for play. Between children. Why someone's Mom not wanting to hang with your daughter equals hate to you? I, for one, think you and your attitude are at the core of the problem and your daughter is merely a reflection of that.

This is not about female empowerment, this is about lack of good manners and people shunning you.

[Anonymous]

No wonder OP and her DD don't get invited to parties and play dates. I wouldn't want them at my house either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess the ole "it takes a village" doesn't apply to the snooty narcastitic world of DCUM.

Don't talk to me while I stare at my phone. Go back on the basement!!!

+1

That is why we love in the world of Nannies and daycare. Paying others to raise your kids. No one will date help another child out. Too self-centered and busy to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Forthright with adults" sounds like a euphemism for something that could be less pleasant to the adults on the receiving end of it. Personally I love a friendly, chatty, kid but draw the line at kids who act like they are on the level of adults, "correcting" the adult, opining on plans/food/other playdate stuff, trying to run the show themselves, or not listening to instructions. Make sure your kid isn't coming across as obnoxious. I don't mean this to be attacking at all, just offering a point of view.

I am the PP who asked for an example. But the OP didn't come back on it. It could be that the kid is simply non-shy and articulate, or it could be that the kid is a big sass mouth with an attitude and the OP is either oblivious to it or thinks it's a-OK. If it's the latter, that's the answer. Kids copy each other, and parents may not want a rude kid with a poor attitude in their house interacting with their child.

Op here. This is food for thought. DD is perhaps to adult-talk prone-- she definitely feels like she can carry conversation with an adult. We are a pretty chill family, and include kids in most decisions though we do make it clear we set the rules. I guess we should teach her to keep quiet around other adults? She will just want to be part of an adult conversation, like if I am talking to DH about work she will ask about why so-so was being difficult to work with. I can imagine she interjects in other conversations at guest house.

So how do we culture this deference when we aren't there? Just telling probably won't do it because brash and very keen on justice. I don't think she is disrespectful but she will not be afraid to ask questions to someone's mom such as why they have a rule about no markers at the table or something that is different then ours.

Maybe we need to have more adult guests at our house and help her practice? Etiquette classes?

I don't think you need to teach her not to talk to adults. Teach her to always be polite, not to interrupt, and not to interject herself into a conversation that doesn't have anything to do with her. It's one thing to talk to your parents as part of a general conversation around the dinner table; it's another to butt into a conversation that your friends' parents are having. I certainly don't mind a chatty kid, as long as they aren't rude or know-it-all.

OP, I feel like you're using a lot of euphemisms to talk around this. What is "adult talk prone"?
I also think you're playing dumb a bit when you ask if you should teach her to be quiet with other adults. This can't be a real question. You should teach her manners - they are the same for everybody, children and adults. Do you butt into people's conversations out of the blue? That's disrespectful and inappropriate. Do you question someone's house rules when you visit? As in "But why can't we bring our dog to your backyard BBQ?" "But why should we take our shoes off?" Manners and civility are the same for everybody unless you're Maugli raised by animals in the forest. There is not "cultivate culture difference" here. There is "acting civilized", that's all.

Well I don't know how she is with other adults, I just know she likes to be interested in ur conversations about office politics, looking for jobs, and home renovation and costs. We don't intend to include her but she hears us talking about our day. She obviously ask us about our rules, but generally in an inquisitive way than defiance, she is actually generally obedient but may want explanation or try negotiation before complying. I wonder if she does that just with us as parents or other adults.

And honestly even as an adult, it can be tricky to navigate joining a conversation and butting in, like at any social gathering. But we definitely aren't raising kids to the 'seen but not heard' standard, so perhaps we should?

If you are proud of her potential lack of manners, then carry on. DCUM doesn't care one way or another, but you seem to be miffed about no invitations. So that's for you to ponder. Are all those friends of hers "seen not heard"? That's your answer.

