Moms of sons - do you guide your son to be respectful of girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
some of as actually know women who have made false accusations and ruined people's lives. It is as big a deal as rape.

Again, nobody has said that there is no such thing as false accusations. I myself personally know a woman who made a false accusation (and didn't ruin anybody's life).

However, if you want to minimize rape, here is a good way to go about it: keep saying that false accusations about rape are just as big a problem (if not bigger) than rapes.

They both ruin lives, so yes one is not worse than the other.

[Anonymous]

But the “believe every accuser” approach to this issue is proving to be destructive to both goals. It’s obviously destructive to the men who have been wrongly accused and whose reputations and lives have been ruined. But it’s also destructive to actual victims of sexual assault. Every high-profile story that crumbles under scrutiny reinforces the perception that false accusations are common. And that only makes it more difficult to hold the real assailants accountable.


Beautifully articulated. Thank you for posting this.
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. + 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/11/03/sexual-harassment-policy-that-nearly-ruined-life/hY3XrZrOdXjvX2SSvuciPN/story.html&sa=U&ei=XxZzVdOIIYjboASP0IKQDw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEZgWSTM-4TwarrPMKT0iMmbeFxRQ

www.ryot.org/innocent-men-accused-of-rape-college-campuses/715573

personalliberty.com/college-effectively-ends-students-career-reminded-rape-victim-attacker/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/05/01/students-accused-sexual-assault-struggle-win-gender-bias-lawsuits

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/11/03/sexual-harassment-policy-that-nearly-ruined-life/hY3XrZrOdXjvX2SSvuciPN/story.html&sa=U&ei=XxZzVdOIIYjboASP0IKQDw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEZgWSTM-4TwarrPMKT0iMmbeFxRQ

www.ryot.org/innocent-men-accused-of-rape-college-campuses/715573

personalliberty.com/college-effectively-ends-students-career-reminded-rape-victim-attacker/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/05/01/students-accused-sexual-assault-struggle-win-gender-bias-lawsuits

I almost couldn't read through these examples, they were so disgusting. Thank you for posting them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/11/03/sexual-harassment-policy-that-nearly-ruined-life/hY3XrZrOdXjvX2SSvuciPN/story.html&sa=U&ei=XxZzVdOIIYjboASP0IKQDw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEZgWSTM-4TwarrPMKT0iMmbeFxRQ

www.ryot.org/innocent-men-accused-of-rape-college-campuses/715573

personalliberty.com/college-effectively-ends-students-career-reminded-rape-victim-attacker/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/05/01/students-accused-sexual-assault-struggle-win-gender-bias-lawsuits

I don't think an article by somebody about his very own (high-profile) case really counts as an example.

The second article is about how university investigations and procedures are insufficient. If so, that's the problem to fix. It's a valid question why universities are handling potential crimes.

Notice this from the second article, incidentally: "Yu argued that the university’s policies are unfair, as students who are incapacitated by alcohol cannot consent to sex, but an equally drunk student can be found responsible for sexual assault.

It’s a policy that is increasingly common at colleges and universities, and its fairness continues to be debated. The blame, however, is not automatically assigned to the male student, but to the student who is thought to have instigated the sex. In other words, if two equally incapacitated students have sex, the student who made the first move is to blame."

The article goes on to cite several court decisions that found that the universities are not, as alleged, automatically treating men students worse because they are men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you please provide an example of a system in the US punishing somebody based solely and exclusively on an accusation? Besides civil forfeiture, that is.

If there is such a system (as in the case of civil forfeiture), then the problem is the existence of such a system.

My goodness, you're tiresome.

I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

No, you're trying as hard as you can to spin this conversation into something it's not, in the hopes of getting everyone off track. You've ceased to make any sense whatsoever, though you weren't making much to begin with. Bye, now.

Remind me again, what are we talking about? The OP was about guiding sons to be respectful of girls. Somebody -- you? -- seems to want to turn this thread into a discussion of university procedures about rape accusations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/11/03/sexual-harassment-policy-that-nearly-ruined-life/hY3XrZrOdXjvX2SSvuciPN/story.html&sa=U&ei=XxZzVdOIIYjboASP0IKQDw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEZgWSTM-4TwarrPMKT0iMmbeFxRQ

www.ryot.org/innocent-men-accused-of-rape-college-campuses/715573

personalliberty.com/college-effectively-ends-students-career-reminded-rape-victim-attacker/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/05/01/students-accused-sexual-assault-struggle-win-gender-bias-lawsuits

I don't think an article by somebody about his very own (high-profile) case really counts as an example.

The second article is about how university investigations and procedures are insufficient. If so, that's the problem to fix. It's a valid question why universities are handling potential crimes.

Notice this from the second article, incidentally: "Yu argued that the university’s policies are unfair, as students who are incapacitated by alcohol cannot consent to sex, but an equally drunk student can be found responsible for sexual assault.

It’s a policy that is increasingly common at colleges and universities, and its fairness continues to be debated. The blame, however, is not automatically assigned to the male student, but to the student who is thought to have instigated the sex. In other words, if two equally incapacitated students have sex, the student who made the first move is to blame."

The article goes on to cite several court decisions that found that the universities are not, as alleged, automatically treating men students worse because they are men.

Regarding your first sentence (bolded) - does this mean that first-person accounts of rapes (high-profile or otherwise) don't count either? For instance, http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/16/i-was-gang-raped-at-a-uva-frat-30-years-ago-and-no-one-did-anything.html. Should we discount this account simply because the victim wrote it? According to you, we should.

Secondly, regarding the next bolded sentence, if two people are equally incapacitated and the woman makes the first move, then is she to blame if she later labels the encounter as "rape"? After all, if a man is to be blamed for making the first move, then it seems the woman should also be equally at fault if she makes the first move. All of which is ridiculous, but I'm just using the examples you've provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you please provide an example of a system in the US punishing somebody based solely and exclusively on an accusation? Besides civil forfeiture, that is.

If there is such a system (as in the case of civil forfeiture), then the problem is the existence of such a system.

My goodness, you're tiresome.

I'm waiting for an example. Thanks.

No, you're trying as hard as you can to spin this conversation into something it's not, in the hopes of getting everyone off track. You've ceased to make any sense whatsoever, though you weren't making much to begin with. Bye, now.

Remind me again, what are we talking about? The OP was about guiding sons to be respectful of girls. Somebody -- you? -- seems to want to turn this thread into a discussion of university procedures about rape accusations.

I am the PP, but I haven't mentioned anything about university procedures regarding rape accusations. I, along with others, have simply been pointing out that if we are to teach our sons to be respectful of girls (i.e. obtaining consent before sex, etc.), then we are to also teach our girls to be respectful of boys. And that includes never falsely accusing anyone of rape. Fair is fair, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No actually most people are saying the women does not need to take responsibility.

Two adults get drunk, both have sketchy memories of the night before, they have sex, but only the male is being accused of rape. Most people are saying that the girl does not need to take responsibility for having sex with a drunk partner.

Who is saying that? Specific citations, please.

Still waiting. And it's not gonna happen, is it.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY IS SAYING THIS. But you know that already, and that's why you ignore.

Still waiting. Just one example..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: However, some of you are actually refusing to admit there is also a subset of women/girls who think nothing of falsely accusing a boy or man of rape.

Where? Show just one post of someone doing this. And saying that it's more rare than rape itself is not the same as saying it never happens. We are all aware that people lie.

So again, show just ONE POST where anyone is refusing to admit this ever happens.

Also am waiting for this.

COME ON NOW, IF THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PICK OUT ONE POST!

Still waiting for this, too.