Fake Feminist

[Anonymous]

Geez, I went 50/50 with my husband until he lost his job. Now I do 100% of the earning and he does 70% of the household responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman, and I know many women who have extremely misogynist views but claim to be feminist. They are often openly very critical of other women for not conforming to beauty expectations, judge the worth of other women by looks, their husband's income, and material goods.

Most of them are college educated, liberal (I am also liberal), and UMC.

Their feminism is mostly performative. I do think they genuinely care about abortion rights for all women. But beyond that, they mostly want privileges for themselves, which they will call feminism, and don't think much about how women in general fare in the world. They might *say* they care, but they don't.

The part that bothers me the most is the willingness to exploit the cheap labor of poor and immigrant women in order to realize their career goals or "egalitarian" marriages. They will rely on this labor to care for their children, clean their homes, etc. Their husbands of course also consider themselves feminists, as they rely on a small army of other women to do all the caretaking. Sometimes their mothers also perform some of this work (almost never fathers).

If you ask them questions about this set up, they get mad. But they fervently believe they are feminists. It's fascinating.

I don't see how hiring paid nannies and cleaning staff for the household is exploitation. Seems like you are Marxist or something, not a feminist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman, and I know many women who have extremely misogynist views but claim to be feminist. They are often openly very critical of other women for not conforming to beauty expectations, judge the worth of other women by looks, their husband's income, and material goods.

Most of them are college educated, liberal (I am also liberal), and UMC.

Their feminism is mostly performative. I do think they genuinely care about abortion rights for all women. But beyond that, they mostly want privileges for themselves, which they will call feminism, and don't think much about how women in general fare in the world. They might *say* they care, but they don't.

The part that bothers me the most is the willingness to exploit the cheap labor of poor and immigrant women in order to realize their career goals or "egalitarian" marriages. They will rely on this labor to care for their children, clean their homes, etc. Their husbands of course also consider themselves feminists, as they rely on a small army of other women to do all the caretaking. Sometimes their mothers also perform some of this work (almost never fathers).

If you ask them questions about this set up, they get mad. But they fervently believe they are feminists. It's fascinating.

I don't see how hiring paid nannies and cleaning staff for the household is exploitation. Seems like you are Marxist or something, not a feminist

You missed her point. She’s saying these women are holding themselves up as women’s rights activists while relying on other women to maintain an illusion of equality in their marriage, that only comes as the expense of other women’s labor.

To that PP however, I’d say this isn’t fake feminism, but more an absorption of the unavoidable patriarchy they find themselves in. They wouldn’t be looking for extra help if their husbands actually stepped up, but they don’t. They pick the kids up from travel sports 1/2 the time and occasionally clean the kitchen and furtively glance around waiting for audible praise (and often getting it) while they do either.

Tldr; I agree that these women exploit other women. But blaming them misses the point of who is pulling the levers here: men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman, and I know many women who have extremely misogynist views but claim to be feminist. They are often openly very critical of other women for not conforming to beauty expectations, judge the worth of other women by looks, their husband's income, and material goods.

Most of them are college educated, liberal (I am also liberal), and UMC.

Their feminism is mostly performative. I do think they genuinely care about abortion rights for all women. But beyond that, they mostly want privileges for themselves, which they will call feminism, and don't think much about how women in general fare in the world. They might *say* they care, but they don't.

The part that bothers me the most is the willingness to exploit the cheap labor of poor and immigrant women in order to realize their career goals or "egalitarian" marriages. They will rely on this labor to care for their children, clean their homes, etc. Their husbands of course also consider themselves feminists, as they rely on a small army of other women to do all the caretaking. Sometimes their mothers also perform some of this work (almost never fathers).

If you ask them questions about this set up, they get mad. But they fervently believe they are feminists. It's fascinating.

I don't see how hiring paid nannies and cleaning staff for the household is exploitation. Seems like you are Marxist or something, not a feminist

You missed her point. She’s saying these women are holding themselves up as women’s rights activists while relying on other women to maintain an illusion of equality in their marriage, that only comes as the expense of other women’s labor.

To that PP however, I’d say this isn’t fake feminism, but more an absorption of the unavoidable patriarchy they find themselves in. They wouldn’t be looking for extra help if their husbands actually stepped up, but they don’t. They pick the kids up from travel sports 1/2 the time and occasionally clean the kitchen and furtively glance around waiting for audible praise (and often getting it) while they do either.

