Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to college with a lot of Asian kids whose parents were tiger parents. 10 years later, they are successful and normal. They are not unhappy or bad at their jobs or having social problems. They are successful in their careers and doing great.

Those of you who are assuming kids whose parents expect more of them are going to be miserable maybe need to check your assumptions. Do you feel these kids are going to be miserable because that is what you have seen or because you want some sort of consolation prize for not being/having tiger parents?

My neighborhood is primarily Asian. The kids are miserable, they say it all the time. They don't like to spend all their summer in academic camps, no one likes to be forced to play an instrument. Kids are playing outside and the parents come and drag their crying kid to Kumon. I'm sorry, but so many Asian kids are unhappy and it shows. Now, I'm talking about children, not adults. My guess is that once they are "free" of their parents, as adults, they are probably a lot happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to college with a lot of Asian kids whose parents were tiger parents. 10 years later, they are successful and normal. They are not unhappy or bad at their jobs or having social problems. They are successful in their careers and doing great.

Those of you who are assuming kids whose parents expect more of them are going to be miserable maybe need to check your assumptions. Do you feel these kids are going to be miserable because that is what you have seen or because you want some sort of consolation prize for not being/having tiger parents?

My neighborhood is primarily Asian. The kids are miserable, they say it all the time. They don't like to spend all their summer in academic camps, no one likes to be forced to play an instrument. Kids are playing outside and the parents come and drag their crying kid to Kumon. I'm sorry, but so many Asian kids are unhappy and it shows. Now, I'm talking about children, not adults. My guess is that once they are "free" of their parents, as adults, they are probably a lot happier.

Believe this if you wish and I accept your sincerity when you say it. Here is the reality:

Yes, some Asian children resent that they cannot indulge in some of the more fun things that non-Asian kids do. But down the line they come to appreciate the focus on studies that their parents imbued in them not always willingly on the part of the kids.

I have three children who went through this very same process and, yes, there were times when they did not want to have to spend their time studying, etc. Today, two are physicians and one has a senior executive position with a major company after completing her MBA at a top five school. Ask them today and they will tell you, without reservation, that a good part of the reason they are where they are is because we emphasized education as being of paramount importance.

Perhaps the real proof that they have come to believe that our approach works is that two of the three who have children are using substantially the same approach in raising their children - and this is not because we have chosen to influence them in any way. In fact, we tell them that we raised them the best way we knew and it is now for them to figure out how they want to raise their children.

This myth about unhappy, maladjusted children is as far-fetched as the one about Asians not having leadership abilities and are merely technicians who follow orders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian/Indian parents will continue to raise their children the way we have been doing - and we will do so because it WORKS.

You can go on decrying it until the cows come home but it will not make any difference to us. When we see proven results that another method works better, we will be all ears.

Have you ever noticed Asian parents are hardly ever critical of non-Asian parents approach to education? We are perfectly happy leaving it to them to do what they think works for them. It is invariably non-Asian parents - mainly white parents - who focus on the ills of Asian parenting when it comes to education.

It works at some things. It doesn't work at other things. Just like everything else.

I do have a question, though. I am white. There are a lot of kids with Chinese parents at my kids' schools. There are a lot of kids with South Asian parents at my kids' schools. As far as I can tell, they are separate groups. If you (yourself, personally) are a Chinese parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the South Asian parents? If you (yourself, personally) are a South Asian parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as a belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the Chinese parents? As far as I can tell, from the outside, the Chinese parents and the South Asian parents are separate groups.

[Anonymous]

The correct (and non-PC answer) is that it probably has a lot to do with genes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a tiger mom?

From article:

They (parents) also make sure their kids get plenty of supplementary help such as tutoring.

These families have incredibly high standards, according to the study. If kids come home with a 3.5 grade-point average, parents are disappointed that it’s not 4.0 — and they show it.

If a child gets into, say, Cal State, the question is why they didn’t make it into Stanford.

If a son or daughter comes home and settles for a bachelor’s degree, they’re made to feel less accomplished because they don’t have a PhD.

Exactly! I read the article and it screamed tiger parents. They are why Asian kids excel is school and at unhappiness.

Yes, yes. You are right. So, I would suggest you continue to not force your kids to excel in school. Your kids are so lucky that you are a cool parent and not a tiger parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It works at some things. It doesn't work at other things. Just like everything else.

I do have a question, though. I am white. There are a lot of kids with Chinese parents at my kids' schools. There are a lot of kids with South Asian parents at my kids' schools. As far as I can tell, they are separate groups. If you (yourself, personally) are a Chinese parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the South Asian parents? If you (yourself, personally) are a South Asian parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as a belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the Chinese parents? As far as I can tell, from the outside, the Chinese parents and the South Asian parents are separate groups.

Well, of course Indian and Chinese parents are separate groups, just like Blacks and Whites are separate groups. We are racially, culturally, linguistically and geographically different. However, what is common is that our family and social structures and values are the same. Another aspect is that in US, we are interacting with each other as Asians and we are seen by Americans as being Asian and somewhat similar. That would never have been possible in India or China. In US, we face the same bamboo ceilings, the same struggles, and adhere to the same ideals of family...so the distinctions get blurred.

The parallel I would like to draw between Blacks and Whites in America is that while there are many differences between the two group - there are also certain similarities between the two groups - culture, love of sports, common cuisine, popular culture, affluence, common life experiences, common language etc...so when a Black American and a White American person goes to another part of the world - they are seen as American. The distinctions are blurred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Asian parents are very critical of non-Asian parents and this even came out in the article some. The fact that they only measure themselves against Asians is one.

Yes, but that is because of "Tiger Math".

[Anonymous]

We've got mixed Asian/White kids, live in a community with lots of Asians, and I've had a good long look behind the facade.

