Two spouses: a play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely seems like a distinct lack of conversation here around who is doing what in this particular play.

But, I also think all this dictating of exactly what kids have to wear for events by the powers that be is madness. In our school, I find the teachers often don’t mention the dress code until the Monday of the week you need it — instead of the week before when normal people could coordinate over the weekend. It makes me totally insane. For example, I’m the mom who travels for work and also makes virtually all our income. But suddenly, my kid tells me Monday night (when I’m in Chicago) that she needs a red dress for Thursday. I’m getting home late Tuesday night and have to work Wednesday. So, the first chance I would have to deal with this is really Wednesday night. And the performance is Thursday!! So, I’m telling my husband that in addition to solo parenting on Monday and Tuesday night for our 16 year old who has a rare genetic disorder and is cognitively a baby (he has to feed her, change her diaper, etc), he needs to drag her out to the store with the other kid to look for the special red dress that she now needs. Or we have to convince my kid to wear some garbage dress that we can overnight from Amazon, which she won’t be happy with and is just bad for the environment since she will never wear it again.

This whole situation is ridiculously unfavorable to the less wealthy. Frankly, I have plenty of money and I’m not interested in buying some one off thing my kid will probably refuse to wear again.

And those of you who think this crap isn’t a pain in the butt mystify me. Of course, doing this one time isn’t the end of the world. But the intensive parenting that is a monster created by our current culture is very challenging. And even though I’m a pretty ardent feminist, Phyllis Shafly wasn’t totally wrong to question why women would want to go to work and do all the work of a housewife. We taught women they could bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan. No one said to the men, “hey, you are really going to have to learn to make the breakfast for your whole family proactively just because you know it has to be done.” I would argue I have one of the most equitable marriages out there, but studies show over and over that my life is the anomaly.

What consequences will the school impose if your child is unable to procure a red dress?

Known but then your child feels left out and weird.

You are talking to someone who does not care about the feelings of their own little children.

You can’t expect them to empathize with random people on the internet.

PP I simply asked about any school consequences. I have not expressed an opinion on the child feeling left out, which merits a further nuanced discussion on balances the child's feelings and family resources.

Your emotionally manipulative comment is not worth a response.

I simply said that someone incapable of empathizing with their own children isn’t going to be able to empathize with a random stranger.

Do you disagree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Gift card. It takes 15 seconds to pick one at a gas station.

This is only a problem if you want the experience of shopping for a gift. If it's about you, then deal with the load you are putting on yourself and stop asking for validation and credit.

Too bad Dad can’t read his emails, “step up”, and do just that.

PP

Was this an option for OP? We don't know. Did dad offer, and OP responded with "That's not good enough; it needs to be more special."

I agree dad - entire family - should be sharing responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Drop the rope and let the house of cards fall.

The kids can be losers who are late, don’t have the right gear, don’t know what’s going on or what they’re missing. Whatever.

And if they’re old enough, one poster said get them an IPhone so they can run the house and their schedule themselves. That’ll surely work for an 8, 10,12,14, or 16 yo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

[Anonymous]

“For not only shall she construct and mount a cross of her own choosing, she must labor to carry it to the highest hill so her suffering shall be known to all.”

A reading from the book of Karen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely seems like a distinct lack of conversation here around who is doing what in this particular play.

But, I also think all this dictating of exactly what kids have to wear for events by the powers that be is madness. In our school, I find the teachers often don’t mention the dress code until the Monday of the week you need it — instead of the week before when normal people could coordinate over the weekend. It makes me totally insane. For example, I’m the mom who travels for work and also makes virtually all our income. But suddenly, my kid tells me Monday night (when I’m in Chicago) that she needs a red dress for Thursday. I’m getting home late Tuesday night and have to work Wednesday. So, the first chance I would have to deal with this is really Wednesday night. And the performance is Thursday!! So, I’m telling my husband that in addition to solo parenting on Monday and Tuesday night for our 16 year old who has a rare genetic disorder and is cognitively a baby (he has to feed her, change her diaper, etc), he needs to drag her out to the store with the other kid to look for the special red dress that she now needs. Or we have to convince my kid to wear some garbage dress that we can overnight from Amazon, which she won’t be happy with and is just bad for the environment since she will never wear it again.

This whole situation is ridiculously unfavorable to the less wealthy. Frankly, I have plenty of money and I’m not interested in buying some one off thing my kid will probably refuse to wear again.

And those of you who think this crap isn’t a pain in the butt mystify me. Of course, doing this one time isn’t the end of the world. But the intensive parenting that is a monster created by our current culture is very challenging. And even though I’m a pretty ardent feminist, Phyllis Shafly wasn’t totally wrong to question why women would want to go to work and do all the work of a housewife. We taught women they could bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan. No one said to the men, “hey, you are really going to have to learn to make the breakfast for your whole family proactively just because you know it has to be done.” I would argue I have one of the most equitable marriages out there, but studies show over and over that my life is the anomaly.

