Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What? How did you jump to this conclusion?
How can I hate the poor White kids who are already abused at home by their own parents? It is not there fault that they are in a culture that totally marginalizes them.

Now, as for your suggestion to check out DCPS, I have a two comments.

First of all, there is a racial smugness in your statement that is very telling. Since it is mostly blacks students in not highly rated DCPS, your implication is that it is not a function of socio-economic conditions but rather race. As a spectator to the worsening race relations between blacks and whites, I am constantly amazed that there is not even a pretense to hide the racism.

Secondly, if one lives in MD or VA, one does not send their kids to DCPS.

I don't think that you're a spectator as much as you think that you are a spectator. As I'm sure you know, race relations are not a black/white issue in the US. And it's not just white people who have racist beliefs and attitudes towards non-immigrant African-Americans or black people in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Almost all cultures in the world are "we" cultures. That's not unique to Asia. The US is probably the "I"-est culture in the world, by a lot.

I know the US culture is supposed to be very individualistic, but at the same time, it places a high value on volunteering and helping others with no recompense. US parents volunteer at school, they run scout troops, sports teams, Odyssey of the Mind, music and theatre groups: all without any pay. Not to mention the time they spend running food and clothing drives for the poor. They just freely give hours and hours of their time.

Parents who grew up in other countries frequently tell me that no one does this in their countries and they would prefer not to do it here. They just don't see the point of helping others for no pay.

Why is it that the people from the "I" country are so willing to do so much for the "we"?

And then you have women crying for help in public and no one bothers to help or you have many homeless people on the street and hardly anyone bothers to help etc. These will not happen in most other countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've got mixed Asian/White kids, live in a community with lots of Asians, and I've had a good long look behind the facade.

They are expected to get jobs that pay well and have higher status, and are strongly discouraged from pursuing studies in other fields, even if it's their dream.

If they don't do well, they're not just letting themselves down, they're letting the whole family down, including generations of ancestors. And they will shame their parents, because they'll make them look bad to the community. They'll shame their community to outsiders. Is that enough pressure?

Parents do say commonly things like, "Only an A minus? What happened? Why not an A?" and the kids say those things to each other and to themselves. I've heard it plenty.

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

Yes, there are a lot of success stories. What you will not be allowed to see, because outward appearances mean everything, are the casualties. I've heard lots of stories and witnessed lots of misery and dysfunction. You want to study BPD, get deep into some Asian communities. It's rampant.

And you say that because you are Asian? Or you have done research like the one OP linked to? No?

I see a lot of White moms and kids in my neighborhood. The kids are perpetually neglected. They come to my house and eat like they have been starving - why are the parents not feeding them? They are never doing homework and they are disruptive in classrooms - why do their parents not care? They speak in an insolent tone with their parents - because they recognize that the parents are worthless. I know that they are the most messed up group of kids. White kids live with the uncertainty of unstable families and self-obsessed parents. They see their moms trying to be cougar moms and not paying attention to the kids needs. Their homes do not function in a way a home should. They pack crap food for their kids for lunch. Their kids are obsessed with sex at a young age and the parents encourage that behavior. How many Asian-American kids get pregnant at high school? How many White girls get pregnant? There you have it.

Asian kids have at least a moral compass that they can feel shame for bad behavior. White kids are narcissistic and emotionally damaged. We do not have to hear stories of the dysfunction of the white families. We see it on TV.

Want to see a White kid pimp slapping his mom - here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9BEsJPGTYI

And this is not a rarity. This is the essence of the relationship between the White kids and their parents.

I know because I am an expert on these things. I have heard stories and watched behind the facade of White families.

You should check out DCPS if you hate the whites

I don't think PP was hating on whites. The post just made observations in light of the similar post(s) making general observations of Asians which is often and common in this forum to make a point.

Thank you.

