Emotional needs of our students

[Anonymous]

Do a google and see the stories about parents calling and emailing college professors! nuff said.

[Anonymous]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2013/11/09/parents-overly-involved-college-students-lives/mfYvA5R9IhRpJytEbFpxUP/story.html

Here's a start. Do you want to help your kids? Help them be independent.

[Anonymous]

I have a question. Does graduating from a top 20 college truly change a person's life?

Okay, I'm sure there are more Nobel Laureates who have graduated from highly ranked colleges than lesser known universities, but for the vast majority of graduates from highly ranked colleges are their lives truly altered by the experience?

Graduates from top 20 colleges are smart perfectly nice people, but generally speaking no more so than other college graduates. Nor do they seem to be more financial successful than graduates from other colleges either. It is likely there are more wealthy people who have graduated from highly ranked schools, but by the same token there is also a greater likelihood of there being legacy wealth in families whose children attend such schools.

Graduates of the top 20 schools do not seem to be more well versed in the Great Works than anyone else. They do not seem any more knowledgable about the great philosophers or contemporary revisionist works either. They are nice smart capable people, but for the most part they are not blow your socks off brilliant.

Acceptance to top 20 schools are so difficult today that many superbly intelligent students must be attending other colleges.

I admit I am impressed when I hear someone has been accepted to or has graduated from a top 20 college, but I sincerely wonder if this will always be the case.

With so many truly brilliant students attending and graduating from lesser known universities, are middle of the road graduates from top 20 colleges still held in the same high esteem as in years past?

If not perhaps we should turn down a degree or two the high school pressure cooker which is currently sending out the message to many that life if not worth living without an Ivy League degree.

But back to my original question and I am sincere in asking it. Will a degree from a top 20 college under normal circumstances all other things being equal, significantly improve the quality of ones life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A problem in this area is there is such a large concentration of parents who went to Ivies or other very good schools that the kids in this area feel a very palpable pressure to go to those schools. That puts a heavy burden to excel academically on kids, especially since there are so many other kids in the same class/school feeling the same way. The pressure could be self imposed or could be from real expectations imposed by parents, but, either way, it is magnified in this area because of the large number of kids competing to be among the chosen few. I'm not criticizing the drive to get into Ivies, I'm just pointing out that while most of the time the demographics in this area provides our kids with benefits, it can at times create unintended burdens. Each ivy will only take so many kids from one school, the kids know this, and the pressure begins. The kids also want to be as successful professionally as their parents, which is another high bar in this area. Again, this is not a criticism of having a drive to be successful, I'm just pointing out that sometimes we forget or don't notice some of the pressures our kids face.

As I said, quotas are a serious problem. Fairness isn't really fair.

No, the problem is the entitlement mentality implicit in this statement. Your child is not entitled to admission to an Ivy League school or to UVA. Nor, for that matter, are you or your child entitled to fairness. WTH does fairness even mean in this context? Why is your straight A student more entitled to admission than the tens of thousands of other straight A students? Why isn't it just as "fair" for a college to decide it wants students from a variety of different backgrounds?

There is a certain class of parent--bright, highly educated, overachieving and overpaid--who seems in some essential way to be stuck in 3rd grade emotionally. "That's not fair! My child works so hard, she deserves this!" My god, grow the fuck up! Life isn't fair. And you are doing a grave disservice to your children by encouraging them to just work a little harder so they can enjoy all those special opportunities they so richly deserve. The unspoken message you send to your child is: if I don't get what I want, it must be because I didn't deserve it. What you fail to teach your children is that no one gets what they want all the time, no matter how smart you are or how hard you work. What you fail to teach your children is to expect occasional disappointment and the resiliency to handle it when it comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and I have been trying to figure this out this year. Something has changed. I've been in teaching for ten years and I've noticed the change on several levels. They are stressed out. Part of that stress comes from a fundamental lie they are being told: they won't be successful if they don't get into the top school. I pointed out that they could go to NOVA, save money, be in smaller classes, and then go on to the four-year schools and they'd have the same degree - and they were shocked! They are over scheduled, which leads me to another point: as a whole, they are not better students as the kids ten years ago. Of course I have very good students that are the exceptions, but most of the students in my honors level class procrastinate, make excuses, etc...There were always some students like this, but they understood that they didn't earn an A, and there was no argument. Now, they try to pressure you into grades they didn't earn, and when that doesn't work, they get their parents involved with pleas that usually involve getting in to colleges.
Where does that pressure come from? Probably society, but I think it is a parent's job to let them know that they love them unconditionally and help their kid overcome that pressure - not add to it. I had a kid tell me at the beginning of the year that he must earn A's because when he didn't get into TJ, his father didn't speak to him for a month.

