Notre Dame Drops ‘Catholic Mission’ Language From Staff Values

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I think is is lovely that young women are exploring this. I also think it is wonderful to know that they can decide (or not) after a time it is not for them. That's the beauty of living in a country where all religions are accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

It was basilica mass on a holy day, not dorm mass, fwiw. And, the girls had on jeans and sweatshirts with the mantillas (and, I don’t know for sure they were notre dame students, just that they looked college age. Could have been your group, SMC girls, who knows). I am a pretty liberal Catholic and found it charming (not quite the right word) as it isn’t something I personally see often and made me curious and think a bit on faith traditions.

no, it's a weird offshoot of MAGA and trad wife movement. women who are encouraged to put aside career ambitions and have 10 kids and go to daily mass.

Wow that's quite the take. Most young Catholics are not MAGA and the trad wife movement has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

It was basilica mass on a holy day, not dorm mass, fwiw. And, the girls had on jeans and sweatshirts with the mantillas (and, I don’t know for sure they were notre dame students, just that they looked college age. Could have been your group, SMC girls, who knows). I am a pretty liberal Catholic and found it charming (not quite the right word) as it isn’t something I personally see often and made me curious and think a bit on faith traditions.

no, it's a weird offshoot of MAGA and trad wife movement. women who are encouraged to put aside career ambitions and have 10 kids and go to daily mass.

Wow that's quite the take. Most young Catholics are not MAGA and the trad wife movement has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

most mantilla-wearing college students are def MAGA. and yes, there's a whole catholic mommy influencer game out there that is very similar to the trad wife influencer game. and yes, there will be something they want to sell you or affiliate marketing links at least

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

Abrego Garcia was wearing a t-shirt and baseball hat. It was not about what he was wearing. It was about pure racism. Late the administration called it a "clerical error". Then, later, tattoos that were lazing photoshopped onto his hand and Trump trotted those images out as truth. A full breakdown of our rule of law.

Have no thoughts about mantillas, but no .. the Albrego Garcia case was not about what he was wearing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

PP: I'm the previous poster. People can wear what they want, but the clothes we select usually convey the image we want to embody, especially if they are strong signafiers (like mantillas or MAGA hats).

There are all sorts of Catholics and all are welcome in the big tent church, but the Vance-style strain of pre-Vatican II get the women back in the kitchen and silent does threaten me and I wouldn't want my kid to be surrounded by that as a norm.

I don't think mantilla-wearing trad Catholics are dominant at ND, and I'd prefer my kids to be in an ideologically diverse space rather than a social-justice enclave. But pretending that mantillas on very young women don't link with non-feminist ideas is putting your head in the sand.

[Anonymous]

Oh great, dropping 'Catholic Mission' just as we face a set of moral challenges from from the Right. Surprising to see USCCB coming at the challenges of the day as the thought leader rather than our Catholic universities.

Not that I like Georgetown's approach. When I was there, there seemed more public information about Passover Seder then there was about anything regarding religious life. And the scholarship seemed to be totally detached from Catholic Social Thought, except for the specific entities directed at the topic.

I'm Catholic but from rural America and was very surprised at how differently modern Catholic schools, outside of the few urban core schools, see their missions so differently from what I thought of as the Mission of the Church. Most of these schools seem to position themselves as 'not-so-waspy' Elite with massive investment in sports success. Think St. Johns, Visitation, or Paul VI all the way to Notre Dame in Indiana, plus the gazillion-a-year elite Catholic schools in every suburban metro area in America. None of those places are making saints. I wouldn't be surprised if it really were the opposite.

I don't know if I complain or shrug and say 'this is what we should have expected.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh great, dropping 'Catholic Mission' just as we face a set of moral challenges from from the Right. Surprising to see USCCB coming at the challenges of the day as the thought leader rather than our Catholic universities.

Not that I like Georgetown's approach. When I was there, there seemed more public information about Passover Seder then there was about anything regarding religious life. And the scholarship seemed to be totally detached from Catholic Social Thought, except for the specific entities directed at the topic.

I'm Catholic but from rural America and was very surprised at how differently modern Catholic schools, outside of the few urban core schools, see their missions so differently from what I thought of as the Mission of the Church. Most of these schools seem to position themselves as 'not-so-waspy' Elite with massive investment in sports success. Think St. Johns, Visitation, or Paul VI all the way to Notre Dame in Indiana, plus the gazillion-a-year elite Catholic schools in every suburban metro area in America. None of those places are making saints. I wouldn't be surprised if it really were the opposite.

I don't know if I complain or shrug and say 'this is what we should have expected.'

The council of Bishops started the moral problem with the right.