What consequences will the school impose if your child is unable to procure a red dress?

Known but then your child feels left out and weird.

You are talking to someone who does not care about the feelings of their own little children.

You can’t expect them to empathize with random people on the internet.

PP I simply asked about any school consequences. I have not expressed an opinion on the child feeling left out, which merits a further nuanced discussion on balances the child's feelings and family resources.

Your emotionally manipulative comment is not worth a response.

I simply said that someone incapable of empathizing with their own children isn’t going to be able to empathize with a random stranger.

No, you accused me of not empathizing with my own children:

"You are talking to someone who does not care about the feelings of their own little children"

Do you disagree?

Are you asking me, or are you asking someone capable of agreeing? Do you understand the difference?

[Anonymous]

So I’m the actual poster that described the Monday request for a red dress on a Thursday. With respect to consequences, it depends. And I often opt out of this stuff entirely, because I don’t care about this kind of nonsense. My kid jokes with me about not being one of “those kinds of moms”, because I don’t care about this crap. My parenting style would probably be considered more paternal than maternal with respect to this stuff. I do ask her to tell me when participation in this kind of stuff is really important to her and sometimes it is. I try to accommodate that since she often doesn’t care about spirit day type stuff. It still adds up as an overall burden.

But sometimes there are consequences. For example, in 7th grade, my daughter was going on a field trip for Model UN (in Spanish since she is in immersion). We had an outfit picked, but the teacher told them on the Monday that there were very specific dress code requirements that had to be met by Thursday or they would get 10 points off their grade. We didn’t have anything in the house to meet this requirement and my daughter cares a lot about her grades so this involved a last minute panicked trip to the mall to find a freaking pantsuit for a 13 year old girl. I was pretty pissed about this one.

I will say that Spanish immersion does seem to be particularly prone to this. The teachers seem to be a lot more strict about grade point losses for not meeting a particular dress code. But I’ve seen it with choir, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I’m the actual poster that described the Monday request for a red dress on a Thursday. With respect to consequences, it depends. And I often opt out of this stuff entirely, because I don’t care about this kind of nonsense. My kid jokes with me about not being one of “those kinds of moms”, because I don’t care about this crap. My parenting style would probably be considered more paternal than maternal with respect to this stuff. I do ask her to tell me when participation in this kind of stuff is really important to her and sometimes it is. I try to accommodate that since she often doesn’t care about spirit day type stuff. It still adds up as an overall burden.

But sometimes there are consequences. For example, in 7th grade, my daughter was going on a field trip for Model UN (in Spanish since she is in immersion). We had an outfit picked, but the teacher told them on the Monday that there were very specific dress code requirements that had to be met by Thursday or they would get 10 points off their grade. We didn’t have anything in the house to meet this requirement and my daughter cares a lot about her grades so this involved a last minute panicked trip to the mall to find a freaking pantsuit for a 13 year old girl. I was pretty pissed about this one.

I will say that Spanish immersion does seem to be particularly prone to this. The teachers seem to be a lot more strict about grade point losses for not meeting a particular dress code. But I’ve seen it with choir, etc.

10 points off a grade is a consequence. And your daughter not wanting to lose 10 points matters.

How much this matters depends on the specifics and context. If the other spouse is maxed out on "needs", the panicked trip is what it is. Hopefully your spouse helped appeal this with the teachers boss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There definitely seems like a distinct lack of conversation here around who is doing what in this particular play.

But, I also think all this dictating of exactly what kids have to wear for events by the powers that be is madness. In our school, I find the teachers often don’t mention the dress code until the Monday of the week you need it — instead of the week before when normal people could coordinate over the weekend. It makes me totally insane. For example, I’m the mom who travels for work and also makes virtually all our income. But suddenly, my kid tells me Monday night (when I’m in Chicago) that she needs a red dress for Thursday. I’m getting home late Tuesday night and have to work Wednesday. So, the first chance I would have to deal with this is really Wednesday night. And the performance is Thursday!! So, I’m telling my husband that in addition to solo parenting on Monday and Tuesday night for our 16 year old who has a rare genetic disorder and is cognitively a baby (he has to feed her, change her diaper, etc), he needs to drag her out to the store with the other kid to look for the special red dress that she now needs. Or we have to convince my kid to wear some garbage dress that we can overnight from Amazon, which she won’t be happy with and is just bad for the environment since she will never wear it again.

