About to switch to private and about to lose some friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

Not OP here, but I will offer that the above argument is just a hypothesis, and I think a very incorrect one.

If you don't use the public school, you continue to pay tax dollars into it while not using up a spot for your child. So the tiny incremental effect of your decision on the school is to increase the amount of resources available per attending child.

Meanwhile, you are contributing much more $ to education, by paying for private, than you would be if you attended public. This increases the total amount of local resources spent on education. It increases teacher demand relative to supply, and exerts small incremental upward pressure on teacher compensation.

By leaving public you are not "withdrawing all of your resources," as you continue to pay tax dollars toward education. You would actually be withdrawing more resources if you withdrew from private.

No doubt there are room for different analyses of all the factors, but the automatic assumption that people who withdraw public for private are somehow hurting the public schools is in my opinion based on a very incomplete and incorrect picture of the actual effects of that decision. They shouldn't be blamed anyway if it's the right decision for them -- it's irrational to expect otherwise -- but given how dubious the case is the negative judgments are wildly out of place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

OP here. Yes the political argument does trouble me a little. It is a classic "tragedy of the commons," i.e. a case where every individual acting rationally adds up to an outcome that is contrary to the best interests of the group. However, I simply can't make a choice that is worse for my child in the interest of the group. Part of me is truly sorry about that. In the meantime, I have been active in the kids' PTA in public elementary and I have put in a lot of volunteer effort making the school better at this level. It will have to be someone else's turn for middle and high school.

[Anonymous]

OP again. To echo what some other posters have said, I have experienced both public and private as a kid, and in my case the private was just so much better that it felt unfair to me. I knew so many kids from my old public school who would have thrived and absolutely loved my private school, but who didn't have the chance and instead were bored and frustrated in my old school. What's past is past and I can't know if that would be the case for my kid too, today. But I carry with me that knowledge of how good (and bad) school can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To echo what some other posters have said, I have experienced both public and private as a kid, and in my case the private was just so much better that it felt unfair to me. I knew so many kids from my old public school who would have thrived and absolutely loved my private school, but who didn't have the chance and instead were bored and frustrated in my old school. What's past is past and I can't know if that would be the case for my kid too, today. But I carry with me that knowledge of how good (and bad) school can be.

Hi OP,
I have no dog in this fight and am still trying to figure out what to do for my DC. Can I ask where you went to school and what the biggest differences were for you between public and private? What makes the price tag worth it for you? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I am not the OP, but we did both public and private. The main benefit of public is the cost. But that can be shaded different ways. If you live in the "best" public school district you are getting a better education than someone in the worst, usually. But living in those districts can be very expensive (Arlington, Bethesda etc). And there are also bad private schools. But if you were to compare directly, equally ranked schools, then I would say that private is more inspiring and in depth, simply because the classes are smaller, the teacher can pay more attention to each student, and they are not bound by testing, common core, and other ideas that are placed randomly upon the school system. Publics overall have less control. Privates have to answer to the students and parents in a much more direct way. If it is not working, students will leave. Parents expect something for their tuition after all. But few people really dive in and out of the system and each child only goes through a grade once. So it is difficult to judge whether that child would have done the same in a different environment. Whether it is worth the money to each person is a function of how much money they have. For some it is a big sacrifice, and for others its just another expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

Not OP here, but I will offer that the above argument is just a hypothesis, and I think a very incorrect one.

If you don't use the public school, you continue to pay tax dollars into it while not using up a spot for your child. So the tiny incremental effect of your decision on the school is to increase the amount of resources available per attending child.

Meanwhile, you are contributing much more $ to education, by paying for private, than you would be if you attended public. This increases the total amount of local resources spent on education. It increases teacher demand relative to supply, and exerts small incremental upward pressure on teacher compensation.

By leaving public you are not "withdrawing all of your resources," as you continue to pay tax dollars toward education. You would actually be withdrawing more resources if you withdrew from private.