I tuink you said it best of all the posters, yet it doesn't seem as if this is the message the posters want to hear.

Yes we do. The problem is that a lot of teachers aren't like this teacher. And the ones who aren't? They have tenure and they can't get rid of them. What I was told, is that all administration can do is try and make the teacher's life difficult so they go to another school.

You obviously did not even read her post, or you're so fixated on the roles of the school that you missed the whole point.

PARENTS ARE THE PROBLEM. They pressure their kids and then intervene when their child doesn't get the grade they (the parents) want. The kids themselves are whining excuse-makers because that's how they've been raised. Mommy and Daddy can and will come to the rescue anytime a threat to the child's "success" is involved.

This has nothing to do with teachers who have tenure, the administration, or anything else.

I understand you are a teacher so you are biased.

Can a tenured teacher be fired like a private school teacher? No. You have unions that make the parent's life hell if we even complain.

It's not about success, it's about stress. Stress that doctors and mental health providers recognize all too well. Langley especially is legendary. My kid's doctor told her that she was working the equivalent of two full-time jobs and to get the hell out. He called the environment abusive and it's known that way throughout the medical community in the area.

Again, it is up to the administration and the school board to put the brakes on any parents that are pushing beyond. The parents will then take their 'brilliant' child and pay for private. They don't WANT to pay for private. They want to force the administration to do their bidding. In this sense, yep, it's the parents. You speak like the administration and the school board has no control. They sure as hell do. They don't want to exercise it because the benefit to them is inflated numbers. They make the list. I would not be surprised to find out if there were financial incentives. I intend to find out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do a google and see the stories about parents calling and emailing college professors! nuff said.

And what are the college profs doing? I know my son had the option of signing a disclosure agreement. Without one, the school will break the law if they tell parents anything.

No one has the cojones to stand up to parents like this. Their kids suffer as a result.

[Anonymous]

The PBS documentary American Promise is (unknowingly) about the very issues raised in this thread. I say "unknowingly" because the Stanford & Harvard educated doctor and his Columbia Law educated wife thought they were making a documentary about how African-American boys are miseducated at elite, predominately white private schools like Dalton. However, it is clear to viewers their son's problem is THEM and their insistence on getting him into the Ivy League by any means necessary.

There is an interesting thread in the Older Kids and Teens forum that includes a link to the documentary here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/360514.page

And here's a link to the actual documentary:

http://www.pbs.org/pov/americanpromise/full.php#disqus_thread

It's a worthwhile watch. Hopefully some of the parents will see themselves in this documentary and alter their approach to parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A problem in this area is there is such a large concentration of parents who went to Ivies or other very good schools that the kids in this area feel a very palpable pressure to go to those schools. That puts a heavy burden to excel academically on kids, especially since there are so many other kids in the same class/school feeling the same way. The pressure could be self imposed or could be from real expectations imposed by parents, but, either way, it is magnified in this area because of the large number of kids competing to be among the chosen few. I'm not criticizing the drive to get into Ivies, I'm just pointing out that while most of the time the demographics in this area provides our kids with benefits, it can at times create unintended burdens. Each ivy will only take so many kids from one school, the kids know this, and the pressure begins. The kids also want to be as successful professionally as their parents, which is another high bar in this area. Again, this is not a criticism of having a drive to be successful, I'm just pointing out that sometimes we forget or don't notice some of the pressures our kids face.

As I said, quotas are a serious problem. Fairness isn't really fair.

No, the problem is the entitlement mentality implicit in this statement. Your child is not entitled to admission to an Ivy League school or to UVA. Nor, for that matter, are you or your child entitled to fairness. WTH does fairness even mean in this context? Why is your straight A student more entitled to admission than the tens of thousands of other straight A students? Why isn't it just as "fair" for a college to decide it wants students from a variety of different backgrounds?