They are expected to get jobs that pay well and have higher status, and are strongly discouraged from pursuing studies in other fields, even if it's their dream.

If they don't do well, they're not just letting themselves down, they're letting the whole family down, including generations of ancestors. And they will shame their parents, because they'll make them look bad to the community. They'll shame their community to outsiders. Is that enough pressure?

Parents do say commonly things like, "Only an A minus? What happened? Why not an A?" and the kids say those things to each other and to themselves. I've heard it plenty.

Shame. Shame is a big one. If you haven't been raised in a shaming culture, you won't get how powerful it is. You're invalidated and shamed for everything you do and feel, and who you feel you are, if it does not agree with the elders' ideas of who you should be, what you should do, and how you're supposed to feel. And the shame has no boundaries. Your shame as a child is heaped on your parents and family.

Yes, there are a lot of success stories. What you will not be allowed to see, because outward appearances mean everything, are the casualties. I've heard lots of stories and witnessed lots of misery and dysfunction. You want to study BPD, get deep into some Asian communities. It's rampant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, of course Indian and Chinese parents are separate groups, just like Blacks and Whites are separate groups. We are racially, culturally, linguistically and geographically different. However, what is common is that our family and social structures and values are the same. Another aspect is that in US, we are interacting with each other as Asians and we are seen by Americans as being Asian and somewhat similar. That would never have been possible in India or China. In US, we face the same bamboo ceilings, the same struggles, and adhere to the same ideals of family...so the distinctions get blurred.

.

The same ideals of family, among people from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, China, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, Philippines, Thailand, Taiwan...? Wow. How culturally homogeneous Asia apparently is.

[Anonymous]

Asians, based on my experience, tend to take the long view. As one high achieving Asian said to me, no one walks around in adulthood taking out pictures of themselves at age 5 to show to others. By this I think she meant that our lives as children are silly when compared to the longer stretch of adulthood. Study hard and work hard now and laugh later throughout adulthood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, of course Indian and Chinese parents are separate groups, just like Blacks and Whites are separate groups. We are racially, culturally, linguistically and geographically different. However, what is common is that our family and social structures and values are the same. Another aspect is that in US, we are interacting with each other as Asians and we are seen by Americans as being Asian and somewhat similar. That would never have been possible in India or China. In US, we face the same bamboo ceilings, the same struggles, and adhere to the same ideals of family...so the distinctions get blurred.
.

Not in my experience as a white person. In my experience, "Asian" = Chinese, and people from India are "Indians", not "Asians".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It works at some things. It doesn't work at other things. Just like everything else.

I do have a question, though. I am white. There are a lot of kids with Chinese parents at my kids' schools. There are a lot of kids with South Asian parents at my kids' schools. As far as I can tell, they are separate groups. If you (yourself, personally) are a Chinese parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the South Asian parents? If you (yourself, personally) are a South Asian parent, do you (yourself, personally) think of yourself as a belonging to the "Asian parent" group with the Chinese parents? As far as I can tell, from the outside, the Chinese parents and the South Asian parents are separate groups.

Well, of course Indian and Chinese parents are separate groups, just like Blacks and Whites are separate groups. We are racially, culturally, linguistically and geographically different. However, what is common is that our family and social structures and values are the same. Another aspect is that in US, we are interacting with each other as Asians and we are seen by Americans as being Asian and somewhat similar. That would never have been possible in India or China. In US, we face the same bamboo ceilings, the same struggles, and adhere to the same ideals of family...so the distinctions get blurred.

The parallel I would like to draw between Blacks and Whites in America is that while there are many differences between the two group - there are also certain similarities between the two groups - culture, love of sports, common cuisine, popular culture, affluence, common life experiences, common language etc...so when a Black American and a White American person goes to another part of the world - they are seen as American. The distinctions are blurred.

Uh ... no. East Asians have actually faced significant discrimination in the U.S., including institutionalized racism. Not so with Indians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asians, based on my experience, tend to take the long view. As one high achieving Asian said to me, no one walks around in adulthood taking out pictures of themselves at age 5 to show to others. By this I think she meant that our lives as children are silly when compared to the longer stretch of adulthood. Study hard and work hard now and laugh later throughout adulthood.

In my experience, adulthood is hard. Cancer/ALS/heart attacks/kids with SN/aging parents.

Your HS AP Chem teacher is not holding your hair back when your puking due to chemo, your HS fiends or that kid you met at camp or the fellow field hockey player... that is who is there for you.

To some people jobs and money are important ... to others it is people and relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians, based on my experience, tend to take the long view. As one high achieving Asian said to me, no one walks around in adulthood taking out pictures of themselves at age 5 to show to others. By this I think she meant that our lives as children are silly when compared to the longer stretch of adulthood. Study hard and work hard now and laugh later throughout adulthood.

In my experience, adulthood is hard. Cancer/ALS/heart attacks/kids with SN/aging parents.

Your HS AP Chem teacher is not holding your hair back when your puking due to chemo, your HS fiends or that kid you met at camp or the fellow field hockey player... that is who is there for you.

To some people jobs and money are important ... to others it is people and relationships.

Huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians, based on my experience, tend to take the long view. As one high achieving Asian said to me, no one walks around in adulthood taking out pictures of themselves at age 5 to show to others. By this I think she meant that our lives as children are silly when compared to the longer stretch of adulthood. Study hard and work hard now and laugh later throughout adulthood.

In my experience, adulthood is hard. Cancer/ALS/heart attacks/kids with SN/aging parents.

Your HS AP Chem teacher is not holding your hair back when your puking due to chemo, your HS fiends or that kid you met at camp or the fellow field hockey player... that is who is there for you.

To some people jobs and money are important ... to others it is people and relationships.

Uh... Ok...