Serious question for strenuous anti CIO advocates

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Wow, I never ever question why people have kids but when you aren't willing to modify your life for a baby that's been out of the womb for four weeks your priorities are fucked up and you should probably have remained childless.

She should have remained childless because she takes time to herself to poop? Mommy wars have reached a ridiculous new low!

well no, because she thinks its appropriate to allow a newborn to cry in quite a few situations because of her own wants and her reluctance to modify her life. Really, feeding into the idea that this is a norm in newborn care isn't going to help her here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Wow, I never ever question why people have kids but when you aren't willing to modify your life for a baby that's been out of the womb for four weeks your priorities are fucked up and you should probably have remained childless.

She should have remained childless because she takes time to herself to poop? Mommy wars have reached a ridiculous new low!

well no, because she thinks its appropriate to allow a newborn to cry in quite a few situations because of her own wants and her reluctance to modify her life. Really, feeding into the idea that this is a norm in newborn care isn't going to help her here.

Do you have reading comprehension problems or are you just projecting because you secretly wish you could escape your attachment parenting cult?

She lets her baby cry briefly for going to the bathroom, finishing up a shower, driving in a car, or sticking some bottles in a dish washer. You are a caricature of yourself to claim that this indicates any sort of problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Wow, I never ever question why people have kids but when you aren't willing to modify your life for a baby that's been out of the womb for four weeks your priorities are fucked up and you should probably have remained childless.

She should have remained childless because she takes time to herself to poop? Mommy wars have reached a ridiculous new low!

well no, because she thinks its appropriate to allow a newborn to cry in quite a few situations because of her own wants and her reluctance to modify her life. Really, feeding into the idea that this is a norm in newborn care isn't going to help her here.

Do you have reading comprehension problems or are you just projecting because you secretly wish you could escape your attachment parenting cult?

She lets her baby cry briefly for going to the bathroom, finishing up a shower, driving in a car, or sticking some bottles in a dish washer. You are a caricature of yourself to claim that this indicates any sort of problem.

Finishing up a shower for 20 minutes after a baby starts crying is ridiculous, anyone with an iota of sense would agree to this. I also don't identify with AP. I allow controlled crying for sleep training after a certain age. See, doesn't this rock your world, that a parent who actually believes in some forms of sleep training thinks this is neglectful bullshit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Wow, I never ever question why people have kids but when you aren't willing to modify your life for a baby that's been out of the womb for four weeks your priorities are fucked up and you should probably have remained childless.

She should have remained childless because she takes time to herself to poop? Mommy wars have reached a ridiculous new low!

well no, because she thinks its appropriate to allow a newborn to cry in quite a few situations because of her own wants and her reluctance to modify her life. Really, feeding into the idea that this is a norm in newborn care isn't going to help her here.

Do you have reading comprehension problems or are you just projecting because you secretly wish you could escape your attachment parenting cult?

She lets her baby cry briefly for going to the bathroom, finishing up a shower, driving in a car, or sticking some bottles in a dish washer. You are a caricature of yourself to claim that this indicates any sort of problem.

Finishing up a shower for 20 minutes after a baby starts crying is ridiculous, anyone with an iota of sense would agree to this. I also don't identify with AP. I allow controlled crying for sleep training after a certain age. See, doesn't this rock your world, that a parent who actually believes in some forms of sleep training thinks this is neglectful bullshit?

OP has since explained that she was not literally showering for 20 minutes ingnoring a screaming baby.

And anyway I think that if a 20 minute shower is what a new mom needed to make it through the day while the baby cries a bit, I would never criticize that. Especially if it was a colicky baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Dude, I already warned you once, DO NOT SEEK VALIDATION FROM DCUM.

[Anonymous]

I am not AP AT ALL, but sorry, I think it is weird to finish your 20 minute natural hair routine while your **4 week old** is crying outside of the shower. I don't get why OP doesn't shower when her DH gets home if she KNOWS it is going to take that long. I understand the hair thing - I did it and still do it. I have detangled my waist length natural hair for 20 minutes WHILE MY DH WAS HOME. When I had a four week old I never started anything that would take that long because of the mother's version of Murphy's law. Your peacefully sleeping newborn will ALWAYS wake up the minute you step in the shower, you know? This is why you get it and get out, not spend 20 minutes on your naturalista hair routine.