You are exactly right. Every week or so, we have the same circular arguments that goes something like this ---- Asian children do well so they must be terribly unhappy. Their parents must be abusing them and forcing them to study. The children are socially awkward because 1) they are not allowed TV time 2) They are not allowed to play on video games 3) they must work hard and do well in school 4) they are not allowed to mix with other kids....

People are making generalizations and stereotyping Asians, but react when others generalize and stereotype them in return.

I have seen White people become Tiger parents in sports, in cheerleading, in dance, in beauty competitions. Yes, every culture value something different. Asians value academic achievement. If that is not something that you do not value, why should you even care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Almost all cultures in the world are "we" cultures. That's not unique to Asia. The US is probably the "I"-est culture in the world, by a lot.

I know the US culture is supposed to be very individualistic, but at the same time, it places a high value on volunteering and helping others with no recompense. US parents volunteer at school, they run scout troops, sports teams, Odyssey of the Mind, music and theatre groups: all without any pay. Not to mention the time they spend running food and clothing drives for the poor. They just freely give hours and hours of their time.

Parents who grew up in other countries frequently tell me that no one does this in their countries and they would prefer not to do it here. They just don't see the point of helping others for no pay.

Why is it that the people from the "I" country are so willing to do so much for the "we"?

And then you have women crying for help in public and no one bothers to help or you have many homeless people on the street and hardly anyone bothers to help etc. These will not happen in most other countries.

Actually most countries have lots of homeless people, especially poorer countries. I saw them everywhere when I was backpacking in Europe too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Almost all cultures in the world are "we" cultures. That's not unique to Asia. The US is probably the "I"-est culture in the world, by a lot.

I know the US culture is supposed to be very individualistic, but at the same time, it places a high value on volunteering and helping others with no recompense. US parents volunteer at school, they run scout troops, sports teams, Odyssey of the Mind, music and theatre groups: all without any pay. Not to mention the time they spend running food and clothing drives for the poor. They just freely give hours and hours of their time.

Parents who grew up in other countries frequently tell me that no one does this in their countries and they would prefer not to do it here. They just don't see the point of helping others for no pay.

Why is it that the people from the "I" country are so willing to do so much for the "we"?

There have probably been about a billion books written about this question, starting with Alexis de Tocqueville's book Democracy in America, published in 1835-1840.

Nonetheless, volunteerism doesn't negate the fact that American culture is extremely individualistic, compared to most of the rest of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And then you have women crying for help in public and no one bothers to help or you have many homeless people on the street and hardly anyone bothers to help etc. These will not happen in most other countries.

Say what? No homeless people in other countries? No homeless people in Asia? No homeless people in South Asia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Almost all cultures in the world are "we" cultures. That's not unique to Asia. The US is probably the "I"-est culture in the world, by a lot.

I know the US culture is supposed to be very individualistic, but at the same time, it places a high value on volunteering and helping others with no recompense. US parents volunteer at school, they run scout troops, sports teams, Odyssey of the Mind, music and theatre groups: all without any pay. Not to mention the time they spend running food and clothing drives for the poor. They just freely give hours and hours of their time.

Parents who grew up in other countries frequently tell me that no one does this in their countries and they would prefer not to do it here. They just don't see the point of helping others for no pay.

Why is it that the people from the "I" country are so willing to do so much for the "we"?

There have probably been about a billion books written about this question, starting with Alexis de Tocqueville's book Democracy in America, published in 1835-1840.

Nonetheless, volunteerism doesn't negate the fact that American culture is extremely individualistic, compared to most of the rest of the world.

Perhaps other countries are more conforming. I wonder if they are still that way as a "We" culture with the influx of immigration to their countries similar to the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That said, most Asian parents are not abusive and are a positive influence. And I think many non-Asian parents are a weird combination of permissive and helicopterish, which can be a detriment.

I think the bolded is spot on.

