Notre Dame Drops ‘Catholic Mission’ Language From Staff Values

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

There are several younger girls who wear mantillas at our middle of the road NOVA Catholic masses. Yes, there is an appetite for more traditional liturgy--one of my daughters is in choir and prefers to sing in Latin--but I also think they think it looks cute. I don't think mantillas -----> tradwives.

What’s a mantilla?

Catholic women used to have to wear a veil over their head in the church during Mass.

When the requirement went away, it quickly disappeared as an American cultural tradition.

This is people bringing that back . . . it is no longer required but is not barred. In modern context it is usually taken as a sign of agreement with a trend toward increased conservatism, the kind that in Catholic Churches goes hand in hand with Opus Dei, Latin Mass, and publicly disagreeing with any pope that is more focused on the things Jesus said to do in the Gospels than fighting abortion, divorce, and the Gays. It is not strictly a sign of conservatism and can (a little naively, usually) be a sign of modesty and outward devotion.

The specific term mantilla (MON-TEA-UH in faux phonetic English) is specifically taken from the Spanish version which was once common for Spanish women in contexts beyond Church even though it was an overwhelmingly Catholic country. The big black thing draped over your head, etc.

If you haven't heard of a mantilla, it's probably a good sign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

Abrego Garcia was wearing a t-shirt and baseball hat. It was not about what he was wearing. It was about pure racism. Late the administration called it a "clerical error". Then, later, tattoos that were lazing photoshopped onto his hand and Trump trotted those images out as truth. A full breakdown of our rule of law.

Have no thoughts about mantillas, but no .. the Albrego Garcia case was not about what he was wearing.

If you read the DHS statements, Abrego Garcia’s arrest was absolutely pinned on what he was wearing. DHS said this: “When arrested, [Abrego Garcia] was wearing a sweatshirt with roles of money covering the ears, mouth, and eyes of presidents on various currency denominations. This is a known MS-13 gang symbol of see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.”

Yes. And they lied. He was wearing a bulls hat and a sweatshirt commonly sold by FashionNova.

when cops arrest people especially when they profile people, they make up reasons.

All charges were dropped because the prosecutor determined they profiled him and had no reasonable suspicion, so they got all butt hurt and handed him over to ICE where another court found that he could not be deported.

Which means he was document, he never committed a crime and he was here legally.

He was profiled for the color of his skin but the cops said... well he was wearing a Bulls hat and we all know gang members love the bulls. Which is bull.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

Abrego Garcia was wearing a t-shirt and baseball hat. It was not about what he was wearing. It was about pure racism. Late the administration called it a "clerical error". Then, later, tattoos that were lazing photoshopped onto his hand and Trump trotted those images out as truth. A full breakdown of our rule of law.

Have no thoughts about mantillas, but no .. the Albrego Garcia case was not about what he was wearing.

If you read the DHS statements, Abrego Garcia’s arrest was absolutely pinned on what he was wearing. DHS said this: “When arrested, [Abrego Garcia] was wearing a sweatshirt with roles of money covering the ears, mouth, and eyes of presidents on various currency denominations. This is a known MS-13 gang symbol of see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.”

Yes. And they lied. He was wearing a bulls hat and a sweatshirt commonly sold by FashionNova.

when cops arrest people especially when they profile people, they make up reasons.

All charges were dropped because the prosecutor determined they profiled him and had no reasonable suspicion, so they got all butt hurt and handed him over to ICE where another court found that he could not be deported.

Which means he was document, he never committed a crime and he was here legally.

He was profiled for the color of his skin but the cops said... well he was wearing a Bulls hat and we all know gang members love the bulls. Which is bull.

That is my point. Abrego Garcia shouldn't have been profiled. Leta dtopnkaiing assumptions about people. Lets not assume these girls will be trad wives and drop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

Abrego Garcia was wearing a t-shirt and baseball hat. It was not about what he was wearing. It was about pure racism. Late the administration called it a "clerical error". Then, later, tattoos that were lazing photoshopped onto his hand and Trump trotted those images out as truth. A full breakdown of our rule of law.