Tldr; I agree that these women exploit other women. But blaming them misses the point of who is pulling the levers here: men.

I don't think that relying on paid labor to maintain household is exploitation in any way. It was used by humanity since its very existence. People sell their labor and other skills every day doesn't matter the profession

You are definitely a Marxist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminist here. Expecting the man to pay for everything is not cool. And it comes at a price, be it sexual expectations, loss of respect, weird power dynamic, or simply reinforcing stereotypical gender roles.

If one person makes more and both parties are comfortable, that person can pay more. But both parties should be paying and taking on that responsibility. It feels nice to be treated!

I am also a feminist and I agree with that approach. Particular after the exclusivity is established and the relationship is more long term. But OP's GF seems to be in a dare financial situation. Men usually cover everything when woman is that much in debt paying for kids college etc. It was OP's CHOICE to date another broke woman, after divorcing his ex-wife who, according to him, also couldn't contribute as equal partner.

Why does OP keep choosing women who cannot contribute financially at his own standards? He should be screening for women who have similar lifestyle to his

My guess. is that OP actually enjoys the sexual benefits, likes to control with money maybe even subconsciously. It's nice to always have a partner he can put down, blame her for something, tell her she's not worthy his greatness, and feels well above her, right?

I think you are confusing OP with another PP who was married to a fake feminist. OP never said that he was married before.

[Anonymous]

or he never talked about his previous relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife, the product of waspy boarding schools and a cushy upbringing, became a vocal "anti-white-patriarchy" progressive who believes women got and still get a raw deal.

Her raw deal included making $100k with summers off while contributing ZERO to mortgage, utilities, car payments / insurance, phone costs, college savings, vacation flights, hotels, college savings, tech equipment, kids' gear, and 95% of restaurant dinners. Yep, I made more -- but < $250k.

Maybe she is an outlier, but I'm not so sure.

Why did you marry her?

Some people are just users and act like a victim and hide behind any term whether it’s feminist or whatever else.

It's quite ironic that you say the woman is the user, but in reality men are the real users, displacing much of the work of home and life onto women in the relational sphere, and much other kinds of administrative and relational work in the work world.

Why would a man who earns more expect to go 50/50 instead of a prorated portion according to income? That is using the woman. Why would a man expect a woman to come over and cook for his kids when her kids are not there. That is using a woman to provide parenting services to children that are not hers. OFC, if I was invited to someone else's home, I wouldn't dream of cooking for them. If they weren't prepared to cook a meal in their home, I would expect them to order out.

It's weird how men with money don't recognize that when they expect a 50/50 financial contribution that's "equality" but they aren't willing to take care of their own business (their own children) fully on their own instead, expecting another woman to contribute, i.e. they aren't willing to recognize 50/50 in areas of life which require effort but that effort can't be measured by 50/50 in terms of payment.

LOL! where did you read that OP's gf is paying anything? She is paying 0 and not contributing in any other way either and that's why she is a fake feminist. She is just using OP and lazy that doesn't want to take care of anything.

Because she's in the red financially and OP is net positive. OP chose to date the woman in the red/large debts. I wouldn't expect a man pay anything if I knew they were in need and we were in love. Women support unemployed husbands all the time.
OP needs to date someone his age in his financial position if he wants equal contribution.

This is so true. Women who just pick feminism when it suits them but not at the time of paying bills are super fake and ended up getting what they deserve. Very soon, OP would leave this woman and if she thinks that sex or body is needed to attract other men then she would progressively get worse partners as she age. Worried thing is that she is making her daughter think like that too and this would lead into generational pain and sugaring for Op's gf and her family but when did she care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Geez, I went 50/50 with my husband until he lost his job. Now I do 100% of the earning and he does 70% of the household responsibilities.

Good for you, PP, a true feminist. You step up when it counts and not leave your partner when things get tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman, and I know many women who have extremely misogynist views but claim to be feminist. They are often openly very critical of other women for not conforming to beauty expectations, judge the worth of other women by looks, their husband's income, and material goods.

Most of them are college educated, liberal (I am also liberal), and UMC.

