How to change Big Law culture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Future generations of AI will change the culture. The drudgery and drafting is a perfect fit for AI, not the current generation but
I’d expect in 5 years the capability will be there. The industry will resist it as long as they can but smart firms will start using it to cut costs, increase profits. They’ll start at the entry level work first so clients will still face time with the human lawyers.

About 15 years ago, we were being told that doc review would all be done by computers in the not-too-distant future. No one called it AI, but instead it was "machine learning." And yet however "machine learning" is being used, it really has not changed that doc review is a cash cow, and I'm sure biglaw is making more money off doc review than ever before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - DH does not make anywhere near 7 figure salary. Partners at his firm make somewhere between $600,000-+$9 million (at the high end). But the majority probably make around $800,000 or so. Obviously a lot of money but definitely not a million plus a year like everyone seems to think.

Oh I see, you’re just one step from the breadlines.

I’m very curious what you think about when you see your landscaping crew working on your yard on a day like today with 98 degree temps?

[Anonymous]

What’s screwed up is that people still pick it. I work at a law firm full of people that could easily get big law jobs but we all chose a smaller firm with a different culture. We make 1/2 to 1/10 of big law salaries (entry associates making about half but top partners making about 10% of their peers on big law). And the associates are always asking for more money. People want the money and that’s the choice they make. Also clients are paying those rates precisely for the culture. If they wanted an answer in a reasonable time frame from someone working normal hours, they would ask their in house counsel and get the answer for a fraction of the price. Companies are paying the big bucks to outsource the sh-t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are probably afforded a very comfortable life as a result of your husband being a partner at Big Law. lots of people work just as hard or harder and don't have a fraction to show for it as your husband. He can move inhouse and take a pay cut which I'm sure you don't want him to do.

This.

If he’s a partner especially he’s making REAL money. Even first year associates and big law firms make insane money.

They are paying him A LOT for this. So cut your expenses so he can go in house or get over it.

Clients are paying a lot of money. They don’t want a week to get an answer on something.

[Anonymous]

That’s capitalism. There is a ton of money on the line; if they don’t make deadlines companies could lose $$$, which could translate to other job losses for their own workers and definitely unhappy shareholders.

So they will pay a lot to keep legal matters on track, and if your DH can’t keep the pace there is a long line of attorneys eager to work those hours to earn that paycheck.

Now what’s interesting is that there seem to be so many attorneys capable performing the work, albeit with long hours. Why doesn’t your DH go into a field like ML where they enjoy huge salaries but work much more low key hours, because there is not a long line of people capable of doing that work. He should pivot to a career with a moat, like advanced tech or a doctor which is gate kept by AMA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s capitalism. There is a ton of money on the line; if they don’t make deadlines companies could lose $$$, which could translate to other job losses for their own workers and definitely unhappy shareholders.

So they will pay a lot to keep legal matters on track, and if your DH can’t keep the pace there is a long line of attorneys eager to work those hours to earn that paycheck.

Now what’s interesting is that there seem to be so many attorneys capable performing the work, albeit with long hours. Why doesn’t your DH go into a field like ML where they enjoy huge salaries but work much more low key hours, because there is not a long line of people capable of doing that work. He should pivot to a career with a moat, like advanced tech or a doctor which is gate kept by AMA.

What a bizarre response. If OP’s husband is already a partner, he’s likely been at this 10-15 years which would make him squarely middle aged. It’s not exactly easy or quick to “pivot” and become a doctor in your 40s or 50s. Nor would that mean better hours or pay! PP must be a AI bot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s capitalism. There is a ton of money on the line; if they don’t make deadlines companies could lose $$$, which could translate to other job losses for their own workers and definitely unhappy shareholders.

So they will pay a lot to keep legal matters on track, and if your DH can’t keep the pace there is a long line of attorneys eager to work those hours to earn that paycheck.

Now what’s interesting is that there seem to be so many attorneys capable performing the work, albeit with long hours. Why doesn’t your DH go into a field like ML where they enjoy huge salaries but work much more low key hours, because there is not a long line of people capable of doing that work. He should pivot to a career with a moat, like advanced tech or a doctor which is gate kept by AMA.

Most doctors aren't making $600 to $800 per year, and definitely not in lifestyle practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - DH does not make anywhere near 7 figure salary. Partners at his firm make somewhere between $600,000-+$9 million (at the high end). But the majority probably make around $800,000 or so. Obviously a lot of money but definitely not a million plus a year like everyone seems to think.

So either it's not really Big Law or he's not an equity partner.