Have no thoughts about mantillas, but no .. the Albrego Garcia case was not about what he was wearing.

If you read the DHS statements, Abrego Garcia’s arrest was absolutely pinned on what he was wearing. DHS said this: “When arrested, [Abrego Garcia] was wearing a sweatshirt with roles of money covering the ears, mouth, and eyes of presidents on various currency denominations. This is a known MS-13 gang symbol of see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.”

Yes. And they lied. He was wearing a bulls hat and a sweatshirt commonly sold by FashionNova.

when cops arrest people especially when they profile people, they make up reasons.

All charges were dropped because the prosecutor determined they profiled him and had no reasonable suspicion, so they got all butt hurt and handed him over to ICE where another court found that he could not be deported.

Which means he was document, he never committed a crime and he was here legally.

He was profiled for the color of his skin but the cops said... well he was wearing a Bulls hat and we all know gang members love the bulls. Which is bull.

That is my point. Abrego Garcia shouldn't have been profiled. Leta dtopnkaiing assumptions about people. Lets not assume these girls will be trad wives and drop it.

I agree that we should not profile anybody but Bulls jersey has nothing to do with gangs and a matilla on a young girls probably has a correlation.

[Anonymous]

On a different ND note, this is worth a read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/cj-carr-notre-dame-football

[Anonymous]

PP: I'm the previous poster. People can wear what they want, but the clothes we select usually convey the image we want to embody, especially if they are strong signafiers (like mantillas or MAGA hats).

Wait what?!?! so now we’ve thrown away women’s rights and safe spaces and we’ve also gone away from the ‘ girls can wear whatever they want for themselves’ statements?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP: I'm the previous poster. People can wear what they want, but the clothes we select usually convey the image we want to embody, especially if they are strong signafiers (like mantillas or MAGA hats).

Wait what?!?! so now we’ve thrown away women’s rights and safe spaces and we’ve also gone away from the ‘ girls can wear whatever they want for themselves’ statements?

I think your conflating ideas... nobody said that the women at catholic schools can't wear something over their head for tradition, and you are assuming that a woman who wants to be a traditional wife is something that is bad, yes a woman can wear what she wants and she can be what she wants, which includes a traditional wife.

Not you can't look at a woman in a tight skirt and r@pe her because you think she is "asking for it".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

There are several younger girls who wear mantillas at our middle of the road NOVA Catholic masses. Yes, there is an appetite for more traditional liturgy--one of my daughters is in choir and prefers to sing in Latin--but I also think they think it looks cute. I don't think mantillas -----> tradwives.

What’s a mantilla?

Catholic women used to have to wear a veil over their head in the church during Mass.

When the requirement went away, it quickly disappeared as an American cultural tradition.

This is people bringing that back . . . it is no longer required but is not barred. In modern context it is usually taken as a sign of agreement with a trend toward increased conservatism, the kind that in Catholic Churches goes hand in hand with Opus Dei, Latin Mass, and publicly disagreeing with any pope that is more focused on the things Jesus said to do in the Gospels than fighting abortion, divorce, and the Gays. It is not strictly a sign of conservatism and can (a little naively, usually) be a sign of modesty and outward devotion.

The specific term mantilla (MON-TEA-UH in faux phonetic English) is specifically taken from the Spanish version which was once common for Spanish women in contexts beyond Church even though it was an overwhelmingly Catholic country. The big black thing draped over your head, etc.

If you haven't heard of a mantilla, it's probably a good sign.

Wow, thank you for this helpful explanation and context. I'm a protestant Christian and was not understanding why we are talking about some seemingly Spanish word in this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

There are several younger girls who wear mantillas at our middle of the road NOVA Catholic masses. Yes, there is an appetite for more traditional liturgy--one of my daughters is in choir and prefers to sing in Latin--but I also think they think it looks cute. I don't think mantillas -----> tradwives.

