Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

The authors of “The Success Frame and Achievement Paradox: The Costs and Consequences for Asian Americans” are Min Zhou, professor of sociology and Asian American Studies at the Univ. of California at Los Angeles, currently on leave at Nanyang Technological University, and Jennifer Lee, professor of sociology at the Univ. of California at Irvine.

A better way to understand Asian American academic success, they write, is to look at families who don’t have resources and succeed nonetheless. That is exactly what they’ve done.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/?postshare=2521440741636692

[Anonymous]

Not tiger moms? That answer is not acceptable.

[Anonymous]

OP- can you provide a summary of the article?

[Anonymous]

And the answer is . . .

[Anonymous]

I have not read the article but what I have observed is that there is an emphasis on education, the need to excel and the incentive dangled before children that if they do well they can enjoy the fruits of their efforts with an affluent lifestyle.

I have not come across a first generation Asian/Indian family that gives a fig about kids pursuing their "passion" - unless that passion is one that has the potential for a promising career.

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

[Anonymous]

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

However, they are probably less stressed? At least, the ones I know. As far as "successful professionals", it is my observation that having a Tiger Mom may result in being a better student--and, getting into a "better" college--but it does not necessarily result in a "successful professional". Some of these kids do not understand how to get along in the workplace. Example: they may be good in engineering classes--but when it comes to being a successful engineer, one must work out real life problems in real life time with real life people. Management positions are sometimes very difficult for them. The next generation does much better at this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

However, they are probably less stressed? At least, the ones I know. As far as "successful professionals", it is my observation that having a Tiger Mom may result in being a better student--and, getting into a "better" college--but it does not necessarily result in a "successful professional". Some of these kids do not understand how to get along in the workplace. Example: they may be good in engineering classes--but when it comes to being a successful engineer, one must work out real life problems in real life time with real life people. Management positions are sometimes very difficult for them. The next generation does much better at this.

Lots of first generation Indians who are at the helm or in very senior positions in major companies in the US. So I don't know about management positions being difficult for these individuals. But that certainly was the line that was fed in the 70s' when one had Indian engineers who were always said to have the technical skills but not the leadership skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the article but what I have observed is that there is an emphasis on education, the need to excel and the incentive dangled before children that if they do well they can enjoy the fruits of their efforts with an affluent lifestyle.

I have not come across a first generation Asian/Indian family that gives a fig about kids pursuing their "passion" - unless that passion is one that has the potential for a promising career.

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

This has been my family, on both sides, for generations- before and after coming to the US from what is now called UK and Germany. Emphasis of education has been key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the article but what I have observed is that there is an emphasis on education, the need to excel and the incentive dangled before children that if they do well they can enjoy the fruits of their efforts with an affluent lifestyle.

I have not come across a first generation Asian/Indian family that gives a fig about kids pursuing their "passion" - unless that passion is one that has the potential for a promising career.

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

Consider actually reading the article. Here it is again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/?postshare=2521440741636692

By the way, the study group was Chinese American and Vietnamese American communities in Los Angeles. I doubt that is representative of Asian-Americans in the US as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The authors of “The Success Frame and Achievement Paradox: The Costs and Consequences for Asian Americans” are Min Zhou, professor of sociology and Asian American Studies at the Univ. of California at Los Angeles, currently on leave at Nanyang Technological University, and Jennifer Lee, professor of sociology at the Univ. of California at Irvine.

A better way to understand Asian American academic success, they write, is to look at families who don’t have resources and succeed nonetheless. That is exactly what they’ve done.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/?postshare=2521440741636692

Here is the abstract:

The status attainment model highlights the role of family socioeconomic status (SES) in the intergenerational reproduction of educational attainment; however, the model falls short in predicting the educational outcomes of the children of Asian immigrants, whose attainment exceeds that which would have been predicted based on family SES alone. On the other hand, the cultural capital model gives primacy to the role of middle-class cultural capital in reproducing advantage, but neglects contextual factors outside the family. We fill a theoretical and empirical niche by introducing a model of cultural frames to explain how the children of immigrants whose families exhibit low SES and lack middle-class cultural capital attain exceptional educational outcomes. Based on in-depth interviews with adult children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants randomly drawn from the survey of Immigration and Intergenerational Mobility in Metropolitan Los Angeles, we show that Chinese and Vietnamese immigrant parents and their children use ethnicity as a resource to construct and support a strict “success frame” that helps the poor and working class override their disadvantages. However, there are unintended consequences to adopting such a strict success frame: those who do not meet its exacting tenets feel like ethnic outliers, and as a result, they distance themselves from coethnics and from their ethnic identities because they link achievement with ethnicity. We conclude by underscoring the benefits of decoupling race/ethnicity and achievement for all groups.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12552-014-9112-7

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the article but what I have observed is that there is an emphasis on education, the need to excel and the incentive dangled before children that if they do well they can enjoy the fruits of their efforts with an affluent lifestyle.

I have not come across a first generation Asian/Indian family that gives a fig about kids pursuing their "passion" - unless that passion is one that has the potential for a promising career.

It does not always succeed but it often does ....... the second generation tends to follow the American way of raising kids when it comes to education and the end results are not as successful in terms of kids who end up as successful professionals.

Consider actually reading the article. Here it is again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/08/forget-tiger-moms-asian-american-students-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/?postshare=2521440741636692

By the way, the study group was Chinese American and Vietnamese American communities in Los Angeles. I doubt that is representative of Asian-Americans in the US as a whole.

Yes, I was just going to mention that.

[Anonymous]

Asian mom here.

It is very interesting to see the influence the peer group of other Asian-American children on your own child. High achievement and lofty goals are celebrated and looked up to within the community of these children. My child went to magnet program in HS. She is fairly bright, but was not very focused. Being around kids who were discussing their career goals and trying to excel made a big difference to her and she began to value it too.

When we wanted to tell her the same things it would not go down well. So, we stopped. When she went to the magnet HS and had a really hardworking and focussed peer group...her attitude changed and she was able to set goals and work towards it.

[Anonymous]

This is not a tiger mom?

From article:

They (parents) also make sure their kids get plenty of supplementary help such as tutoring.

These families have incredibly high standards, according to the study. If kids come home with a 3.5 grade-point average, parents are disappointed that it’s not 4.0 — and they show it.

If a child gets into, say, Cal State, the question is why they didn’t make it into Stanford.

If a son or daughter comes home and settles for a bachelor’s degree, they’re made to feel less accomplished because they don’t have a PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And the answer is . . .

That the community provides many role models for high achievements. People know who to ask for guidance for getting the best schools, tutoring etc within the community because it is visible and easily accessible. This holds true for even parents with limited education and means.

And finally, Asian American kids do not measure their success against other groups. They compare their success against other Asians.

My own daughter (Indian American) one day jokingly explained to me that she works hard because - "I am an A-sian, so I need to get an A. If I get a B, I will become a B-sian"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the answer is . . .

That the community provides many role models for high achievements. People know who to ask for guidance for getting the best schools, tutoring etc within the community because it is visible and easily accessible. This holds true for even parents with limited education and means.

And finally, Asian American kids do not measure their success against other groups. They compare their success against other Asians.

My own daughter (Indian American) one day jokingly explained to me that she works hard because - "I am an A-sian, so I need to get an A. If I get a B, I will become a B-sian"

Defined as Chinese-Americans and Vietnamese-Americans in Los Angeles.