Wasn't meant as a dig at 'seen not heard' just tying to make sure she isn't silenced like many girls are; I think folks are more tolerant of boys being boys and rowdy and loud. But is that the expectation for most parents of girls, that they want them to act like traditional little girls? Yes her friends are on the quiet side, now that I think about it. I'm not 'proud' if she is being rude, but can you understand we are trying to encourage her to be able to speak her mind? You know Sheryl Sandbergs 'girls are ok as bossy' message, that's where we fall on the spectrum. Is this not mainstream by now?

Stop it. No one wants to be bossed around by your 8 year old. No one wants to be questioned about their house rules by your 8 year old. No one wants to debate the pros and cons of home renovations with your 8 year old when she is supposed to be in the playroom playing with the other kids. Sheesh.

m
We came in asking if it might be us or our kid, and the consensus is that it is us and we are asking for how to navigate raising a strong DD, and asking for guidance. Why the hate?

Different PP. Lookie, there is no hate in the previous message. Maybe you like to be friends with your child and discuss adult subjects. But other children's Moms don't want to do the same. They also don't want to have a lawyerly debate about house rules, they are not up for your daughter to question and then approve or disapprove based on discussions. The play date is for play. Between children. Why someone's Mom not wanting to hang with your daughter equals hate to you? I, for one, think you and your attitude are at the core of the problem and your daughter is merely a reflection of that.

This is not about female empowerment, this is about lack of good manners and people shunning you.

I am not trying to be snarky, but honestly confused. When we have friends families over, the adults and kids all hangout and kids are welcome to participate (such as we might talk about the election or a funny Fallon video or recent vacations). Do most families shoo the kids off to play with each other, and keep this adult - child divide, even if some of the kids want to join in? How is wanting to participate in a conversation bad manners, just because they are a kid? Honestly curious here, I was an only child from a dysfunctional family so I may have missed the memo on raising my own kids and falling into some 'little adult' fallacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No wonder OP and her DD don't get invited to parties and play dates. I wouldn't want them at my house either.

Can you elaborate? I have insulted no one, just asked questions and talked about how my goal is to raise a strong girl but am worried that may be a bad fit in how maybe little girls are expected to behave? I honestly don't mean to offend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No wonder OP and her DD don't get invited to parties and play dates. I wouldn't want them at my house either.

Can you elaborate? I have insulted no one, just asked questions and talked about how my goal is to raise a strong girl but am worried that may be a bad fit in how maybe little girls are expected to behave? I honestly don't mean to offend.

You can't be this dense. This isn't about girl vs boy. This is about knowing WHEN this is ok to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No wonder OP and her DD don't get invited to parties and play dates. I wouldn't want them at my house either.

Can you elaborate? I have insulted no one, just asked questions and talked about how my goal is to raise a strong girl but am worried that may be a bad fit in how maybe little girls are expected to behave? I honestly don't mean to offend.

You can't be this dense. This isn't about girl vs boy. This is about knowing WHEN this is ok to do.

Please humor me I am this dense. Only child with major disfunction in family of origin. I don't want to make this about me, but all these PP are saying I'm insufferable and my DD should not be making conversation with the parents and that's part of why she may be excluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Forthright with adults" sounds like a euphemism for something that could be less pleasant to the adults on the receiving end of it. Personally I love a friendly, chatty, kid but draw the line at kids who act like they are on the level of adults, "correcting" the adult, opining on plans/food/other playdate stuff, trying to run the show themselves, or not listening to instructions. Make sure your kid isn't coming across as obnoxious. I don't mean this to be attacking at all, just offering a point of view.

I am the PP who asked for an example. But the OP didn't come back on it. It could be that the kid is simply non-shy and articulate, or it could be that the kid is a big sass mouth with an attitude and the OP is either oblivious to it or thinks it's a-OK. If it's the latter, that's the answer. Kids copy each other, and parents may not want a rude kid with a poor attitude in their house interacting with their child.

