US will no longer be first in science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Private sector absolutely loves projects funded by government R&D grants and programs.

The Internet, for one. Developed by DARPA for the military and research, later on got a big government cash infusion to create the commercial backbone (yes, that was Al Gore). Multi-trillion dollar economy

GPS. Developed by DoD, now used in phones, logistics, everything

Touchscreens. Developed with funding by NSF and CIA

Microchips. Developed with funding from DARPA and NASA

LEDs - red LEDs first developed by Air Force funded project in the 1960s, now ubiquitous for lighting and all across the color spectrum

Accelerometers - used in cars, pacemakers, phones - funded by NIST and DoD

MRI - developed through NSF grant

LASIK eye surgery - NSF grant

CRISPR gene editing - NSF and NIH

Flu, Hepatitis B and other vaccines developed using NIH funding

Duolingo - NSF grant funding to develop and launch

Doppler radar for storm tracking - NSF funded research

Barcodes, closed captioning, many other technologies developed through NSF research

Satellites, deep sea exploration, 3D seismic imaging, and on and on and on

It frankly sickens me when Republicans take all of this for granted and for some reason thinks government does nothing and that everything we have is solely thanks to capitalists and billionaire investors, who the government mooches off of by making them pay taxes, when in fact most of it is the exact opposite, they made their billions thanks to government infrastructure and investments.

I think it was Oscar Wilde, who in the 1890s said "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

That so very much applies to modern American conservatives. They are fixated on the price tag of everything while being completely unaware of the true value of these things. They fail to comprehend the vast ROI of government investments. They complain about the cost of a clean river but ignore the worth of a child who drinks water from it. They will quote the market value of a tree but ignore the value of having clean air to breathe.

It’s because MAGA, to quote Ruth from Ozark, don’t know sh*t about f**k!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

Gun deaths and heart disease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

You really sound crazy and uninformed. This all started in 1972, with POTUS Richard Nixon going to China to open up political and trade relationships. And the Republican business establishment loved it pushing subsequent POTUS, both republican and democratic alike, for even more access to China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

You really sound crazy and uninformed. This all started in 1972, with POTUS Richard Nixon going to China to open up political and trade relationships. And the Republican business establishment loved it pushing subsequent POTUS, both republican and democratic alike, for even more access to China.

So, Democrats are like Nixon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

There’s some serious logic! Since our competitors eventually catch up to our tech, we can double-cross them by not developing any new tech, and turning into a third world country. That’ll show ‘em!

Exactly! Why invent things? We’ll just have to pay for them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

You really sound crazy and uninformed. This all started in 1972, with POTUS Richard Nixon going to China to open up political and trade relationships. And the Republican business establishment loved it pushing subsequent POTUS, both republican and democratic alike, for even more access to China.

So, Democrats are like Nixon?

Nixon was a Republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

Tech companies exploiting intelligent immigrants from india and china and other countries is a result of capitalism not democrats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

You really sound crazy and uninformed. This all started in 1972, with POTUS Richard Nixon going to China to open up political and trade relationships. And the Republican business establishment loved it pushing subsequent POTUS, both republican and democratic alike, for even more access to China.

So, Democrats are like Nixon?

I didn’t know Philomena Cunk was on DCUM!

[Anonymous]

WSJ has an article stating that the UK, China, Canada, France and Greece have all set up programs to recruit disaffected American scientists and researchers, both experienced and inexperienced. It should be easier to recruit the newly graduated inexperienced ones because Trump has axed the program that allows international students to stay and work for two years after graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

Gun deaths and heart disease.

Obesity and diabetics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

There’s some serious logic! Since our competitors eventually catch up to our tech, we can double-cross them by not developing any new tech, and turning into a third world country. That’ll show ‘em!

Exactly! Why invent things? We’ll just have to pay for them!

Or steal them. Or fund have the Vc money there, like how China owns half of Bostons life sciences market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WSJ has an article stating that the UK, China, Canada, France and Greece have all set up programs to recruit disaffected American scientists and researchers, both experienced and inexperienced. It should be easier to recruit the newly graduated inexperienced ones because Trump has axed the program that allows international students to stay and work for two years after graduation.

New grads? Going to compete with merit based stem grads of other countries with gated entrance exams every four years from age 5? Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ has an article stating that the UK, China, Canada, France and Greece have all set up programs to recruit disaffected American scientists and researchers, both experienced and inexperienced. It should be easier to recruit the newly graduated inexperienced ones because Trump has axed the program that allows international students to stay and work for two years after graduation.

New grads? Going to compete with merit based stem grads of other countries with gated entrance exams every four years from age 5? Ok.

I have worked in IT for 30 years. The field is completely saturated with H1 visa holders. Sure, some of them are very good, and hold advanced degrees and challenging-to-get certifications, but there are also a lot of them who are here who aren't all that good, or are doing mundane work that could and should be done by home-grown STEM grads. If you go on reddit there are many tech subreddits in different areas of tech where you'll see the frustration of those home-grown STEM grads sending resume after resume, application after application and not getting anywhere with it - because the job market is saturated. Yet every year we still issue over 400,000 H1 visas. And yet we still have this narrative of "American kids don't want to do STEM and are getting dumb degrees in underwater basket weaving and womens studies" which is bogus considering we're actively discouraging kids from pursuing STEM careers because of the crap going on in tech with foreign workers undercutting our own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ has an article stating that the UK, China, Canada, France and Greece have all set up programs to recruit disaffected American scientists and researchers, both experienced and inexperienced. It should be easier to recruit the newly graduated inexperienced ones because Trump has axed the program that allows international students to stay and work for two years after graduation.

New grads? Going to compete with merit based stem grads of other countries with gated entrance exams every four years from age 5? Ok.

Gated entrance exams aren't "every 5 years" - it's usually just high school (JEE/NEET/UPSC/Gaokao etc) and they don't necessarily make them any better students or job candidates. It's well known that China and India have entire massive cottage industries (prep schools, zhua bu ban cram centers, AI platforms, and even Gaokao villages in China or the Kota exam factories in India dedicated to exam prep) around how to game/hack/cheat those exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ has an article stating that the UK, China, Canada, France and Greece have all set up programs to recruit disaffected American scientists and researchers, both experienced and inexperienced. It should be easier to recruit the newly graduated inexperienced ones because Trump has axed the program that allows international students to stay and work for two years after graduation.

New grads? Going to compete with merit based stem grads of other countries with gated entrance exams every four years from age 5? Ok.

I have worked in IT for 30 years. The field is completely saturated with H1 visa holders. Sure, some of them are very good, and hold advanced degrees and challenging-to-get certifications, but there are also a lot of them who are here who aren't all that good, or are doing mundane work that could and should be done by home-grown STEM grads. If you go on reddit there are many tech subreddits in different areas of tech where you'll see the frustration of those home-grown STEM grads sending resume after resume, application after application and not getting anywhere with it - because the job market is saturated. Yet every year we still issue over 400,000 H1 visas. And yet we still have this narrative of "American kids don't want to do STEM and are getting dumb degrees in underwater basket weaving and womens studies" which is bogus considering we're actively discouraging kids from pursuing STEM careers because of the crap going on in tech with foreign workers undercutting our own.

And how and why is it that we give out 400k+ H1 visas for tech yet only 66k for agriculture, and another 60k or so for construction and hospitality, considering IT is saturated and US STEM grads are having a hard time, while there's SO MUCH more demand for workers in ag/construction/hospitality sector?