Lottery Etiquette

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Depends.

For the PK3 lottery I think it's helpful for people to share their results and situations (like what they ranked highest, if they are wait listed) because everyone is new to the process and it's part of how you learn. But you should always be sensitive about it, especially if you "win" the lottery. Others won't, and if you are seen as gloating, they will get annoyed with you.

As kids get older people tend to be slightly more circumspect, especially because choosing to lottery often indicates dissatisfaction with the school other people's kids attend. Also middle school lottery in DC is stressful because there are simply not enough spots available as the schools a lot of people want and many people have very tough choices to make if they don't get a lottery spot for MS.

In HS you have application schools, plus at that point the kids are taking the lead on school preferences and you need to be thoughtful about how the kids feel (again, especially kids who don't get spots at their desired school).

The lottery is a good time to practice empathy, be observant about how your situation might differ from someone else's (for instance some people have really weak IB options do more may ride on the lottery for them), and learn to talk about kids in a non-competitive and mutually supportive way. This is far from the last time those skills will come in handy with other parents.

Eh. I would say that this is an opportunity to begin the essential process of being less fixated on “wins” for your kid. You cannot really predict the future. I was devastated when my kid “lost” the K lottery but the IB school ended up being excellent for K. Similarly bummed to “lose” for MS but again IB worked really well. Believe it or not it is possible to be chill about this stuff and you do not have to be a constant maximizer.

That's great for you but not everyone's IB works "really well." We were at out IB from PK3 though 2nd and it was a rough run for my kid, when we finally had lottery puck and got a spot at another DCPS.i wasn't "maximizing" to feel frustration and disappointment each year when we'd watch other families depart our IB, and the have to explain to our kid why a friend wouldn't be at our school anymore.

I bet your IB is a school a lot like where we ended up -- a good DCPS with an acceptable MS feed. I wish you understood how rare this is in DC.

You misunderstand. I’m talking about people who think they need to take exaggerated steps to conceal or carefully share that they “won” the lottery. Same as I assume you didn’t go around talking constantly about how much you wanted to get out of your “bad” IB.

I'm the PP who I think you identified as "maximizing" and I wasn't suggesting concealing lottery results. More I was suggesting sensitivity in situations where the people you are talking to might be facing tough decisions due to bad results. I have had friends text me excitedly with their results and "so how about you??" And would have preferred a more diplomatic approach. Obviously everyone finds out where everyone goes, but it's good to remember not everyone gets what hoped for.

To me, this is a heartbreaking part about the lottery -- the "winners" and "losers." Especially as the kids get older and middle and high school pathways feels actually life altering.

As for the elementary school parents who are judgemental -- this is all because they are not completely sure they are making the right decision for their own kid. Whe you leave, it creates evidence that there is a better school than their current school and their kid may be missing out, and it feeds that feeling, which im sure feels awful. This all supports the plan of saying less to families to stay. Also, elementary school really isn't that high stakes, so staying is fine, and taking a better opportunity is also fine.

+1 on the dynamics of telling your elementary school family friends about leaving for a lottery spot, we had to navigate this several years ago and didn't share the news for a while. Had a close-knit group that included the school's most active supporters. We didn't share details about why were leaving just said things like "a better fit." We found out after we left that more than a few had been secretly playing the lottery. Now that the kids are nearer to MS it is clear most of these families will leave the school before 5th, we just did it early.

Our kids were pretty small (early elementary) and we told them about the new school during the second half of the summer...absolutely would not have told them before they completed that final year at the old school, they would have been devastated. But they're thriving where we are now, and we still see families still going to our old school quite a bit. Even though it has been years we are still pretty mum about details on the differences between the schools (unless pointedly asked) because of the reasons PP says above -- it doesn't feel good to think your kid might be missing out on some of these things and the school we left has a lot of good features too.

How did/do you explain to your kids why you made the switch? I know my early elementary schoolers wouldn't be satisfied until I gave them some degree of detail.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

A year from now, you will barely remember these families.