Op here. This is food for thought. DD is perhaps to adult-talk prone-- she definitely feels like she can carry conversation with an adult. We are a pretty chill family, and include kids in most decisions though we do make it clear we set the rules. I guess we should teach her to keep quiet around other adults? She will just want to be part of an adult conversation, like if I am talking to DH about work she will ask about why so-so was being difficult to work with. I can imagine she interjects in other conversations at guest house.

So how do we culture this deference when we aren't there? Just telling probably won't do it because brash and very keen on justice. I don't think she is disrespectful but she will not be afraid to ask questions to someone's mom such as why they have a rule about no markers at the table or something that is different then ours.

Maybe we need to have more adult guests at our house and help her practice? Etiquette classes?

I don't think you need to teach her not to talk to adults. Teach her to always be polite, not to interrupt, and not to interject herself into a conversation that doesn't have anything to do with her. It's one thing to talk to your parents as part of a general conversation around the dinner table; it's another to butt into a conversation that your friends' parents are having. I certainly don't mind a chatty kid, as long as they aren't rude or know-it-all.

OP, I feel like you're using a lot of euphemisms to talk around this. What is "adult talk prone"?
I also think you're playing dumb a bit when you ask if you should teach her to be quiet with other adults. This can't be a real question. You should teach her manners - they are the same for everybody, children and adults. Do you butt into people's conversations out of the blue? That's disrespectful and inappropriate. Do you question someone's house rules when you visit? As in "But why can't we bring our dog to your backyard BBQ?" "But why should we take our shoes off?" Manners and civility are the same for everybody unless you're Maugli raised by animals in the forest. There is not "cultivate culture difference" here. There is "acting civilized", that's all.

Well I don't know how she is with other adults, I just know she likes to be interested in ur conversations about office politics, looking for jobs, and home renovation and costs. We don't intend to include her but she hears us talking about our day. She obviously ask us about our rules, but generally in an inquisitive way than defiance, she is actually generally obedient but may want explanation or try negotiation before complying. I wonder if she does that just with us as parents or other adults.

And honestly even as an adult, it can be tricky to navigate joining a conversation and butting in, like at any social gathering. But we definitely aren't raising kids to the 'seen but not heard' standard, so perhaps we should?

If you are proud of her potential lack of manners, then carry on. DCUM doesn't care one way or another, but you seem to be miffed about no invitations. So that's for you to ponder. Are all those friends of hers "seen not heard"? That's your answer.

Wasn't meant as a dig at 'seen not heard' just tying to make sure she isn't silenced like many girls are; I think folks are more tolerant of boys being boys and rowdy and loud. But is that the expectation for most parents of girls, that they want them to act like traditional little girls? Yes her friends are on the quiet side, now that I think about it. I'm not 'proud' if she is being rude, but can you understand we are trying to encourage her to be able to speak her mind? You know Sheryl Sandbergs 'girls are ok as bossy' message, that's where we fall on the spectrum. Is this not mainstream by now?

Stop it. No one wants to be bossed around by your 8 year old. No one wants to be questioned about their house rules by your 8 year old. No one wants to debate the pros and cons of home renovations with your 8 year old when she is supposed to be in the playroom playing with the other kids. Sheesh.

m
We came in asking if it might be us or our kid, and the consensus is that it is us and we are asking for how to navigate raising a strong DD, and asking for guidance. Why the hate?

Different PP. Lookie, there is no hate in the previous message. Maybe you like to be friends with your child and discuss adult subjects. But other children's Moms don't want to do the same. They also don't want to have a lawyerly debate about house rules, they are not up for your daughter to question and then approve or disapprove based on discussions. The play date is for play. Between children. Why someone's Mom not wanting to hang with your daughter equals hate to you? I, for one, think you and your attitude are at the core of the problem and your daughter is merely a reflection of that.

This is not about female empowerment, this is about lack of good manners and people shunning you.