What’s a mantilla?

Catholic women used to have to wear a veil over their head in the church during Mass.

When the requirement went away, it quickly disappeared as an American cultural tradition.

This is people bringing that back . . . it is no longer required but is not barred. In modern context it is usually taken as a sign of agreement with a trend toward increased conservatism, the kind that in Catholic Churches goes hand in hand with Opus Dei, Latin Mass, and publicly disagreeing with any pope that is more focused on the things Jesus said to do in the Gospels than fighting abortion, divorce, and the Gays. It is not strictly a sign of conservatism and can (a little naively, usually) be a sign of modesty and outward devotion.

The specific term mantilla (MON-TEA-UH in faux phonetic English) is specifically taken from the Spanish version which was once common for Spanish women in contexts beyond Church even though it was an overwhelmingly Catholic country. The big black thing draped over your head, etc.

If you haven't heard of a mantilla, it's probably a good sign.

Wow, thank you for this helpful explanation and context. I'm a protestant Christian and was not understanding why we are talking about some seemingly Spanish word in this discussion.

I was raised Christian orthodox and was required to wear one of these at church. Actually a hat would suffice as well. Basically women and girls were required to cover their heads. It is no longer the case, but some still embrace the tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I am not in favor. I work at Georgetown and it has moved far from its Catholic mission.

wn

Georgetown is Jesuit (not just "Catholic"). You sure they've moved away from the Jesuit mission?

This is not the differnce you think it is.

My kid goes to a Jesuit school. I know exactly what the difference is between traditional, conservative Catholic and Jesuit Catholic.

WWJD? Maybe you need some Jesuit teaching in your life so you can get reacquainted about what it is to see the good in all people and serve others. ALL PEOPLE.

I'm not the first poster on this thread, but Jesuit teaching is the same as nealry every other order. Even they will tell you that. Most people just don't know anyting about other orders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I am not in favor. I work at Georgetown and it has moved far from its Catholic mission.

wn

Georgetown is Jesuit (not just "Catholic"). You sure they've moved away from the Jesuit mission?

This is not the differnce you think it is.

My kid goes to a Jesuit school. I know exactly what the difference is between traditional, conservative Catholic and Jesuit Catholic.

WWJD? Maybe you need some Jesuit teaching in your life so you can get reacquainted about what it is to see the good in all people and serve others. ALL PEOPLE.

Many of us have had DCs in Jesuit schools, not to mention parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Many of us also attended Jesuit colleges, as did our parents, grandparents, and siblings, etc.
Jesuits are still Catholic. ND is not hurting for professors or applicants at the moment. Many people apply knowing it is unequivocally Catholic in doctrine and tradition. Not to say others shouldn’t be welcome. We have donated to ND for literally generations.I wish they would explain why they made this decision.

A post to the town hall about it is posted on page 1 -- OP's re line is terribley misleading. The school is not changing it's Catholic mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:traditional American catholics really hate the past few popes - aside from the hitler jugund one- so it might be that the university is distancing itself from the Vatican to keep its appeal to american catholics?

This is not true. You are talking about a small fringe group of Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No disagreement. The concern is why they need to make the change and the intended or unintended consequences for the future.

OP's post is grossly misleading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

I'm a lifelong Catholic and they fact that we've gone from guitar mass/Vatican II/Catholic Worker House movement to this in my lifetime makes my hear hurt.

Why would 30 out of 13,174 students wearing a piece of lace in their hair hurt you? I mean, I wouldn't wear it and the nuns I know don't either, but why shouldn't someone else be allowed to make that fashion choice in church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a different ND note, this is worth a read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/cj-carr-notre-dame-football

I'm not sure how going to ND counts as going against the grain. It's a pretty good, popular college. I don't know anyone who would raise their eyebrows over someone attending.