I guess what I was trying to say earlier is that OP is living in la-la land and probably needs to modify/reorder her priorities for a FEW WEEKS. Not forever.

I also think part of the reason people are responding is because the OP is clearly questioning if what she is doing is ok. If OP didn't have any doubts about what she is doing, she would not have posted.

So I'll just flat out say - no it isn't ok to leave your newborn crying (fussing is different) while you do random shit. Wash the bottles later. Have enough bottles to get through the day, and then one extra. Take a quick shower and save the extended routine for when your husband can grab the baby. If your newborn baby CRIES, pick her up, dammit. If she is fussing or grunting or doing other weird newborn stuff, finish what you are doing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I did not think the shower thing would throw everyone so much. Like I said she was right there and I dunno I like showers. Being a new mom is stressful and the shower is calming. I was talking to her I just didn't pick her up. Maybe I should have phrased this moment as 'having a difficult moment and need a second of me time so take it.' It's all kinds of things that feel like this though. Maybe they just feel like 20 minutes and are actually just moments but it's a lot.

When I'm cleaning her bottles and she's hungry and I can't juggle her and the bottles safely or when I need to eat something and she's fussy so I set her down for a few minutes to get some sustenance. When the dog has an accident or I break a glass and have to clean it up. Like the shower thing is distracting people from my real question which is what to do when life ends up keeping you busy for a few minutes essentially.

I don't know. Your description of how you prioritize your life right now seems strange. When mine were newborns (especially the first), I barely ever put her down. I ate one handed while holding her, or not until someone came home to help. I didn't shower unless my husband was home. Cleaning? Yeah right. I didn't want to leave my new baby to cry even for a minute. My world revolved around her. I've since learned some balance, but yeah - there is a reason its a running joke that new moms don't shower/have messy houses/etc. I find your indifference toward responding to the baby in favor of mundane/non-essential tasks bizarre.

Clearly I'm doing things more differently than I thought I was. I didn't think the cumulative time that she's set down for these things all that substantial. 10/20 minutes here and there, some of which she's fussy for doesn't seem like it should invalidate the other 11 hours I'm devoted to her every need. I can't imagine a mom of two or three not facing moments like this with a new newborn. I don't really view trying to maintain my mental health as non essential, nor washing the vessels from which she eats but I guess everyone's thresholds are different. I'm going to take pps advice and bow out of this thread. I think the fact that I even had this question means we probably diverge on a fundamental level. I really was curious though not trying to be clever.

If you can't accomodate your baby's needs I suggest getting help because for the first couple months all needs should be responded to pretty much on demand. If your mental health prevents you from responding it's still your responsibility to make sure those needs are met. The way you put off meeting your newborn's needs is pretty atypical from my experience. Sure, everyone has a bathroom example or finishing up showering but those aren't norms at all and usually people feel very bad about that, not justified.

Do you really think that moms with a bunch of kids close together are able to deal with their newborn instantaneously 100% of the time? In a month I will have a toddler and a newborn and sometimes I will have to take care of them by myself. I have actually heard that the toddler's needs sometimes need to come first in that kind of conflict situation. The newborn is safe, isn't going to starve, etc., and - YES THIS IS TRUE - 20 minutes of crying is not going to harm them long term.

OP on the other hand I doubt it was actually 20 minutes. One time when my kid was a little older I tried to let her cry 10 in her pack n play for naptime and I only made it to 8.