This whole situation is ridiculously unfavorable to the less wealthy. Frankly, I have plenty of money and I’m not interested in buying some one off thing my kid will probably refuse to wear again.

And those of you who think this crap isn’t a pain in the butt mystify me. Of course, doing this one time isn’t the end of the world. But the intensive parenting that is a monster created by our current culture is very challenging. And even though I’m a pretty ardent feminist, Phyllis Shafly wasn’t totally wrong to question why women would want to go to work and do all the work of a housewife. We taught women they could bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan. No one said to the men, “hey, you are really going to have to learn to make the breakfast for your whole family proactively just because you know it has to be done.” I would argue I have one of the most equitable marriages out there, but studies show over and over that my life is the anomaly.

What consequences will the school impose if your child is unable to procure a red dress?

Known but then your child feels left out and weird.

You are talking to someone who does not care about the feelings of their own little children.

You can’t expect them to empathize with random people on the internet.

PP I simply asked about any school consequences. I have not expressed an opinion on the child feeling left out, which merits a further nuanced discussion on balances the child's feelings and family resources.

Your emotionally manipulative comment is not worth a response.

I simply said that someone incapable of empathizing with their own children isn’t going to be able to empathize with a random stranger.

No, you accused me of not empathizing with my own children:

"You are talking to someone who does not care about the feelings of their own little children"

Do you disagree?

Are you asking me, or are you asking someone capable of agreeing? Do you understand the difference?

You don’t empathize with your children. And you don’t empathize with anyone else on this thread.

I think you are capable of intellectually understanding that and agreeing with it.

[Anonymous]

Thank you DCUM for reminding me to be thankful and appreciative of my husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I’m the actual poster that described the Monday request for a red dress on a Thursday. With respect to consequences, it depends. And I often opt out of this stuff entirely, because I don’t care about this kind of nonsense. My kid jokes with me about not being one of “those kinds of moms”, because I don’t care about this crap. My parenting style would probably be considered more paternal than maternal with respect to this stuff. I do ask her to tell me when participation in this kind of stuff is really important to her and sometimes it is. I try to accommodate that since she often doesn’t care about spirit day type stuff. It still adds up as an overall burden.

But sometimes there are consequences. For example, in 7th grade, my daughter was going on a field trip for Model UN (in Spanish since she is in immersion). We had an outfit picked, but the teacher told them on the Monday that there were very specific dress code requirements that had to be met by Thursday or they would get 10 points off their grade. We didn’t have anything in the house to meet this requirement and my daughter cares a lot about her grades so this involved a last minute panicked trip to the mall to find a freaking pantsuit for a 13 year old girl. I was pretty pissed about this one.

I will say that Spanish immersion does seem to be particularly prone to this. The teachers seem to be a lot more strict about grade point losses for not meeting a particular dress code. But I’ve seen it with choir, etc.

10 points off a grade is a consequence. And your daughter not wanting to lose 10 points matters.

How much this matters depends on the specifics and context. If the other spouse is maxed out on "needs", the panicked trip is what it is. Hopefully your spouse helped appeal this with the teachers boss.

Like I said in my earlier post, I have a very equitable marriage. But the posters who insist all of this is self imposed by women and ignoring the real constraint that men haven’t been raised to fully appreciate caregiving while we have created a society that generally needs 2 incomes to survive are either very naive or just want to be jerks on the internet. While the OP may have been silly in her construct, she isn’t wrong about how things work for most women in America.

[Anonymous]

NP. None of the things OP did are optional make-work she made up to be a martyr. It's absolutely true that some parents do that -- if OP were complaining about the burden of organizing an elaborate family Halloween costume or staying up until 3am hand making a piñata for a kid's birthday party, I'd agree she brought this on herself.

Making sure your kid is wearing the performance outfit that school or an activity has instructed them to wear is not optional make-work. It's just part of being a parent in 2025. Same with buying a birthday gift for another kid's party. And no, kids under age 11 or 12, minimum, can't do this on their own and it would be unkind to tell them to do it - in fact part of the emotional labor of parenting is to involve younger kids in the purchasing of gifts for other people and discuss how you do it (budget, how to guard against getting them something they already have, etc.) so that when they are older they can do it themselves. Children don't develop skills like that sua sponte. You have to teach them. Which is part of the reason it's not really optional -- teaching your kids how to be good party guests and how to celebrate others is an essential part of a kid's cultural education and you shouldn't just skip it because you are lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Yes, my children are capable of saying what they want to give their friends for birthday presents. WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

You are completely glossing over the point that not all kids have X dress or Y shirt. Of course a kid can be asked to get their red dress on. My 7 year old- if we know its a red shirt- will remember and dress himself. Its that someone needs to purchase said item to participate and not everyone wants to overconsume.