S/O Why can’t moms just chill and be nice?

[Anonymous]

I don’t engage with people like this. My friends do not either. I see it for sure, and sidestep. It leaves our family on the outside of the school community, away from toxicity though as well.

I’ve never hung with mean girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t engage with people like this. My friends do not either. I see it for sure, and sidestep. It leaves our family on the outside of the school community, away from toxicity though as well.

I’ve never hung with mean girls.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

+1000

This reminds me of people who will say "Larla yelled at me," and they get all kinds of sympathy, but then it turns out Larla didn't "yell" at all, she just had to say something constructive and the person didn't like it.

Same thing here -- people will use the word "bully" when there is a group of moms who enjoy hanging out at the pool together and have a monthly book club, and they didn't want to invite you. People aren't bullying you just because they don't want to be your friend, and they do want to be friends with others.

Reading is fundamental.

[Anonymous]

There have been a lot of these lately and I can't be the only person to whom most people have been incredibly nice (I try super hard to be nice back).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm troubled by the fact that you think this is unique and intrinsic to women. What you're describing - a dynamic where women are mean, toxic shrews and men are cool and "chill" - is so regressive and anti-woman that it feels like something you'd hear 20 years ago.

My guess is that you're giving off "I'm not like the other girls!" vibes that other women find offensive and off-putting. I love women and I'm certainly not going to forge a relationship with someone who thinks women suck and are inherently inferior to men.

OP does not claim this is "intrinsic" to women, nor dues she call women "mean, toxic shrews." Thats all your projection.

OP is describing a personal experience where other moms have been competitive or conformist which is not a behavior she notices in men around her. There are multiple explanations for this, including the idea that women tend to be more competitive or harder on each other *because* of internalized misogyny. Nothing OP has said indicates that she thinks women are intrinsically inferior to men, only that she's noticed a behavior among women in her life that is not present in the men and is asking why.

It is a behavior many women have noticed in groups of women, this isn't a new line of inquiry, it's a documented phenomenon, even if you personally have not experienced it.

The irony here is wild. I know this isn't your intent, but you're describing precisely what the OP is doing in this post.

I disagree that's what she's doing. If you read all of OP's posts, she's talking about specific behaviors this group of moms have engaged in that have led to her feeling judged and hurt (behaviors like criticizing her directly for choices like not dying her hair). I also think it's obvious she's not talking about individual women being chill or nice, but about the dynamics between women. She's asking why, when women are in groups together, is it hard for them to just be accepting and tolerant of each other without judgment and competition.

OP could have framed this better but this isn't a novel observation. Many, many women have expressed frustration with the way women interact with each other, and complained about the exact same dynamics OP describes -- enforced conformity, judgment of any deviation, an emphasis on physical appearance and performance of motherhood. I don't think women do any of this because women just intrinsically are bad. I think we do it because we are all participating in the misogynist pastime of constantly measuring and comparing women in order to find them wanting, so that we may criticize and judge them. All women have experienced this. When it happens at the hands of other women it feels like a betrayal, and when it happens at the hands of an entire group of women it is worse. Admitting this is not misogyny. Women participate in the patriarchy every day. Pointing that out is not misogyny.

Not every bad behavior women engage in stems from a misogynist pastime or patriarchy. Stop always trying to externalize blame for crappy behavior. Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Just like middle school, it’s a small group of people who are trying to feel good about themselves by excluding and bullying others

[Anonymous]

I’ve experienced 99.9% chill and nice moms. The ones who are weird or very stressed are doing their own thing, not trying to play any social games. I continue to think people who complain about this on dcum are pretty much in their own heads about it. The examples are never persuasive.

[Anonymous]

This is why I prefer to keep to myself and am not looking for new friends. Too many nasty people out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone is nice. They just aren't.

If you have a pattern of being the victim of bullies, it might make sense to look into why. You might need to improve your social skills.

Wow.

The only time I went through this stuff as an adult was at a specific company where I worked. It was horrific. I didn't even get the worse of it, another woman did. But no. It was those people, in a setting which allowed and implicitly encouraged it.

I think social skills can help with kids and teens--I was both shy and anxious and bullied. But most of the actual bullying was between 7th and 9th grade. Later I was more just isolated (although I did stay active in extracurriculars, Girl Scouts, church youth activities, so I had kind of a life, and I made one good friend my last couple years of h.s.).



Don't make being bullied the fault of the people who are mistreated.

People love to punch down - as evidenced by this thread. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these posters insisting bullying doesn’t happen and is just a mental production of people who are insecure/paranoid are themselves bullies.

Punching down? What are you talking about? Who is down and who is up in this thread?

[Anonymous]

They are the same person as before. They never grew intellectually and emotionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

Serious question, are most of these bullying women white? Just asking because they tend to be the bullies at work too. I think it’s because they don’t have control in their households. Their husband and kids probably walk all over them so they need an outlet. Obviously not all white women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

Serious question, are most of these bullying women white? Just asking because they tend to be the bullies at work too. I think it’s because they don’t have control in their households. Their husband and kids probably walk all over them so they need an outlet. Obviously not all white women.

Not OP but I have known a handful of women like this and none of them lack control in their households. In fact it seems like the opposite is true. The women most likely to be cruel or manipulative in their social groups tend to be the obvious alpha in their families as well, with a spouse who does what he's told and kids who know not to cross her.

[Anonymous]

I want to note that OP didn't ask why moms can't just BE chill. She said "why can't moms just chill." So she's not referring to personality, but behavior. She's asking why moms can't just leave each other alone, instead of gossiping, criticizing, or judging one another.

And I just want to point out that this thread grew pretty fast and with a lot of contentious back and forth between, presumably, moms, with plenty of gossip, criticism and judgment, of each other and of other moms they know.

Can you imagine a similar thread for men, where a bunch of dads posted judging and criticizing each other? I think men as a group are kind of horrible but this is impossible for me to imagine. My husband would never be able to sustain actual interest in other dads to engage in something like this. He would give up and go watch a sporting event or play a video game or read a book. Sorry to throw out so many stereotypes about men but I'm describing my real husband who I guess is pretty stereotypical in this respect.

So it's a fair question. Why are we like this? How can we stop? Why are men able to just "do less" when it comes to male friendship or interacting with peers, and largely just not care enough about each other to sit around comparing and judging and criticizing and gaslighting each other?