Lol, no. Most big law isn't New York V10. The average equity partner isn't making millions. Go back to the PEP tables and look at the spreads, particularly among the V50 to V100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - DH does not make anywhere near 7 figure salary. Partners at his firm make somewhere between $600,000-+$9 million (at the high end). But the majority probably make around $800,000 or so. Obviously a lot of money but definitely not a million plus a year like everyone seems to think.

Oh no you are right. Like on just 800k a year you can probably only afford like a 2.5m house and to fully fund private K-12 plus college for all your kids plus multiple vacations abroad every year. It's not like you can buy a private plane or a French chateau. Like how can he make you live like this.

[Anonymous]

Genz won't put up with this crap along with millennials

[Anonymous]

Op, if you enjoy any of the following, please make sure you are willing to sacrifice all of them:

— expensive cars
— $2 million plus house
— vacation house
— regular dinners with a $300+ tab
— expensive event tickets on a regular basis
— constant wardrobe updates with designer clothes
— multiple vacations per year at 5 star hotels

Plenty of people are OK without these things. But the golden handcuffs are real. Having a spouse making $750k at a law firm versus $190k per year in govt is the difference between being able to afford these things and not being able to afford them.

[Anonymous]

With the exception of a few people, the majority of the posts on here are angry, defensive and judgmental. Just like Big Law!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you enjoy any of the following, please make sure you are willing to sacrifice all of them:

— expensive cars
— $2 million plus house
— vacation house
— regular dinners with a $300+ tab
— expensive event tickets on a regular basis
— constant wardrobe updates with designer clothes
— multiple vacations per year at 5 star hotels

Plenty of people are OK without these things. But the golden handcuffs are real. Having a spouse making $750k at a law firm versus $190k per year in govt is the difference between being able to afford these things and not being able to afford them.

Op - I don’t know why I am defending myself but we don’t do any of the things you listed above.

We bought our house for $700,000 10 years ago. We drive a mini van and a sedan. No vacation house or expensive vacations multiple times a year. I don’t even do stitch fix (mostly because I don’t care about clothes).

Our money has all gone towards paying off school loans, daycare for our kids, saving for retirement and college for our kids.

Our biggest splurges are every other year trips to somewhere nice and a fancy dinner out every other month if we can find time and a babysitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am guessing you just want to vent. There is no changing BigLaw. Clients pay huge money to use them, and as such expect top tier and rapid service. If your spouse can't take it then he needs to get out.

This. Come on, OP. You cannot have expected that kind of money for a 9-5 work-life balance gig. Don’t be ridiculous. There are plenty of other options for lawyers. I’m a lawyer working an average of 30 hours per week. But I don’t make anywhere close to the money your DH makes unless he is in his first year or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you enjoy any of the following, please make sure you are willing to sacrifice all of them:

— expensive cars
— $2 million plus house
— vacation house
— regular dinners with a $300+ tab
— expensive event tickets on a regular basis
— constant wardrobe updates with designer clothes
— multiple vacations per year at 5 star hotels

Plenty of people are OK without these things. But the golden handcuffs are real. Having a spouse making $750k at a law firm versus $190k per year in govt is the difference between being able to afford these things and not being able to afford them.

Op - I don’t know why I am defending myself but we don’t do any of the things you listed above.

We bought our house for $700,000 10 years ago. We drive a mini van and a sedan. No vacation house or expensive vacations multiple times a year. I don’t even do stitch fix (mostly because I don’t care about clothes).

Our money has all gone towards paying off school loans, daycare for our kids, saving for retirement and college for our kids.

Our biggest splurges are every other year trips to somewhere nice and a fancy dinner out every other month if we can find time and a babysitter.

One of the PP who bailed on BigLaw

I understand the frustration - as I mentioned - I saw co-workers who when into BigLaw planning on doing it for a few years, then getting sucked in. I almost did the same.

This is a DH problem. Nothing will change in BigLaw, or at least it won’t while your husband is still practicing.

Assuming you’ve paid off school loans, are done with daycare, and have a nice cushion for retirement and college - he can leave.

But it might be hard to find an in house position, depending on his practice area. And a lot of senior in house positions require in house experience.

My recommendation is to aim for a large company, where he isn’t the only lawyer, preferably a public company, ideally with European headquarters. But just getting out and starting on that track will only get harder the longer he stays.

The work is boring, and it’s hard being a cost center and a road bump, rather than the superstar, but the pay is pretty good, it’s only occasionally stressful, and the hours are great.

Unfortunately, if he doesn’t want to do it, it’s not going to happen.