Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?

[Anonymous]

You can find the statistics on AP calculus here
https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/program-summary-report-2022.pdf

About a thousand students take Calculus BC in 9th, if they can score a 5 that’s likely a notable accomplishment regarding the rigor of high school coursework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taking two years of math at the community college is not remotely worth the rigamarole. The commuting alone is a huge time suck and will inhibit time spent on ECs. And selective colleges do not regard community college classes nearly as highly as AP classes.

I have two kids at T20s. One finished high school with Calculus BC; the other with Multivariable. It's enough - even for STEM majors.

This makes no sense. If the kid is taking AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC at his high school, and diff and linear equations at the cc, why does it matter that selective colleges don't regard cc colleges as high? There are no AP diff or AP linear algebra classes.

DP. You're right the student would have the credit and pre-req if they complete at a community college. But I agree with the previous poster, college admissions are not looking for this and won't reward it. Also in many cases CC are online and don't require much rigamarole. But that means at best pre-recorded lectures, and all assessments and homework are just online packages the school has purchased. That's fine if the goal is credit, but worthless if looking to develop understanding further.

The course quality may vary at community colleges, it’s possible online classes are weaker than in person etc. At the same time the quality of the teachers at CC is net superiors to those in high school, having at least a master degree if not a PhD.

If community college classes can get you credit at UC Berkeley, calling them worthless is just misguided. They would at least reward them some with credit, but of course coursework is not everything for college admissions, you must have other things.

To the OP, yes it will have a benefit, its size will depend on the school and major. Once you pass a threshold for most rigorous coursework, it probably doesn’t matter that much particularly for very top universities and you’d have to focus on other things like extracurriculars, writing some good essays etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.

This correlates to our experience. Mine is studying Engineering at one of the ivies in the top 10 and it is rare to have Calc in 9th. My kid knows 1 in her Engineering advisee group of 30 kids and they are international . She knows 4 more including herself who did AP Calc in 10th in HS, but they were each the only one in their HS to do that, and only because the HS moved them up and had multiple post-BC-calc math levels. They placed out of BC but repeated Multivariable and linear algebra as the college level was much more in depth than high school or local college/dual enrollment . 9th grade Calculus only makes sense if there are advanced courses for the student to do later on, and they still may benefit from repeating the post-BC classes. With BC in 9th they may not remember it enough and need to repeat it which seems counterproductive.

Sounds like your advanced kid stood out enough to get into a top Ivy for college. Taking AP Calc in 10th sounds like where it kicks in for most.

DP. You're jumping to conclusions. It's an example of four students who took Calc in 10th and were still sufficiently interested in math to find themselves together in a top program years later. It does not mean every such kid ends up there, or that this is a path that will give OPs kid a bump. It's not the scraps of paper, it's what happens along the way.

[Anonymous]

No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?

Sound advice is to not plan your child’s education around what colleges might want in the future, or some doubtful statistics. Help your child figure out a coursework that’s rigorous and challenging but not overwhelming, regardless of who goes to Princeton.

If they can keep up with the coursework, getting As in class and 5 on the AP exam, it means the student is in the right class. If they are getting Bs, with 3 and 4 on the exams then it means they were accelerated too fast. Don’t slow down (for example Calculus AB followed by BC), just because you might run out of high school classes.

The downside of taking classes at community college is mostly related to schedule and figuring out logistics. How do they get there, can you drive, does it interfere with the high school schedule etc. I don’t see a big problem with not being in a high school environment, I think on the contrary the less hand holding might be beneficial to develop some independence. Many CC offer only asynchronous classes as another poster mentioned, this could solve many of these problems. In my view CC is better than dragging calculus over two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

They'll run out of *quality* HS classes. Every one of those would be taught much better at the college when they get there. The AP calc teachers are already hit or miss, not many kids have access to good teaching if they get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

They'll run out of *quality* HS classes. Every one of those would be taught much better at the college when they get there. The AP calc teachers are already hit or miss, not many kids have access to good teaching if they get ahead.

Ok so Algebra 1 & 2, Geometry and Precalculus are *quality* high school classes, but community college courses in multivariable, linear algebra and diff eq are not up there with them as far as high school quality is concerned. Suppose OPs student is doing really well right now in 8th grade Precalculus, and is considering enrolling in Calculus in 9th. What’s the advice? From what you’re saying, the should retake precalculus, follow with calculus AB, then BC and finally statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

They'll run out of *quality* HS classes. Every one of those would be taught much better at the college when they get there. The AP calc teachers are already hit or miss, not many kids have access to good teaching if they get ahead.

Ok so Algebra 1 & 2, Geometry and Precalculus are *quality* high school classes, but community college courses in multivariable, linear algebra and diff eq are not up there with them as far as high school quality is concerned. Suppose OPs student is doing really well right now in 8th grade Precalculus, and is considering enrolling in Calculus in 9th. What’s the advice? From what you’re saying, the should retake precalculus, follow with calculus AB, then BC and finally statistics.

NP. But my advice would be to retake pre calc, only bc I’d be suspicious of whatever version of precalc an 8th grader is taking- unless they are taking it in person at a high school. Anything online, no id retake.

Then calc BC in 10th (not of this AB then BC BS)

After that it depends what your school offers. Some offer advanced calculus (high level than AP calc BC) and beyond. If they don’t, then community college. Community college has math beyond calculus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

Besides TJ, what HSs offer diff eq and discrete?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

My took AP Calc AB as a Senior this year.

He got into Hopkins, another T10 and 3 T20s.

He did have straight As all 4 years and a 35 ACT.

What was the highest math class offered as his HS? And what was his intended major?

Much higher than Calc AB…lol

International relations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

PP is referring to HS classes.

How would you run out of college classes in high school?

One can take: AP Statistics, Multivariable, Linear algebra, differential equations, discrete.

For many (most) districts computer science classes can count as math classes.

They'll run out of *quality* HS classes. Every one of those would be taught much better at the college when they get there. The AP calc teachers are already hit or miss, not many kids have access to good teaching if they get ahead.

Ok so Algebra 1 & 2, Geometry and Precalculus are *quality* high school classes, but community college courses in multivariable, linear algebra and diff eq are not up there with them as far as high school quality is concerned. Suppose OPs student is doing really well right now in 8th grade Precalculus, and is considering enrolling in Calculus in 9th. What’s the advice? From what you’re saying, the should retake precalculus, follow with calculus AB, then BC and finally statistics.

Yes, crazy, but it's easier to find HS teachers who teach HS material well. My guess, OP's kid is not doing really well in 8th grade pre-calc. OP is planning to sign up for pre-calc this summer. In which case, forget about it, take pre-calc 9th, BC, Stats, one CC class the other three years. Regardless, this is not what will get the kid into Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.