Moms of sons - do you guide your son to be respectful of girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I disagree that many "nice guys" would have sex with a passed out or falling down drunk girl and not know that that is an incredibly messed up thing to do. No *Most* guys would never, ever do that and *Most* guys want consent.

Some people think that girls who have had alcohol are immediately rendered unable to consent. That is a far more controversial take.

Yes, somehow we've decided that women who have had too much to drink are basically children and not responsible for their actions where sex is involved. (Although still responsible for all their other actions, such as if they get behind the wheel of a car.) Whereas men who have had too much to drink are expected to make good decisions about sex both for themselves AND for the drunk woman they are with. Because men should be in charge, I guess? What bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two teens-one boy and one girl. The girls are by far the more sexually aggressive and show far less respect than the boys from what I am seeing and what I am hearing from other parents. I think it is too easy to fall into the "poor helpless girl" and "disrespectful boy" mantra that we may have witnessed or experienced as teens but that is by no means universal into days society.

Well....the thing is that we DO have a problem with men and sexual entitlement.

Have you heard about the study where college and high school boys were asked if they had ever raped anyone? The boys were all "OMG OF COURSE NOT, THAT IS WRONG, I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" But when the questions were re-worded to ask if they had ever pressured a girl for sex, had sex with a girl who was passed out (this is a huge problem, actually), and so forth, the answers changed quite a bit. Our "society" problem is that people think that men can't be taught not to rape, and that's simply not true.

Unless physical force or threats of physical harm are used, "pressuring" someone to have sex does not make you a rapist. It might make you an asshole, but it does not make you a rapist.

(I'm a woman FWIW.)

Well, I think you could be right in some circumstances and wrong in others. The pressuring thing fits in a gray area, in my opinion.

You ignored the other things that were written...guys thinking that "having sex" (let's call it what it really is, though, which is raping) passed out women. When I was in college, this would happen a lot. And yes, I would encourage (beg even) my daughter to not drink to that excess. BUt that doesn't change the reality that a lot of guys don't even view this as rape, and they need to be taught NOT to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I disagree that many "nice guys" would have sex with a passed out or falling down drunk girl and not know that that is an incredibly messed up thing to do. No *Most* guys would never, ever do that and *Most* guys want consent.

Some people think that girls who have had alcohol are immediately rendered unable to consent. That is a far more controversial take.

Yes, somehow we've decided that women who have had too much to drink are basically children and not responsible for their actions where sex is involved. (Although still responsible for all their other actions, such as if they get behind the wheel of a car.) Whereas men who have had too much to drink are expected to make good decisions about sex both for themselves AND for the drunk woman they are with. Because men should be in charge, I guess? What bullshit.

I think the people who are talking about too much to drink are not talking about women who are buzzed or even drunk, but are actually falling down drunk or passed out. It is a common thing, I promise you. All you have to do is read up on fraternities...there is this information all over the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I disagree that many "nice guys" would have sex with a passed out or falling down drunk girl and not know that that is an incredibly messed up thing to do. No *Most* guys would never, ever do that and *Most* guys want consent.

Some people think that girls who have had alcohol are immediately rendered unable to consent. That is a far more controversial take.

I agree that MOST guys wouldn't do this. But there are enough that don't truly know about consent that it's absolutely concerning. And yes, a lot of the guys who do this are the ones that are considered "nice boys from a good family" and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two teens-one boy and one girl. The girls are by far the more sexually aggressive and show far less respect than the boys from what I am seeing and what I am hearing from other parents. I think it is too easy to fall into the "poor helpless girl" and "disrespectful boy" mantra that we may have witnessed or experienced as teens but that is by no means universal into days society.

Well....the thing is that we DO have a problem with men and sexual entitlement.

Have you heard about the study where college and high school boys were asked if they had ever raped anyone? The boys were all "OMG OF COURSE NOT, THAT IS WRONG, I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" But when the questions were re-worded to ask if they had ever pressured a girl for sex, had sex with a girl who was passed out (this is a huge problem, actually), and so forth, the answers changed quite a bit. Our "society" problem is that people think that men can't be taught not to rape, and that's simply not true.