Notre Dame isn’t moving away from Catholic values. They just listed what they were so that nobody’s confused since in the past eight years catholic values include taking away constitutional rights and kidnapping people off of the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are just trying to expand the pool from which they can hire. Maybe prospects were objecting. Seems unlikely there would be a downstream effect in the teaching itself.

Yes, ND is probably concerned about having too many Catholic staff. I mean when kids enroll at ND they sure don’t expect to encounter a lot of Catholics, right? Hello? Is this thing on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh great, dropping 'Catholic Mission' just as we face a set of moral challenges from from the Right. Surprising to see USCCB coming at the challenges of the day as the thought leader rather than our Catholic universities.

Not that I like Georgetown's approach. When I was there, there seemed more public information about Passover Seder then there was about anything regarding religious life. And the scholarship seemed to be totally detached from Catholic Social Thought, except for the specific entities directed at the topic.

I'm Catholic but from rural America and was very surprised at how differently modern Catholic schools, outside of the few urban core schools, see their missions so differently from what I thought of as the Mission of the Church. Most of these schools seem to position themselves as 'not-so-waspy' Elite with massive investment in sports success. Think St. Johns, Visitation, or Paul VI all the way to Notre Dame in Indiana, plus the gazillion-a-year elite Catholic schools in every suburban metro area in America. None of those places are making saints. I wouldn't be surprised if it really were the opposite.

I don't know if I complain or shrug and say 'this is what we should have expected.'

For crying out loud, they didn’t “drop the Catholic mission.” It’s still right there, at the top: “In all that we do we seek to advance Notre Dame’s mission as a global, Catholic research university.”

Also, newsflash: an announcement about a Passover Seder is about religious life.

[Anonymous]

The Catholic Church is generally accepted as a problematic institution. Any university that wants top talent as staff or students is going to read the writing on the wall. If you are Catholic and have not realized this, you need to get your head out of the sand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

+1

It’s fabricated alarm. The right-wing media machine is jumping into a frenzy to desecrate a superb university.

ND is deeply Catholic, and filled with thoughtful, intelligent, nice students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

There are several younger girls who wear mantillas at our middle of the road NOVA Catholic masses. Yes, there is an appetite for more traditional liturgy--one of my daughters is in choir and prefers to sing in Latin--but I also think they think it looks cute. I don't think mantillas -----> tradwives.

What’s a mantilla?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Catholic Church is generally accepted as a problematic institution. Any university that wants top talent as staff or students is going to read the writing on the wall. If you are Catholic and have not realized this, you need to get your head out of the sand.

False. And what’s your religion, by the way? Do share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid there as well. The Catholic mission permeates the entire campus from his doem rector, dorm mass, Catholic focused service work, to praying at the grotto weekly. The school has a priest as President. The student section goes wild like it is a rockstar for Father Pete at football games. When I was at mass, there were probably 30 college girls in mantillas and jeans.

Yet he appreciates his friends of different faiths - his roommate is not Catholic. There are also a wide variety of opinion from conservative Catholics to liberal Catholics. This is all healthy.

I don’t think we need to create alarm over Notre Dame losing its Catholic way. For those lucky enough to attend (I am not an alum), seems like a great place.

Oh my. I'm an alum and never saw anyone in mantillas. I wonder if the student body is becoming more conservative?

Yeah -- I have a kid there and also find this concerning.

Mantillas on old ladies are charming. Matillas on young women--> future trad wives. Yuck.

I am the poster who saw these girls and I am sorry I brought it up. As I said, I have no idea if they were students vs outside tour group. I can only say they were young college-aged women who were respectfully attending mass. I have never worn a mantilla and thought it was a nice reminder that all manner of faiths are welcome. I also didn’t talk with them to know their beliefs on anything. Wasn’t this the whole issue in the Abrego Garcia case: that people assumed he was a gang member by what he was wearing? Please don’t assume they will be trad wife’s bc they wear mantillas. Certainly we can all put up with the sartorial choices of others without any need to judge.

Abrego Garcia was wearing a t-shirt and baseball hat. It was not about what he was wearing. It was about pure racism. Late the administration called it a "clerical error". Then, later, tattoos that were lazing photoshopped onto his hand and Trump trotted those images out as truth. A full breakdown of our rule of law.

Have no thoughts about mantillas, but no .. the Albrego Garcia case was not about what he was wearing.

If you read the DHS statements, Abrego Garcia’s arrest was absolutely pinned on what he was wearing. DHS said this: “When arrested, [Abrego Garcia] was wearing a sweatshirt with roles of money covering the ears, mouth, and eyes of presidents on various currency denominations. This is a known MS-13 gang symbol of see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.”