There is a certain class of parent--bright, highly educated, overachieving and overpaid--who seems in some essential way to be stuck in 3rd grade emotionally. "That's not fair! My child works so hard, she deserves this!" My god, grow the fuck up! Life isn't fair. And you are doing a grave disservice to your children by encouraging them to just work a little harder so they can enjoy all those special opportunities they so richly deserve. The unspoken message you send to your child is: if I don't get what I want, it must be because I didn't deserve it. What you fail to teach your children is that no one gets what they want all the time, no matter how smart you are or how hard you work. What you fail to teach your children is to expect occasional disappointment and the resiliency to handle it when it comes.

No my child isn't entitled, nor did I say that. That IS MY POINT. T he child who gets in who doesn't make the cut grade-wise, standardized test wise isn't either. But that child gets in. Why? You know damn well what the answer is. "Fairness". It's not FAIR that you have money and they don't. It's not FAIR, so we are going to ensure there are tight quotas coming out of that school with wealthy kids. We are going to punish the KIDS simply because their PARENTS have done well.

You clearly aren't reading the thread. What you are doing is saying "Oh, Langley parents are wealthy and I hate them for that. Therefore they think they are entitled to everything."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Does graduating from a top 20 college truly change a person's life?


If not perhaps we should turn down a degree or two the high school pressure cooker which is currently sending out the message to many that life if not worth living without an Ivy League degree.

But back to my original question and I am sincere in asking it. Will a degree from a top 20 college under normal circumstances all other things being equal, significantly improve the quality of ones life?

Of course not. Look at it this way, I happen to be the product of the "best" nursery school in NYC and stayed on that track through to an Ivy League college and grad school. My DH is the product of regular public school and a non top 20 college. If $$$ is the measure, he outearns me considerably. Otherwise, I'd say we're equally happy (at least I hope so!). All his college friends also have very nice lives (extravagantly paid i-banker, ifi banker, movie "star" - ok the last one is not really a star, but he makes a living and seems happy). And the people from my string of prestigious educational institutions seem to be all over the map in terms of happiness and successful careers, Clearly, this is anecdotal, but no one is doomed to a salt mine by not attending an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A problem in this area is there is such a large concentration of parents who went to Ivies or other very good schools that the kids in this area feel a very palpable pressure to go to those schools. That puts a heavy burden to excel academically on kids, especially since there are so many other kids in the same class/school feeling the same way. The pressure could be self imposed or could be from real expectations imposed by parents, but, either way, it is magnified in this area because of the large number of kids competing to be among the chosen few. I'm not criticizing the drive to get into Ivies, I'm just pointing out that while most of the time the demographics in this area provides our kids with benefits, it can at times create unintended burdens. Each ivy will only take so many kids from one school, the kids know this, and the pressure begins. The kids also want to be as successful professionally as their parents, which is another high bar in this area. Again, this is not a criticism of having a drive to be successful, I'm just pointing out that sometimes we forget or don't notice some of the pressures our kids face.

As I said, quotas are a serious problem. Fairness isn't really fair.

No, the problem is the entitlement mentality implicit in this statement. Your child is not entitled to admission to an Ivy League school or to UVA. Nor, for that matter, are you or your child entitled to fairness. WTH does fairness even mean in this context? Why is your straight A student more entitled to admission than the tens of thousands of other straight A students? Why isn't it just as "fair" for a college to decide it wants students from a variety of different backgrounds?

There is a certain class of parent--bright, highly educated, overachieving and overpaid--who seems in some essential way to be stuck in 3rd grade emotionally. "That's not fair! My child works so hard, she deserves this!" My god, grow the fuck up! Life isn't fair. And you are doing a grave disservice to your children by encouraging them to just work a little harder so they can enjoy all those special opportunities they so richly deserve. The unspoken message you send to your child is: if I don't get what I want, it must be because I didn't deserve it. What you fail to teach your children is that no one gets what they want all the time, no matter how smart you are or how hard you work. What you fail to teach your children is to expect occasional disappointment and the resiliency to handle it when it comes.

Because some of those children are being accepted simply because they are from different backgrounds or are different races, not because they earned it. If they earned it, fantastic, they belong there! If not, then they are taking up a space. The more spaces taking up that way, the less there are and the more other kids have to fight for them, creating this nasty environment.

[Anonymous]

17:43, honestly,parents have ultimate control over the schools as they vote for the school board. Administrators are looking to further their careers and some feel pressure to bend when a parent leans on them.

[Anonymous]

I understand you are a teacher so you are biased.

Can a tenured teacher be fired like a private school teacher? No. You have unions that make the parent's life hell if we even complain.