Their feminism is mostly performative. I do think they genuinely care about abortion rights for all women. But beyond that, they mostly want privileges for themselves, which they will call feminism, and don't think much about how women in general fare in the world. They might *say* they care, but they don't.

The part that bothers me the most is the willingness to exploit the cheap labor of poor and immigrant women in order to realize their career goals or "egalitarian" marriages. They will rely on this labor to care for their children, clean their homes, etc. Their husbands of course also consider themselves feminists, as they rely on a small army of other women to do all the caretaking. Sometimes their mothers also perform some of this work (almost never fathers).

If you ask them questions about this set up, they get mad. But they fervently believe they are feminists. It's fascinating.

I don't see how hiring paid nannies and cleaning staff for the household is exploitation. Seems like you are Marxist or something, not a feminist

You missed her point. She’s saying these women are holding themselves up as women’s rights activists while relying on other women to maintain an illusion of equality in their marriage, that only comes as the expense of other women’s labor.

To that PP however, I’d say this isn’t fake feminism, but more an absorption of the unavoidable patriarchy they find themselves in. They wouldn’t be looking for extra help if their husbands actually stepped up, but they don’t. They pick the kids up from travel sports 1/2 the time and occasionally clean the kitchen and furtively glance around waiting for audible praise (and often getting it) while they do either.

Tldr; I agree that these women exploit other women. But blaming them misses the point of who is pulling the levers here: men.

DP. Exactly.

I am a feminist, and the very first thing I want for myself in terms of equity’s the right to be a-hole, in the same way men can be. Fell free to judge me for it, that is for my a-hole behavior but, crucially, without moaning “but you are a wooooooman”.

No one ever tries to take accomplished men to task for hiring out the “male” household tasks: cleaning the gutters, mowing the lawn, doing plumbing, electrical and other construction work on their houses, repairing their cars and appliances, etc. etc. It’s only when a woman achieves something, there is immediate “but who cooked her dinner and who wiped her kids’ butts?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife, the product of waspy boarding schools and a cushy upbringing, became a vocal "anti-white-patriarchy" progressive who believes women got and still get a raw deal.

Her raw deal included making $100k with summers off while contributing ZERO to mortgage, utilities, car payments / insurance, phone costs, college savings, vacation flights, hotels, college savings, tech equipment, kids' gear, and 95% of restaurant dinners. Yep, I made more -- but < $250k.

Maybe she is an outlier, but I'm not so sure.

Why did you marry her?

Some people are just users and act like a victim and hide behind any term whether it’s feminist or whatever else.

It's quite ironic that you say the woman is the user, but in reality men are the real users, displacing much of the work of home and life onto women in the relational sphere, and much other kinds of administrative and relational work in the work world.

Why would a man who earns more expect to go 50/50 instead of a prorated portion according to income? That is using the woman. Why would a man expect a woman to come over and cook for his kids when her kids are not there. That is using a woman to provide parenting services to children that are not hers. OFC, if I was invited to someone else's home, I wouldn't dream of cooking for them. If they weren't prepared to cook a meal in their home, I would expect them to order out.

It's weird how men with money don't recognize that when they expect a 50/50 financial contribution that's "equality" but they aren't willing to take care of their own business (their own children) fully on their own instead, expecting another woman to contribute, i.e. they aren't willing to recognize 50/50 in areas of life which require effort but that effort can't be measured by 50/50 in terms of payment.

LOL! where did you read that OP's gf is paying anything? She is paying 0 and not contributing in any other way either and that's why she is a fake feminist. She is just using OP and lazy that doesn't want to take care of anything.

Because she's in the red financially and OP is net positive. OP chose to date the woman in the red/large debts. I wouldn't expect a man pay anything if I knew they were in need and we were in love. Women support unemployed husbands all the time.
OP needs to date someone his age in his financial position if he wants equal contribution.

This is so true. Women who just pick feminism when it suits them but not at the time of paying bills are super fake and ended up getting what they deserve. Very soon, OP would leave this woman and if she thinks that sex or body is needed to attract other men then she would progressively get worse partners as she age. Worried thing is that she is making her daughter think like that too and this would lead into generational pain and sugaring for Op's gf and her family but when did she care.