I am not trying to be snarky, but honestly confused. When we have friends families over, the adults and kids all hangout and kids are welcome to participate (such as we might talk about the election or a funny Fallon video or recent vacations). Do most families shoo the kids off to play with each other, and keep this adult - child divide, even if some of the kids want to join in? How is wanting to participate in a conversation bad manners, just because they are a kid? Honestly curious here, I was an only child from a dysfunctional family so I may have missed the memo on raising my own kids and falling into some 'little adult' fallacy.

Yes, that is exactly what happens. The adults chat, the might entertain a few moments of the kids comments but then they expect or just tell the kids to go off and play. More importantly I have never been in a situation where the kids wanted to stay and hang out for adult conversations.

Your child needs help socializing with peers. If she is going on play dates and tends to chat it up with adults it's because she is nervous about chatting with the child. She knows adults will be polite and engage her and she will have to put forth less effort because the adult does more of the work. With a kid, she will have to enagage and put forth effort and for a child not used to it or who feels they are not good at it, that can be scary and tough. Do your kid a favor and help her strengthen her social skills with peers. Invite kids over for one on one play dates and yes, do not engage with them for long before sending them off to play. You will need to do them routinely at this point to build up her confidence. Engaging socially with adults doesn't teach the kid on social skills she needs to interact with her peers. Help her learn now because it only gets harder each year.

[Anonymous]

I am not trying to be snarky, but honestly confused. When we have friends families over, the adults and kids all hangout and kids are welcome to participate (such as we might talk about the election or a funny Fallon video or recent vacations). Do most families shoo the kids off to play with each other, and keep this adult - child divide, even if some of the kids want to join in? How is wanting to participate in a conversation bad manners, just because they are a kid? Honestly curious here, I was an only child from a dysfunctional family so I may have missed the memo on raising my own kids and falling into some 'little adult' fallacy.

It's fine to have a bit of conversation between adults and kids, which we usually do if a meal is involved, or when the kids first arrive. But most of the time is spent kids playing with kids. My son is an only so he can be with adults most of the time, play dates are his time (outside of occasional times at school, camp) to hang out with kids in a unstructured environment. That's why I do them in the first place. Every now and again we will play a board game or something with the kids, but most of it is unstructured time for the kids to figure out something to do and work things out. If a child was not able to do that for most of a play date, we would probably not invite them back often, since it would defy the purpose of the play date for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am not trying to be snarky, but honestly confused. When we have friends families over, the adults and kids all hangout and kids are welcome to participate (such as we might talk about the election or a funny Fallon video or recent vacations). Do most families shoo the kids off to play with each other, and keep this adult - child divide, even if some of the kids want to join in? How is wanting to participate in a conversation bad manners, just because they are a kid? Honestly curious here, I was an only child from a dysfunctional family so I may have missed the memo on raising my own kids and falling into some 'little adult' fallacy.

It's fine to have a bit of conversation between adults and kids, which we usually do if a meal is involved, or when the kids first arrive. But most of the time is spent kids playing with kids. My son is an only so he can be with adults most of the time, play dates are his time (outside of occasional times at school, camp) to hang out with kids in a unstructured environment. That's why I do them in the first place. Every now and again we will play a board game or something with the kids, but most of it is unstructured time for the kids to figure out something to do and work things out. If a child was not able to do that for most of a play date, we would probably not invite them back often, since it would defy the purpose of the play date for us.

Expanding on this, is it possible that the friends are the ones asking their moms not to reciprocate? My DD and her friends would get frustrated with a particulalar girl who only wanted to engage with the parents on play dates, whether it was a one on one or a group. They tried to engage her and encourage her to pick the activities etc. but after a while, they stopped asking to include her. They wanted playdates to be social activities for them. It just wasn't as fun when she kept leaving to spend time with the parent. Maybe to help your DD become more comfortable, you could talk with her about different ways to stay engaged with her friends, bring over a favorite board game, a simple craft requiring no adult assistance, etc. Have you asked her if not going on lots of play dates bothers her? It may bother you more than it bothers her. Some kids are just more introverted than others, too.