No doubt there are room for different analyses of all the factors, but the automatic assumption that people who withdraw public for private are somehow hurting the public schools is in my opinion based on a very incomplete and incorrect picture of the actual effects of that decision. They shouldn't be blamed anyway if it's the right decision for them -- it's irrational to expect otherwise -- but given how dubious the case is the negative judgments are wildly out of place.

+1. It is akin to saying that middle/ upper class people who live in the neighborhood and don't have kids at all are disinvesting in the public schools. People sending their kids to private school is a tiny group nationwide, that is certainly not even close to being a factor in the problems of our struggling system of public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

OP here. Yes the political argument does trouble me a little. It is a classic "tragedy of the commons," i.e. a case where every individual acting rationally adds up to an outcome that is contrary to the best interests of the group. However, I simply can't make a choice that is worse for my child in the interest of the group. Part of me is truly sorry about that. In the meantime, I have been active in the kids' PTA in public elementary and I have put in a lot of volunteer effort making the school better at this level. It will have to be someone else's turn for middle and high school.

I don't think the tragedy of the commons metaphor works in this case, which make the argument that free access and unrestricted demand for a finite resource ultimately reduces the resource through over-exploitation because each individual is motivated to maximize use of the resource to the point in which they become reliant on it, while the costs of the exploitation are borne by everyone else. Many people who do not have children in public schools ( or don't children at all) support the public school system by paying taxes, voting for bonds, electing school board members, etc. These individuals support the resource without using it at all, which is not what the tragedy of the commons illustrates.

[Anonymous]

Sending your kid to private I not a tragedy of the commons. You must have a very high opinion of yourself and your kid. The public schools are saying thank you! One less kid in a crowded classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

OP here. Yes the political argument does trouble me a little. It is a classic "tragedy of the commons," i.e. a case where every individual acting rationally adds up to an outcome that is contrary to the best interests of the group. However, I simply can't make a choice that is worse for my child in the interest of the group. Part of me is truly sorry about that. In the meantime, I have been active in the kids' PTA in public elementary and I have put in a lot of volunteer effort making the school better at this level. It will have to be someone else's turn for middle and high school.

I don't think the tragedy of the commons metaphor works in this case, which make the argument that free access and unrestricted demand for a finite resource ultimately reduces the resource through over-exploitation because each individual is motivated to maximize use of the resource to the point in which they become reliant on it, while the costs of the exploitation are borne by everyone else. Many people who do not have children in public schools ( or don't children at all) support the public school system by paying taxes, voting for bonds, electing school board members, etc. These individuals support the resource without using it at all, which is not what the tragedy of the commons illustrates.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I can't believe it but I'm back.

So people read it as an insult to their own parenting if I put my kid in private? Would I offend people if I moved to a neighborhood different than the one they chose or bought a different car? It seems like unless people are unsure of their own decisions they should not be offended. If they really think their school is better they should pity me for throwing away my money on something so ill informed right? I don't hear pity though, I hear hostility.

OP, how do you feel about the political argument. By leaving public you are withdrawing all of your resources, and you are one small piece in a larger trend that creates public school disinvested (because they aren't a priority to the middle class and wealthy parents who don't use the schools) with an overrepresentation of kids who need more resources to succeed?

OP here. Yes the political argument does trouble me a little. It is a classic "tragedy of the commons," i.e. a case where every individual acting rationally adds up to an outcome that is contrary to the best interests of the group. However, I simply can't make a choice that is worse for my child in the interest of the group. Part of me is truly sorry about that. In the meantime, I have been active in the kids' PTA in public elementary and I have put in a lot of volunteer effort making the school better at this level. It will have to be someone else's turn for middle and high school.

I don't think the tragedy of the commons metaphor works in this case, which make the argument that free access and unrestricted demand for a finite resource ultimately reduces the resource through over-exploitation because each individual is motivated to maximize use of the resource to the point in which they become reliant on it, while the costs of the exploitation are borne by everyone else. Many people who do not have children in public schools ( or don't children at all) support the public school system by paying taxes, voting for bonds, electing school board members, etc. These individuals support the resource without using it at all, which is not what the tragedy of the commons illustrates.