+1. And they are probably secretly doing the lottery every year too.

I’m curious, what do you mean by “secretly doing the lottery”? That phrase has come up a couple times on this thread.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well the other way that high school is distinctly different is that for application schools it isn’t random, so a bad result feels not only disappointing but also like a negative judgement.

Nope. Walls is a lottery basically. They are no longer taking the brightest kid. So that’s that, not much different.

Well no. Latin's 9th grade seats are a lottery (with sibling preference). Walls is a lottery amongst those who meet the threshold criteria and complete the application process. So it is partly a performance judgment.

OK but the threshold is subjective (recommendations) and there is rampant grade inflation (grades) so it is not clear just how good that “performance” really is.

Also PP above said bad result which implies that the kid applied and didn’t get in. So at this point, it is a lottery.

It really isn’t as much of a lottery as people seem to think. Applicants are ranked (points), and the top ones get in. The only time a lottery number matters is for candidates right on the edge of getting in who all have the same score. I agree that the criteria for ranking kids is hugely subjective and doesn’t lead to the smartest kids always getting in, but a subjective application process is not the same as a random lottery, and it feels different to kids getting results.

Right and there are also the essays and interviews. There are a lot of data points that are considered. I, too, am unclear on how the ranking works in relation to the lottery — like even if my kid is ranked in top 100 of applicants, do they still get in if they have a really horrible lottery number? This is the anxiety i have today (choosing to believe my is qualified otherwise, I know could be wrong!).

Yes, if your kid is in the top 100 kids as ranked by Walls, they will get in regardless of their lottery number.

The reason people say the admissions system is like a lottery is that the factors are so subjective that many results don't seem rational.

+1. By lottery, I mean that it's opaque and arbitrary, not that your literal lottery number matters.

It would be much easier as a lottery among GPA-qualified kids. Faster and less hassle for everyone and no less arbitrary!

Almost certainly more equitable too, though a standardized test would be better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

A year from now, you will barely remember these families.

Not the PP but I think that this is a common mental pitfall in these threads - people don't advertise that they're playing the lottery because they're being polite, don't want to trash the school they're at, and anyway nobody is entitled to that information. But if someone in their *circle* doesn't advertise that they're playing the lottery it's because they're a sneak (especially if they *win* the lottery and the person finding out about it has not)!

+1. And they are probably secretly doing the lottery every year too.

I’m curious, what do you mean by “secretly doing the lottery”? That phrase has come up a couple times on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

A year from now, you will barely remember these families.

+1. And they are probably secretly doing the lottery every year too.

I’m curious, what do you mean by “secretly doing the lottery”? That phrase has come up a couple times on this thread.

Not the PP but I think that this is a common mental pitfall in these threads - people don't advertise that they're playing the lottery because they're being polite, don't want to trash the school they're at, and anyway nobody is entitled to that information. But if someone in their *circle* doesn't advertise that they're playing the lottery it's because they're a sneak (especially if they *win* the lottery and the person finding out about it has not)!

/fixed formatting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

A year from now, you will barely remember these families.

+1. And they are probably secretly doing the lottery every year too.

I’m curious, what do you mean by “secretly doing the lottery”? That phrase has come up a couple times on this thread.

Not the PP but I think that this is a common mental pitfall in these threads - people don't advertise that they're playing the lottery because they're being polite, don't want to trash the school they're at, and anyway nobody is entitled to that information. But if someone in their *circle* doesn't advertise that they're playing the lottery it's because they're a sneak (especially if they *win* the lottery and the person finding out about it has not)!

/fixed formatting

NP. I think it’s one thing to be discrete. It’s another thing to be an active booster who is always talking about how great the school is, participate in discussions about next year, defend the school anytime someone says anything even remotely negative, and never say one word to even your closest friends that you might leave. Particularly if you’re leaving for a middle of the road school that is very get-able, ie, you were really choosing higher likelihood schools. (I think people understand that lots of folks are putting reaches like Deal feeders, Ross, etc each year and if that works out it’s a different story).