Unless physical force or threats of physical harm are used, "pressuring" someone to have sex does not make you a rapist. It might make you an asshole, but it does not make you a rapist.

(I'm a woman FWIW.)

Well, I think you could be right in some circumstances and wrong in others. The pressuring thing fits in a gray area, in my opinion.

You ignored the other things that were written...guys thinking that "having sex" (let's call it what it really is, though, which is raping) passed out women. When I was in college, this would happen a lot. And yes, I would encourage (beg even) my daughter to not drink to that excess. BUt that doesn't change the reality that a lot of guys don't even view this as rape, and they need to be taught NOT to do this.

If a woman is free and able to get up and walk out, what is gray about it?

I did not ignore the other things that were written. Having sex with someone who is passed out is rape, period.

[Anonymous]

I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I hope you teach your son how to deal with aggressive girls. Many girls think they just have to pick a boy and that boy will be in to them. When the boy is not attracted to the girl, things can go down hill quickly. By your response, you seem to think males are animals with no control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two teens-one boy and one girl. The girls are by far the more sexually aggressive and show far less respect than the boys from what I am seeing and what I am hearing from other parents. I think it is too easy to fall into the "poor helpless girl" and "disrespectful boy" mantra that we may have witnessed or experienced as teens but that is by no means universal into days society.

Well....the thing is that we DO have a problem with men and sexual entitlement.

Have you heard about the study where college and high school boys were asked if they had ever raped anyone? The boys were all "OMG OF COURSE NOT, THAT IS WRONG, I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" But when the questions were re-worded to ask if they had ever pressured a girl for sex, had sex with a girl who was passed out (this is a huge problem, actually), and so forth, the answers changed quite a bit. Our "society" problem is that people think that men can't be taught not to rape, and that's simply not true.

Unless physical force or threats of physical harm are used, "pressuring" someone to have sex does not make you a rapist. It might make you an asshole, but it does not make you a rapist.

(I'm a woman FWIW.)

Well, I think you could be right in some circumstances and wrong in others. The pressuring thing fits in a gray area, in my opinion.

You ignored the other things that were written...guys thinking that "having sex" (let's call it what it really is, though, which is raping) passed out women. When I was in college, this would happen a lot. And yes, I would encourage (beg even) my daughter to not drink to that excess. BUt that doesn't change the reality that a lot of guys don't even view this as rape, and they need to be taught NOT to do this.

If a woman is free and able to get up and walk out, what is gray about it?

I did not ignore the other things that were written. Having sex with someone who is passed out is rape, period.

It would be rape if the person who pressured was in a position of power. Or made threats that if she didn't have sex then [fill in theblank] would happen. Just to name a couple. I'm really not trying to be a jerk about this, but I do hope people understand that while a person may be able to literally walk out of a room, there are situations that make this more complex, thus the gray area. But I do agree with you that not ALL pressuring constitutes rape. I just think it's important not to dismiss the stories of women who have been pressured and felt that they honestly can't get out of having sex or there will be ugly (for them) consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I hope you teach your son how to deal with aggressive girls. Many girls think they just have to pick a boy and that boy will be in to them. When the boy is not attracted to the girl, things can go down hill quickly. By your response, you seem to think males are animals with no control.

LOL, naaah, I don't think men are animals without control. The opposite, actually. I think men should have so much control that they shouldn't use "she was dressed so sexy she was asking for it" as an excuse for example. And of course I will treat my son how to deal with aggressive girls! I don't think all women are angels by any means, just as I don't think all men are animals.

But you are putting words in my post that I didn't say. Here is what I said: "I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent..."

If you want to read into this as me being a man hating monster, then go at it. *shrug*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I disagree that many "nice guys" would have sex with a passed out or falling down drunk girl and not know that that is an incredibly messed up thing to do. No *Most* guys would never, ever do that and *Most* guys want consent.

Some people think that girls who have had alcohol are immediately rendered unable to consent. That is a far more controversial take.

I agree that MOST guys wouldn't do this. But there are enough that don't truly know about consent that it's absolutely concerning. And yes, a lot of the guys who do this are the ones that are considered "nice boys from a good family" and so forth.