It's not about success, it's about stress. Stress that doctors and mental health providers recognize all too well. Langley especially is legendary. My kid's doctor told her that she was working the equivalent of two full-time jobs and to get the hell out. He called the environment abusive and it's known that way throughout the medical community in the area.

Again, it is up to the administration and the school board to put the brakes on any parents that are pushing beyond. The parents will then take their 'brilliant' child and pay for private. They don't WANT to pay for private. They want to force the administration to do their bidding. In this sense, yep, it's the parents. You speak like the administration and the school board has no control. They sure as hell do. They don't want to exercise it because the benefit to them is inflated numbers. They make the list. I would not be surprised to find out if there were financial incentives. I intend to find out.

I'm more or less an observer on this thread. I find this statement confusing. Could you give specific examples of the problem? I'm clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I understand you are a teacher so you are biased.

No, I'm not. I'm a poster who wondered whether you had read that teacher's response (hence my referring to "her post"). Now I know you didn't even read mine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Does graduating from a top 20 college truly change a person's life?


If not perhaps we should turn down a degree or two the high school pressure cooker which is currently sending out the message to many that life if not worth living without an Ivy League degree.

But back to my original question and I am sincere in asking it. Will a degree from a top 20 college under normal circumstances all other things being equal, significantly improve the quality of ones life?

Of course not. Look at it this way, I happen to be the product of the "best" nursery school in NYC and stayed on that track through to an Ivy League college and grad school. My DH is the product of regular public school and a non top 20 college. If $$$ is the measure, he outearns me considerably. Otherwise, I'd say we're equally happy (at least I hope so!). All his college friends also have very nice lives (extravagantly paid i-banker, ifi banker, movie "star" - ok the last one is not really a star, but he makes a living and seems happy). And the people from my string of prestigious educational institutions seem to be all over the map in terms of happiness and successful careers, Clearly, this is anecdotal, but no one is doomed to a salt mine by not attending an Ivy.

Thanks for responding. I feel if doing and achieving the requisite things necessary to be accepted to a top 20 school come to an individual somewhat naturally then by all means they should. However, if a person needs to go to the extreme measures changing themselves to the point if contorting themselves into the shape of a pretzel to gain admission then the psychological and social sacrifices are too great. You know a banker and I know others as well who have found happiness taking less established routes to success.

For students who are on Top 20 track, I wonder how much pressure they place on themselves? I also wonder about peer pressure. I guess having watched enough movies like "The Paper Chase", I should know that high achieving individuals can be as cruel as anyone else, but I still want to believe that smart people are smart enough to realize they too have weaknesses and as a result have empathy for others. I wonder if kids on top 20 track are supportive of their peers or if it's such a competetive space that they savor the disappointments of others? If what I'm suggesting does actually exist does it trickle down and permeate the fabric of entire high schools like the ones which have been scrutinized this week? Can academic competition in high schools become so culturally toxic that it affects every strata of students regardless the long term goals of individual students?

In a schools of high achievers do those high achievers have inflated egos and do lower achieving students suffer from low self-esteem?

My string of consciousness really got away from me this time!

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Thanks for responding. I feel if doing and achieving the requisite things necessary to be accepted to a top 20 school come to an individual somewhat naturally then by all means they should. However, if a person needs to go to the extreme measures changing themselves to the point if contorting themselves into the shape of a pretzel to gain admission then the psychological and social sacrifices are too great. You know a banker and I know others as well who have found happiness taking less established routes to success.

For students who are on Top 20 track, I wonder how much pressure they place on themselves? I also wonder about peer pressure. I guess having watched enough movies like "The Paper Chase", I should know that high achieving individuals can be as cruel as anyone else, but I still want to believe that smart people are smart enough to realize they too have weaknesses and as a result have empathy for others. I wonder if kids on top 20 track are supportive of their peers or if it's such a competetive space that they savor the disappointments of others? If what I'm suggesting does actually exist does it trickle down and permeate the fabric of entire high schools like the ones which have been scrutinized this week? Can academic competition in high schools become so culturally toxic that it affects every strata of students regardless the long term goals of individual students?

In a schools of high achievers do those high achievers have inflated egos and do lower achieving students suffer from low self-esteem?

My string of consciousness really got away from me this time!

Thanks

Not the "top twenty" poster. I'm a "mature" person whose children are grown, but I can answer your question after years of experience: you will find all of the above.