I have 3 kids. My third was a crying maniac. Basically cried nonstop. I wanted to be able to ignore it because it basically was my entire life and I really couldn't get anything done at all. But, there was something that wouldn't let me do that. I couldn't not respond to my crying infant. I think we are wired to do this from a very biological perspective. I ended up hiring someone to help out because my baby cried so much and I did need to do other things. So, I do think it is bizarre if a mother of an infant can basically ignore a crying newborn and feel ok about it. Of course the baby might cry sometimes and you physically cannot get there for some reason (like in a car stuck in traffic), but almost all of my friends report feeling the way I do when that happens (anxious, upset, etc). Not, ehh, whatever.

Nobody is suggesting that a parent not respond to a crying infant. Just that, in a world of limited resources, sometimes the baby ends up having to cry a bit and will be fine. Yes, we are wired to respond to crying babies. Good for you that you could afford help. There are plenty of colicky infants who cry NO MATTER WHAT, so this logic about, you must do whatever it takes to stop your baby from crying is a bit ridiculous. Sometimes there isn't anything that can be done.

I think you are misreading. I know babies will cry. I have lived it. They will cry and they will live. But a mother who continues on with a 20 minute leisurely shower without hurrying or getting upset is, umm, unusual. I had times when I had to shower because we had to be somewhere important. But I did it fast and I felt a lot of anxiety because my newborn was crying. I would be concerned about ppd because that is not a typical response.

This is op one last time since apparently I'm neglectful and suffering severe ppd. If you read my followup to the shower thing (which I did not time, maybe it just felt like 20 minutes) I said the reason it took so long was because I was going in and out to rock the rock and play. I find it relaxing to be well showered clean and put together. That makes me feel like a human being so I try to prioritize it, it makes me a happy mom the rest of the day. So I don't shortchange any of my normal shower habits. The image of me standing in the shower humming happily while my baby screams is completely inaccurate. I find her crying to be stressful and upsetting but I have been making a conscious effort to try to not respond to it emotionally because that WAS making me feel depressed in the beginning.

My question was essentially that there seem to be times during the day that the baby cries and I am, for whatever reason, unable to respond immediately. Maybe I'm pooping. Is that a better bathroom example? Do people who adhere to anti CIO philosophies believe these incidents are just as harmful as CIO and if so how do they combat it and if not why?

But it seems that you just modify your life a bit more than I'm willing to. My DH is at work during the day and if I needed to pull over every time she cried I would be trapped at home because it would take forever to get anywhere. Thanks to the few pps that did not assume I was a neglectful monster.

Wow, I never ever question why people have kids but when you aren't willing to modify your life for a baby that's been out of the womb for four weeks your priorities are fucked up and you should probably have remained childless.

She should have remained childless because she takes time to herself to poop? Mommy wars have reached a ridiculous new low!

well no, because she thinks its appropriate to allow a newborn to cry in quite a few situations because of her own wants and her reluctance to modify her life. Really, feeding into the idea that this is a norm in newborn care isn't going to help her here.

+1

[Anonymous]

Well OP, DCUM has spoken: you must remain cloistered in your house, unshowered, and without relieving yourself while your child is awake until she is 3 years old.

[Anonymous]

Yikes. Most of the time reading DCUM makes me feel like I'm living in crazy town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well OP, DCUM has spoken: you must remain cloistered in your house, unshowered, and without relieving yourself while your child is awake until she is 3 years old.

Right. That is exactly what everyone here is saying. Not that a new parent needs to make some adjustments to their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs. Because that would just be crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well OP, DCUM has spoken: you must remain cloistered in your house, unshowered, and without relieving yourself while your child is awake until she is 3 years old.

Right. That is exactly what everyone here is saying. Not that a new parent needs to make some adjustments to their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs. Because that would just be crazy.

And if you actually read the OP instead of getting of on guit tripping new mothers, you would see that you're making a ridiculous factual and logical leap. Taking a shower and going for a drive hardly amount to neglectful parenting and a refusal to "accommodate" a newborn, whatever that means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so I have a four week old. No intention of trying to have her CIO at night right now at all, in fact the opposite I'm trying to reasons to her every cry but I guess I've come to wonder about day to day life.

So babies don't have object permanence so need you to reasons otherwise baby is negatively effected but I feel like there are times it's happening that I can't avoid. It's made me legit wonder how you all manage it.