[Anonymous]

I also think there is rampant boundary fraud and people mask it by claiming they won the lottery. Any kid mysteriously getting into Deal and feeders is definitely suspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is rampant boundary fraud and people mask it by claiming they won the lottery. Any kid mysteriously getting into Deal and feeders is definitely suspect.

I don’t know about this. Deal feeders are not hard to get into for upper grades - especially Lafayette, Shepherd and Hearst. We got into multiple (over a couple of years) and turned them down (electing to stay at our Hardy feeder)

[Anonymous]

Do not post if the results are up if they are not. Some nervous biddy of a two year old will report your thread and get it deleted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

A year from now, you will barely remember these families.

+1. And they are probably secretly doing the lottery every year too.

I’m curious, what do you mean by “secretly doing the lottery”? That phrase has come up a couple times on this thread.

Not the PP but I think that this is a common mental pitfall in these threads - people don't advertise that they're playing the lottery because they're being polite, don't want to trash the school they're at, and anyway nobody is entitled to that information. But if someone in their *circle* doesn't advertise that they're playing the lottery it's because they're a sneak (especially if they *win* the lottery and the person finding out about it has not)!

/fixed formatting

NP. I think it’s one thing to be discrete. It’s another thing to be an active booster who is always talking about how great the school is, participate in discussions about next year, defend the school anytime someone says anything even remotely negative, and never say one word to even your closest friends that you might leave. Particularly if you’re leaving for a middle of the road school that is very get-able, ie, you were really choosing higher likelihood schools. (I think people understand that lots of folks are putting reaches like Deal feeders, Ross, etc each year and if that works out it’s a different story).

IDK, we do the lottery every year as a kind of insurance and we don’t talk about it with our friends. We are very supportive of our current school, but one of our kids has some special needs that can make things rocky at times, even at this school we love. So it’s helpful to have at least the chance of another option if needed, but we’re not trying to be secretive about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is rampant boundary fraud and people mask it by claiming they won the lottery. Any kid mysteriously getting into Deal and feeders is definitely suspect.

I don’t know about this. Deal feeders are not hard to get into for upper grades - especially Lafayette, Shepherd and Hearst. We got into multiple (over a couple of years) and turned them down (electing to stay at our Hardy feeder)

Yeah, I know many people who genuinely did get into Deal feeders (and tons to Hardy feeders, including us, but that's a little more likely). I actually think if you play every year you are basically gaurenteed a spot at a Hardy feeder, if you want one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

PP here. I mean, I guess I can understand this, especially if you've seen other people leave and get treated poorly (people saying "oh, that's a bummer, I wish they would have stayed," if that's the kind of judgment you're talking about, I don't think that counts, but really rudeness or exclusion, that would be bad). And other posters are correct that you don't "owe" anyone that information. But let's be real then - you are the drama. Saying, "yeah, we do like IB School, but we have decided to try the lottery this year" and then answer follow up questions diplomatically, like "we're a bit worried about academics in the upper grades. But we've had a great experience at School, and if the lottery works out for us, I'm really going to miss seeing you so often - I hope we can stay in touch" and dealing with a few frowny faces is way less drama than suddenly declaring you're out in August.

Maybe it's different at our school, where people are kind and not particularly judgmental, but the reactions to people planning to leave have been "Oh! Too bad, we'll miss you!" and some disappointment. But people have absolutely been hurt with the last minute announcements (or lack thereof - one person just literally didn't show up on the first day, didn't tell anyone), and I think that's uncalled for.

Look, when there's a small cohort of advanced kids in a school, one or two kid leaving in a grade can dramatically change the experience for the remaining kids. When we decided to lottery out (with a variety of schools, so yes, we're likely to leave) we let folks know, quietly and diplomatically, before lottery apps were due. I didn't want anyone to be blindsided, and this way they had all the information when deciding what schools to apply to for their kids. Are some folks disappointed? Yes. But that's life, and I've been able to maintain good relationships with the neighborhood families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is rampant boundary fraud and people mask it by claiming they won the lottery. Any kid mysteriously getting into Deal and feeders is definitely suspect.