Boys who would do that are not "nice", it doesn't matter how fab their family is. A man that feels that he is entitled to a woman's body whether she's passed out or not is NOT a nice guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a son and a daughter. And while I certainly teach them BOTH to be respectful of EVERYONE, I do plan on spending some extra time and energy with my son and teaching not only respect, but about consent, what to do if a girl is passed out (you would be amazed at how many "nice guys" think the answer is "fuck her" and not realize this is rape), what to do when his *friends* are being disrespectful and so forth.

Too many parents think treating and training their sons and daughters identically in this regard is the way to go, fair, etc, but becaues I know so many women who have been sexually assaulted by boys/guys they know, there certainly is a problem in our culture, and I want to be part of the solution, so hell yeah, I will be teaching my son about respecting girls.

I disagree that many "nice guys" would have sex with a passed out or falling down drunk girl and not know that that is an incredibly messed up thing to do. No *Most* guys would never, ever do that and *Most* guys want consent.

Some people think that girls who have had alcohol are immediately rendered unable to consent. That is a far more controversial take.

I agree that MOST guys wouldn't do this. But there are enough that don't truly know about consent that it's absolutely concerning. And yes, a lot of the guys who do this are the ones that are considered "nice boys from a good family" and so forth.

Boys who would do that are not "nice", it doesn't matter how fab their family is. A man that feels that he is entitled to a woman's body whether she's passed out or not is NOT a nice guy.

I agree with you, and that is why I put "nice" in scare quotes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach all of my kids to be respectful of everyone. Why are girls special?

+1,000,000

Because gender is a thing that people get very specific messages about and "respect everyone" pablum may not teach people enough to recognize these messages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two teens-one boy and one girl. The girls are by far the more sexually aggressive and show far less respect than the boys from what I am seeing and what I am hearing from other parents. I think it is too easy to fall into the "poor helpless girl" and "disrespectful boy" mantra that we may have witnessed or experienced as teens but that is by no means universal into days society.

Well....the thing is that we DO have a problem with men and sexual entitlement.

Have you heard about the study where college and high school boys were asked if they had ever raped anyone? The boys were all "OMG OF COURSE NOT, THAT IS WRONG, I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" But when the questions were re-worded to ask if they had ever pressured a girl for sex, had sex with a girl who was passed out (this is a huge problem, actually), and so forth, the answers changed quite a bit. Our "society" problem is that people think that men can't be taught not to rape, and that's simply not true.

Unless physical force or threats of physical harm are used, "pressuring" someone to have sex does not make you a rapist. It might make you an asshole, but it does not make you a rapist.

Totally agree. I was a victim of rape in college, and this whole recent "consent" discussion disturbs me. If you have been raped, you know you have been raped. If a man rapes, he knows he raped. It's such insanity, IMO, that there's this idea that rape is somehow something more subtle.

I've been pressured to have sex lots of times in my life. Sometimes I gave in, sometimes I didnt. Sometimes I regretted giving in, sometimes I didn't. Sometimes I has sex when I was drunk in college (and he was too). The next day was an "ugh...". But never ever would i consider any of it rape. I know rape and that's not it.

(I'm a woman FWIW.)

[Anonymous]

I genuinely feel like this is one of my biggest responsibilities as a mom to a son.

He's still small (3 years old), but body boundaries are already something he can learn. If he says "no more tickle" I demand that everyone honor that, because I need him to understand that as he grows up, he needs to honor that for others as well.

We'll get to how to treat girls as he gets older, but I really feel this is a critical and that I can have an impact in how this future man treats women.

[Anonymous]

This is not being made up that men don't think rape is rape. Here are some links that explain this better than I can.

http://www.newsweek.com/campus-rapists-and-semantics-297463

"Nearly one-third of college men admit they might rape a woman if they could get away with it, a new study on campus sexual assault claims. Of those men, however, far fewer will admit this if the word rape is actually used during the course of questioning."

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/01/lots-of-men-dont-think-rape-is-rape.html

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/01/11/3610327/college-men-forcible-sex-study/

[Anonymous]