For example when we're driving somewhere and she freaks out and we're in traffic. She cried for a half hour straight the other day and I couldn't do anything. Or the other day I was in the shower and she started crying when I had shampoo in my hair. Took me 20 minutes to get clean and dry and get her. I have been wondering about whether or not we will sleep train at 4/5 months and feel like these types of incidents are prepping the baby to deal with gradual crying episodes. I dunno I have been conflicted on this issue but my real life experience the past few weeks is making me wonder what the difference is between these things that are happening now inadvertently and what that would be in a few months.

I know there are tons of pages of responses but I just wanted to respond to this as someone who has had 3 babies w/ very different personalities.

I do not think you can "prep" a baby to deal with CIO at this young age. However, you can do things to minimize the chance that you will NEED to do CIO. One of these things is letting your child be by herself for longer and longer stretches when she is calm and happy. Another is always responding to her cries as quickly as possible to give her a feeling of security. This will lead to quicker settling and less crying later on. Now would be a good time to read a book about baby sleep to come up with some more techniques, if this is something that concerns you.

Continue going places and taking showers and taking care of yourself. But responding to your baby quickly and calmly-- and if you need those extra minutes in the shower to respond calmly, take them!-- will help her sleep better later on, not worse.

[Anonymous]

CIO works very well as a sleep training method (emphasizing that part) for some babies who are developmentally able to soothe themselves. For some babies, its the only thing that works. It's not teaching them that no one will come when they cry because the other 99% of the time that they cry someone is responding. It's also not long term - you sleep train and that's that they don't continue to cry for every nap and every bedtime for the rest of their childhood.

Sorry, pet peeve. CIO is the only thing that worked for one of our kids and until we did it we were all miserable. After we did it, he was a happier baby and we were happier too. He's now a very well adjusted 8 year old.

It also has nothing to do with a baby crying in the car or while you are in the shower. It also shouldn't take you 20 minutes to rinse out your hair and dry off. Given that it's a 4 WEEK old you should be responding to crying - that may mean talking and soothing them until you are able to physically get them but that shouldn't take 20 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well OP, DCUM has spoken: you must remain cloistered in your house, unshowered, and without relieving yourself while your child is awake until she is 3 years old.

Right. That is exactly what everyone here is saying. Not that a new parent needs to make some adjustments to their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs. Because that would just be crazy.

And if you actually read the OP instead of getting of on guit tripping new mothers, you would see that you're making a ridiculous factual and logical leap. Taking a shower and going for a drive hardly amount to neglectful parenting and a refusal to "accommodate" a newborn, whatever that means.

Are you high? It is making a ridiculous factual leap to say that parents need to adjust their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs? (and since you seem to need a dictionary...accommodate="To take into consideration or make adjustments for; allow for")

It is the PP that is making a factual leap by stating that the people who are questioning the OP's actions are telling her that she must stay in her house, never shower, never use the bathroom, etc. while their child is awake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well OP, DCUM has spoken: you must remain cloistered in your house, unshowered, and without relieving yourself while your child is awake until she is 3 years old.

Right. That is exactly what everyone here is saying. Not that a new parent needs to make some adjustments to their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs. Because that would just be crazy.

And if you actually read the OP instead of getting of on guit tripping new mothers, you would see that you're making a ridiculous factual and logical leap. Taking a shower and going for a drive hardly amount to neglectful parenting and a refusal to "accommodate" a newborn, whatever that means.

Are you high? It is making a ridiculous factual leap to say that parents need to adjust their schedule to accommodate a newborn's needs? (and since you seem to need a dictionary...accommodate="To take into consideration or make adjustments for; allow for")

It is the PP that is making a factual leap by stating that the people who are questioning the OP's actions are telling her that she must stay in her house, never shower, never use the bathroom, etc. while their child is awake.

It is a ridiculous factual leap to infer that taking an extra few minutes in the shower or leaving the house means that someone has not otherwisr modified their life and schedule dramatically to accommodate a newborn.