Moms of sons - do you guide your son to be respectful of girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

I think that thinking with one's genitals is a general human characteristic, not limited to people with penises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

Yep. But apparently we're supposed to think that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves. Talk about man-hating.

Right? The weirdo who keeps posting false accusations this and false accusations that seems to really hate boys. It's creepy, weird and boy hating. I, for one, will be giving my sons more credit. Yeah, you're horny, kid, I get it. But you still have to know when to not stick your penis in someone. Apparently thinking that boys can and do control themselves mean you are clueless, when really, it's the other way around.

Stop the boy hating posts that makes them like animals, please and thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. But apparently we're supposed to think that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves. Talk about man-hating.

It's not that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves -- it's that they're so stupid and helpless that we shouldn't expect them to be able to figure out when somebody they want to have sex with actually wants to have sex with them (and is legally able to consent to do so). Plus, also, women be crazy. And so therefore we should stop talking about consent and go back to the good old days of defining rape as that thing that happens when a stranger jumps out of the bushes and uses overpowering violence to put his penis into the vagina of a virtuous and modestly-dressed woman who had a societally-approved reason to be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

Yep. But apparently we're supposed to think that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves. Talk about man-hating.

Right? The weirdo who keeps posting false accusations this and false accusations that seems to really hate boys. It's creepy, weird and boy hating. I, for one, will be giving my sons more credit. Yeah, you're horny, kid, I get it. But you still have to know when to not stick your penis in someone. Apparently thinking that boys can and do control themselves mean you are clueless, when really, it's the other way around.

Stop the boy hating posts that makes them like animals, please and thank you!

some of as actually know women who have made false accusations and ruined people's lives. It is as big a deal as rape.

[Anonymous]

The good old days!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. But apparently we're supposed to think that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves. Talk about man-hating.

It's not that boys are so stupid and helpless that they can't control themselves -- it's that they're so stupid and helpless that we shouldn't expect them to be able to figure out when somebody they want to have sex with actually wants to have sex with them (and is legally able to consent to do so). Plus, also, women be crazy. And so therefore we should stop talking about consent and go back to the good old days of defining rape as that thing that happens when a stranger jumps out of the bushes and uses overpowering violence to put his penis into the vagina of a virtuous and modestly-dressed woman who had a societally-approved reason to be there.

This is to you.

Anonymous wrote:The good old days!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
some of as actually know women who have made false accusations and ruined people's lives. It is as big a deal as rape.

Again, nobody has said that there is no such thing as false accusations. I myself personally know a woman who made a false accusation (and didn't ruin anybody's life).

However, if you want to minimize rape, here is a good way to go about it: keep saying that false accusations about rape are just as big a problem (if not bigger) than rapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:please. throughout this whole discussion every time someone tried to talk about false rape accusations being a real issue it was quickly brushed aside. When asked to define what consent could consist of and how to prove it that was quickly brushed aside too.

Not everyone has time on DCUM to sift through 22 pages to find one instance. However it is pretty clear. If you want to talk about rape you have to admit that there is a growing problem of false rape accusations and it is not clear cut as "not giving consent".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/06/02/why-do-high-profile-campus-rape-stories-keep-falling-apart/?hpid=z3

If you were to ask an average person today to name a prominent story about rape on college campuses, odds are pretty good that among the top four or five replies would be the Duke lacrosse case, the Rolling Stone cover story about Jackie and the University of Virginia, Columbia University “mattress girl” Emma Sulkowicz and one of the stories from “The Hunting Ground.” Yet in all of these stories, either the accusations were later shown to be a complete fabrication or at least serious questions were raised about them.

Each time a new high-profile story falls apart, a larger portion of the public becomes less likely to believe the next one. (It would be nice to think that we’d evaluate these stories on their own merits. But that isn’t how we tend to process contentious issues.) The anti-campus rape activists often claim that false accusations of sexual assault are practically nonexistent. (“Anti-campus rape activists” is a necessary but admittedly clumsy term. Every sane person is obviously opposed to campus rape. And even among activists who have made campus rape their issue, there is dissent and disagreement about strategy, priorities and reform.) But that so many of the accusations that they themselves have chosen as emblems of the cause have been proved false or debatable suggests that they’re either wrong about the frequency of false accusations or that the movement itself has had some extraordinarily bad luck.

Calculating the frequency of false rape accusations is even more difficult than studying the frequency of rape. Consequently, the researchers and activists who have tried have put this figure all over the map, from a fraction of a percent to as high as 40 percent. My own hunch is that they’re much more common than “almost never,” which activists claim, but nowhere nearly as common as their apparent occurrence in these high-profile cases. So why do anti-campus rape activists keep shooting themselves in the foot? Something else must be at play.


this isn’t an argument that college students (and anti-rape activists in particular) never get raped. Nor is it an argument that accusations should never be believed. Nor is it an argument that rape victims should be ashamed to come forward. It’s only to say that generally speaking, an alleged victim eager to generate publicity about what happened to her may require more verification than an alleged victim who is reluctant to come forward. All else being equal, reluctant witnesses are more persuasive than eager ones. (Of course, all else is rarely equal.)