It’ seems like OPs GF simply can’t afford paying for anything . Not that she has the money but choose not to contribute
It’s a case scenario similar to supporting unemployed husband.
You also can switch the tables and ask why OP even dates a woman who is deeply in debt if he didn’t plan to support her financially ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am dating my recent gf of 6 months and she is 42. Overall, talks a big game that she is a feminist and women's rights etc but never go 50-50 on anything. I am very liberal and progressive and agree with most of the things she says about women etc but don't understand why her walk is different than her talk. I like her and have no problem spending $s as I make a lot more than her but she sometime acts like an entitled person and wants man to take care of her like in traditional setting. Not only her, but she is also teaching her young daughter to not go 50-50 on anything with her bf and counts a small thing such as driving to see him for 50 miles as enough contribution that he should take care of all the expenses for the weekend such as hotel, food, going out for drinks, etc. Is she really a feminist if her beliefs and values are in such a way that she can't even afford her own self?

No. Neither are you for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dating my recent gf of 6 months and she is 42. Overall, talks a big game that she is a feminist and women's rights etc but never go 50-50 on anything. I am very liberal and progressive and agree with most of the things she says about women etc but don't understand why her walk is different than her talk. I like her and have no problem spending $s as I make a lot more than her but she sometime acts like an entitled person and wants man to take care of her like in traditional setting. Not only her, but she is also teaching her young daughter to not go 50-50 on anything with her bf and counts a small thing such as driving to see him for 50 miles as enough contribution that he should take care of all the expenses for the weekend such as hotel, food, going out for drinks, etc. Is she really a feminist if her beliefs and values are in such a way that she can't even afford her own self?

No. Neither are you for that matter.

It's ok if OP is not a feminist because he is not claiming to be one. Issue is that his GF is a hypocrite and just takes advantage to whatever she could get and cherry pick everything for her benefits. She has to be a good human first before her values and fight for feminism come into play.

[Anonymous]

Sounds a bit similar cases when women go on and on about 50/50 with babies, but the moment the father dares to have an opinion or method different from her's it all of a sudden about a "mother's special intuition" and the "special mother bond" and on and on, which, in practice, means she will make all of the important decisions and her judgment and emotions trumps her husband's. Really, women just want what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dating my recent gf of 6 months and she is 42. Overall, talks a big game that she is a feminist and women's rights etc but never go 50-50 on anything. I am very liberal and progressive and agree with most of the things she says about women etc but don't understand why her walk is different than her talk. I like her and have no problem spending $s as I make a lot more than her but she sometime acts like an entitled person and wants man to take care of her like in traditional setting. Not only her, but she is also teaching her young daughter to not go 50-50 on anything with her bf and counts a small thing such as driving to see him for 50 miles as enough contribution that he should take care of all the expenses for the weekend such as hotel, food, going out for drinks, etc. Is she really a feminist if her beliefs and values are in such a way that she can't even afford her own self?

No. Neither are you for that matter.

It's ok if OP is not a feminist because he is not claiming to be one. Issue is that his GF is a hypocrite and just takes advantage to whatever she could get and cherry pick everything for her benefits. She has to be a good human first before her values and fight for feminism come into play.

Try to find a single feminist, just one, that is not a hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dating my recent gf of 6 months and she is 42. Overall, talks a big game that she is a feminist and women's rights etc but never go 50-50 on anything. I am very liberal and progressive and agree with most of the things she says about women etc but don't understand why her walk is different than her talk. I like her and have no problem spending $s as I make a lot more than her but she sometime acts like an entitled person and wants man to take care of her like in traditional setting. Not only her, but she is also teaching her young daughter to not go 50-50 on anything with her bf and counts a small thing such as driving to see him for 50 miles as enough contribution that he should take care of all the expenses for the weekend such as hotel, food, going out for drinks, etc. Is she really a feminist if her beliefs and values are in such a way that she can't even afford her own self?

No. Neither are you for that matter.

It's ok if OP is not a feminist because he is not claiming to be one. Issue is that his GF is a hypocrite and just takes advantage to whatever she could get and cherry pick everything for her benefits. She has to be a good human first before her values and fight for feminism come into play.

Try to find a single feminist, just one, that is not a hypocrite.

This depends entirely on how you define feminism. Some simply take it to mean what's best fort the woman in any given situation conflict and advocate as such. Through that lens, the positions aren't really hypocritical.