I don’t know about this. Deal feeders are not hard to get into for upper grades - especially Lafayette, Shepherd and Hearst. We got into multiple (over a couple of years) and turned them down (electing to stay at our Hardy feeder)

Yeah, I know many people who genuinely did get into Deal feeders (and tons to Hardy feeders, including us, but that's a little more likely). I actually think if you play every year you are basically gaurenteed a spot at a Hardy feeder, if you want one.

+1

I do think this is true for Deal itself, but if you play the lotto for the feeders every single year, you've got a good chance of eventually getting a spot (esp. if you're willing to change schools in October).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For elementary school school lottery, we only told a few friends of the lottery results, no one at our existing IB school. Told friends at IB school in the weeks leading up to the new school year. Told our kids the week before school started.
For middle school, we told our kid that night, and discretely told friends in the weeks after, mainly trying to figure out who would be joining at the new school (BASIS). But don't do what some of the 4th grade parents did on our school's WhatsApp group - broadcast to the whole grade who got into Latin or how high their kid's spot was on the waitlist.

I’m the PP who opted for honesty - I think it’s crappy to not tell the other elementary families until August. What is your rationale for that?

Because there is/was a cohort of families who are judgmental of families who lottery out of the school. I didn't want to deal with that drama when we still had to see them every school day (it's a small school community).

PP here. I mean, I guess I can understand this, especially if you've seen other people leave and get treated poorly (people saying "oh, that's a bummer, I wish they would have stayed," if that's the kind of judgment you're talking about, I don't think that counts, but really rudeness or exclusion, that would be bad). And other posters are correct that you don't "owe" anyone that information. But let's be real then - you are the drama. Saying, "yeah, we do like IB School, but we have decided to try the lottery this year" and then answer follow up questions diplomatically, like "we're a bit worried about academics in the upper grades. But we've had a great experience at School, and if the lottery works out for us, I'm really going to miss seeing you so often - I hope we can stay in touch" and dealing with a few frowny faces is way less drama than suddenly declaring you're out in August.

Maybe it's different at our school, where people are kind and not particularly judgmental, but the reactions to people planning to leave have been "Oh! Too bad, we'll miss you!" and some disappointment. But people have absolutely been hurt with the last minute announcements (or lack thereof - one person just literally didn't show up on the first day, didn't tell anyone), and I think that's uncalled for.

Look, when there's a small cohort of advanced kids in a school, one or two kid leaving in a grade can dramatically change the experience for the remaining kids. When we decided to lottery out (with a variety of schools, so yes, we're likely to leave) we let folks know, quietly and diplomatically, before lottery apps were due. I didn't want anyone to be blindsided, and this way they had all the information when deciding what schools to apply to for their kids. Are some folks disappointed? Yes. But that's life, and I've been able to maintain good relationships with the neighborhood families.

If someone at your school changed to another school and you didn't find out about it until the first day of school, then you were obviously not close enough friends for them to tell you. If your families knew each other and did things like get together over the summer and your kids had actual relationships with each other, you would have known.

No family is required to send some kind of press release to the broader community that they are changing schools. Just because you met someone once at a PTA meeting or ran into them sometimes during school drop off does not actually entitle you to information about their school choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is rampant boundary fraud and people mask it by claiming they won the lottery. Any kid mysteriously getting into Deal and feeders is definitely suspect.

I don’t know about this. Deal feeders are not hard to get into for upper grades - especially Lafayette, Shepherd and Hearst. We got into multiple (over a couple of years) and turned them down (electing to stay at our Hardy feeder)

Is this as true as it used to be? In the past 2 to 3 school years I don’t think these schools have offered very many upper grade seats except in October.