I'm Korean. My parents didn't push me into any type of career. I chose my own career and what college I went to. They certainly had their opinions, which they freely shared. But, I always told them, it's my life.. I have to live it, not you. I know, pretty daring for a Korean to tell off one's parents. IDK, maybe my parents were anomalies, but if I think back, many of my Korean friends also had parents like mine - the parents didn't push their kids so much.

Many children of immigrants, whether from Asia, Europe or Africa, do better in school because they see that their parents gave up so much to come here, and if you were poor, then your parents stressed to you that to get out of poverty, you need a good education and a college degree. Even if the parents are working two jobs, and can't help you with HW because they don't speak the language, they will still ask you if you finished your HW. I think this is an immigrant experience.

I went to parties, dances... a lot when I was in HS. They were ok with it because I got good grades and really never got into trouble. I'm sure if I was a terrible student, always getting into trouble, they would've given me hell.

The second generation of these immigrant children are very different. I see my nieces and nephews (all second generation), and they've never seen their parents struggle the way we have, so their experiences and views are totally different. Still, they all value education because my siblings stressed that to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Almost all cultures in the world are "we" cultures. That's not unique to Asia. The US is probably the "I"-est culture in the world, by a lot.

I know the US culture is supposed to be very individualistic, but at the same time, it places a high value on volunteering and helping others with no recompense. US parents volunteer at school, they run scout troops, sports teams, Odyssey of the Mind, music and theatre groups: all without any pay. Not to mention the time they spend running food and clothing drives for the poor. They just freely give hours and hours of their time.

Parents who grew up in other countries frequently tell me that no one does this in their countries and they would prefer not to do it here. They just don't see the point of helping others for no pay.

Why is it that the people from the "I" country are so willing to do so much for the "we"?

There have probably been about a billion books written about this question, starting with Alexis de Tocqueville's book Democracy in America, published in 1835-1840.

Nonetheless, volunteerism doesn't negate the fact that American culture is extremely individualistic, compared to most of the rest of the world.

Yes, the US culture is individualistic, but at the same time, so willing to help people outside their own families. A church in my area has collected enough money over the years to build several communities of houses, a medical clinic, and a school in Haiti and sent people there to work as volunteers a couple times each year. Many people raised in the US "I" culture are willing to donate much time and money to those in need.

I'm just curious as to why the "I" culture values helping others without pay while people I have met from other cultures look at me as though I am crazy when I describe the hours of work I have put in without pay. They just don't understand why I would do things for people outside my family for free and have told me that they would not consider doing the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Then why don't Asians do anything for charity, to help others, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Then why don't Asians do anything for charity, to help others, etc.

Yep. I actually think I would change the Asian culture to a "family culture" and American culture to an I culture.

[Anonymous]

Really limited view of "success" on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Then why don't Asians do anything for charity, to help others, etc.

PP you are responding too. I do not know. I do believe Americans are much more generous than Asians. Wealth in Asian people/countries is relatively new thing. Maybe being poor is deeply rooted in their psych that giving doesn't come easy (yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different cultures - Asian cultures are "we" cultures; American culture is "I" based culture. Not saying one is better than the other, they are just different.

Then why don't Asians do anything for charity, to help others, etc.

PP you are responding too. I do not know. I do believe Americans are much more generous than Asians. Wealth in Asian people/countries is relatively new thing. Maybe being poor is deeply rooted in their psych that giving doesn't come easy (yet).

Asians are relatively not as well-off as whites in general. Also, many Asians give to churches and these churches engage in extensive charitable/missionary work. Although, capitalism is based on "greed" so whites tend to be the most greedy/exploitative people in general.

[Anonymous]

I honestly find threads like this worthless. You have Asians who act like they are the only ones who value academic achievement. You have whites who resent academic accomplishments by Asians. And you have both Asians and whites pointing to Asian academic achievement when their actual intent is simply to insult blacks and Hispanics. It is time to step up and recognize that all students deserve our attention and support, and that fetishizing Asians is having unlikely to advance that goal.