Interesting, thank you. So it sounds like it's not a tragedy of the commons. Maybe the phrase I was looking for was vicious circle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sending your kid to private I not a tragedy of the commons. You must have a very high opinion of yourself and your kid. The public schools are saying thank you! One less kid in a crowded classroom.

No I promise I don't. I was responding to posters arguing that schools are in decline partially because affluent parents choose not to send their children there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To echo what some other posters have said, I have experienced both public and private as a kid, and in my case the private was just so much better that it felt unfair to me. I knew so many kids from my old public school who would have thrived and absolutely loved my private school, but who didn't have the chance and instead were bored and frustrated in my old school. What's past is past and I can't know if that would be the case for my kid too, today. But I carry with me that knowledge of how good (and bad) school can be.

Hi OP,
I have no dog in this fight and am still trying to figure out what to do for my DC. Can I ask where you went to school and what the biggest differences were for you between public and private? What makes the price tag worth it for you? Thanks!

Well this was a long time ago. But here was what stood out to me: much smaller classes, so there was a lot of discussion and every student had to participate; more interesting elective classes; lots of writing in every class; everyone had to be on a school team (even if intramural), take art, take music, and take a foreign language; community service trips into the community with the school; extraordinary college counseling (they made it extremely easy to apply to college); lots of school spirit; required chapel (I like this, others may not); lots of informal opportunities to dress up, speak with adults, and make presentations, so these things were second nature by the time you reach college and the job market.

[Anonymous]

To add: it was not in the DC area but I believe it was similar to the kinds of schools people call the Big 3 here.

[Anonymous]

I have the perspective of attending a public elementary school probably similar to South Arlington and going on to a private middle school and high school on scholarship. I remember kids asking why I was leaving and that they felt it was a rejection of them that I was going to "a smart school". A had a very rough time as a teacher's pet, new kid in school etc. and although things had settled down by the end of elementary school I was not looking forward to starting the process over in middle school. I honestly just wanted to get my work done and be left alone. For me, private school was a blessing. While I credit my public elementary school with providing the foundation, private school help me come into my own. Wanting to do well in school wasn't one of the things that separated me from the other kids at my new school. I was exposed to various sports and community service . I attended religious services once a week. I had study hall/free periods to get homework done. It wasn't perfect. I don't know that the education was so superior to the honors/GT track at my public school. It was just that for my personality, it was a better fit.

For my kids, anyone that is a close friend knows why I moved my kids from one of the best public elementary schools. They were there when I was wondering is it just my kid that has X happening with this teacher, the meetings at the school, the worry about what we were going to do etc. If anything my experiences have made me cynical about the whole if only people stayed and fought the good fight. It isn't enough to stay, you have to have the time to take on the school ...which is difficult if you work full-time and have your kids involved in activities, and have homework , volunteer at the school and have to work with an underlying issue that may involve other services. You also have to be savvy about how to influence school officials ..how do you find the people sympathetic to your situation or with a similar situation, how do you use social media to get out the word/publicize the issue(s) effectively. It's almost like you need to have lobbyist and media skills because Jane Smith individual parent upset about X goes nowhere. Even if there are 20 people with the same concern, unless they band together, work together, and potentially have it publicized...it goes nowhere. So bottom line is at least for my kids, I have the door open that they may go to public school for high school and will say it didn't work out but I wish that it had. I haven't lost any friends over it but it is harder for my kids to keep up with their old friends.

[Anonymous]

We are in Arlington and are switching our children to private school next year. I was very involved in the school. I gave a lot of my time, I went to bat for the most vulnerable in our community, I helped raised a lot of money for the school and we also gave a lot of money over the years.

I don't want to give too many details, but I was not only shut out but I was hurt very badly by a couple of women on the "executive board" of the PTA I considered my friends after they found out we were leaving the school. I honestly have never been hurt so badly by anyone in my life.

I was also shut out by the administration- specifically the principal. It was all so incredibly unprofessional and I lost pretty much every ounce of respect I had for her.

All that said, I have a lot of friends at the school who have been nothing but supportive. I am incredibly grateful for them.

The bottom line is that haters gonna hate. Nothing you can do about that...