Finally, it may be that activists deliberately seek out and champion the ambiguous cases to demonstrate their commitment to the cause

But the “believe every accuser” approach to this issue is proving to be destructive to both goals. It’s obviously destructive to the men who have been wrongly accused and whose reputations and lives have been ruined. But it’s also destructive to actual victims of sexual assault. Every high-profile story that crumbles under scrutiny reinforces the perception that false accusations are common. And that only makes it more difficult to hold the real assailants accountable.

Beautifully articulated. Thank you for posting this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When did women become so fragile that some guy trying to talk his way into her pants is rape? Are we do emotionally weak that we cannot say no? Are you willing to make the same claims of rape when the girl is the aggressor and trying to talk her way into dome guy's pants? Without a doubt rape is abhorrent, be we are so clouding the line of what is rape that we are making it meaningless.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What I object to is the assumption that just if mothers teach their sons to respect women, the issue of rape will disappear. The truth is MOST MEN WILL NOT DREAM OF RAPING WOMEN. Its a subset of evil people, no matter how much you teach them to respect the other person, who will commit evil crimes.

When it comes to rape, the whole issue why people are focusing on this teach your son to respect women is due to a supposed epidemic of rape. So that's why we are talking about false rape accusations because we are pointing out is unfair to assume all men are evil people out to rape women, and that currently the whole climate of rape has warped what rape actually is..leading to every contact being suddenly sexual assault.

You keep talking about don't have sexual contact with a person without their consent. We're pointing out to you that it is hard to prove consent even when there was consent. This is a serious issue that can derail a young man's life. So yes we take false accusations of rape seriously. Just as we take a rape victim seriously. In this current climate there are victims on both sides.

The issue of rape, or actual rapes? I don't care if the issue of rape disappears or doesn't disappear. I do care if rape disappears. That would be great.

However, as you say, mothers (or fathers) teaching their sons to respect women will not eliminate rape. Everybody teaching everybody about the importance of affirmative consent (not just no means no, but also yes means yes) will also not eliminate rape. Will it reduce rape, though? Yes. Will it reduce the ability of people who want to rape to get away with rape? Yes. Those are two very worthwhile goals, in my opinion. Do you agree?

Also, I am not a police officer, prosecutor, defense attorney, judge, university dean, or relative of a person who is the subject of a rape accusation I believe to be false. (Are you?) So I am not very interested in legal/administrative standards for proving consent, after the fact. I am much more interested in people only having sexual contact with consenting partners.

Yes, as you've stated over and over and over... no one here is suggesting men have sex with non-consenting partners (i.e. rape) , so I'm not quite sure why you're still harping on this? And if someone has suggested such a thing, please cite it here (to use one of your constant refrains). Everyone is quite clear on what rape is, thanks. But it seems you are not clear on what rape is not.

You can preach about men not having sex with women who don't consent until you're blue in the face. No one is arguing against that at all. But what you don't (or won't) admit is that there is also another side of the coin that women are responsible for, and that's: do not consent to having sex and then decide later that you really weren't consenting and that the consensual sex you enjoyed is now, in your view, "rape". Don't do this. This is wrong. Would you agree? And is this something you would tell your daughters? Because if not, then there's really nothing further to discuss with you. There are two sides to every story, and your constant parroting about "consent" is beyond tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

Exactly why should he have said no? She's there explicitly announcing her enthusiastic consent, he takes her up on her offer, they have sex, and then seh accuses him of raping her. Why should he have said no? This thread is ridiculous. I agree with the PP who asked, "who made you the rape arbiter?" Here's yet another case where there was CLEAR CONSENT, and yet the man is still being accused of rape. Get a grip on yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
some of as actually know women who have made false accusations and ruined people's lives. It is as big a deal as rape.

Again, nobody has said that there is no such thing as false accusations. I myself personally know a woman who made a false accusation (and didn't ruin anybody's life).

However, if you want to minimize rape, here is a good way to go about it: keep saying that false accusations about rape are just as big a problem (if not bigger) than rapes.

This is where you lose me. It's not either or. We can acknowledge rape is a serious matter. We can also acknowledge false accusations of rape is a growing issue. Acknowledgement of one does not minimize the other. In fact stridently denying one issue is having the counter effect of people starting to not believe rape claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

Exactly why should he have said no? She's there explicitly announcing her enthusiastic consent, he takes her up on her offer, they have sex, and then seh accuses him of raping her. Why should he have said no? This thread is ridiculous. I agree with the PP who asked, "who made you the rape arbiter?" Here's yet another case where there was CLEAR CONSENT, and yet the man is still being accused of rape. Get a grip on yourself.

Exactly. If we had said girl shows up at guys room drunk, she should not have done so. She deserved it. I would be called victim blaming. Double standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

I think that thinking with one's genitals is a general human characteristic, not limited to people with penises.

I disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. As I said, reminds me of the college athletic down the dorm hall whose ex girlfriend showed up in lingerie, seduced him then accused him of non consensual sex. He had no recourse.

Ex- girlfriend showing up in lingerie ... boy should have said no.

But then again boys too often lead with their penis and this is a prime example.

I think that thinking with one's genitals is a general human characteristic, not limited to people with penises.

I disagree.

Well, of course you do. You think men and boys are the root of all evil in the world and if they were born with a penis, then it follows they will grow up to be rapists. You seriously do need help.