Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Princeton, it looks like initial numbers might have been off. 25% of students took something beyond Calculus BC.

So if track is correct, 9th Calc AB, 10 Calc BC, 11 Multivariable at local college, 12 Linear algebra/diff equations at local college

At high school AP Stats 11th or 12th

And the stats also mean 75% did not go beyond calc; plus it doesn't tell you how many students who were beyond Calc got rejected. So, it doesn't seem to be an advantage, just a thing some people do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No.

My took AP Calc AB as a Senior this year.

He got into Hopkins, another T10 and 3 T20s.

He did have straight As all 4 years and a 35 ACT.

What was the highest math class offered as his HS? And what was his intended major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No.

My took AP Calc AB as a Senior this year.

He got into Hopkins, another T10 and 3 T20s.

He did have straight As all 4 years and a 35 ACT.

Which one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.

This correlates to our experience. Mine is studying Engineering at one of the ivies in the top 10 and it is rare to have Calc in 9th. My kid knows 1 in her Engineering advisee group of 30 kids and they are international . She knows 4 more including herself who did AP Calc in 10th in HS, but they were each the only one in their HS to do that, and only because the HS moved them up and had multiple post-BC-calc math levels. They placed out of BC but repeated Multivariable and linear algebra as the college level was much more in depth than high school or local college/dual enrollment . 9th grade Calculus only makes sense if there are advanced courses for the student to do later on, and they still may benefit from repeating the post-BC classes. With BC in 9th they may not remember it enough and need to repeat it which seems counterproductive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Taking two years of math at the community college is not remotely worth the rigamarole. The commuting alone is a huge time suck and will inhibit time spent on ECs. And selective colleges do not regard community college classes nearly as highly as AP classes.

I have two kids at T20s. One finished high school with Calculus BC; the other with Multivariable. It's enough - even for STEM majors.

This makes no sense. If the kid is taking AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC at his high school, and diff and linear equations at the cc, why does it matter that selective colleges don't regard cc colleges as high? There are no AP diff or AP linear algebra classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.

This correlates to our experience. Mine is studying Engineering at one of the ivies in the top 10 and it is rare to have Calc in 9th. My kid knows 1 in her Engineering advisee group of 30 kids and they are international . She knows 4 more including herself who did AP Calc in 10th in HS, but they were each the only one in their HS to do that, and only because the HS moved them up and had multiple post-BC-calc math levels. They placed out of BC but repeated Multivariable and linear algebra as the college level was much more in depth than high school or local college/dual enrollment . 9th grade Calculus only makes sense if there are advanced courses for the student to do later on, and they still may benefit from repeating the post-BC classes. With BC in 9th they may not remember it enough and need to repeat it which seems counterproductive.

Sounds like your advanced kid stood out enough to get into a top Ivy for college. Taking AP Calc in 10th sounds like where it kicks in for most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not expect the math pathway to bump admissions in any way. Lack of math could hurt someone, of course. Having some extra achievement that wouldn't have been possible without the math knowledge could be a boost. But the course sequence by itself will not help.

Your DC will be finishing some difficult courses early, however these are the same courses many, many community college students around the country work their way through. They get As, the transcript doesn't stand out. Your DC gets bragging rights with friends and family, nothing more.

It will help to some degree. Having completed calculus in high school helps with some college admissions in stem majors, but likely the returns are diminishing past that. It matters if the student can finish the workload earlier than the community college students. The high level math allows taking science classes earlier like AP Physics, Chemistry and Biology which again will be beneficial for stem majors.

This may help them in their pursuits, it will not help them in admissions. It might have worked a generation ago, not now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taking two years of math at the community college is not remotely worth the rigamarole. The commuting alone is a huge time suck and will inhibit time spent on ECs. And selective colleges do not regard community college classes nearly as highly as AP classes.

I have two kids at T20s. One finished high school with Calculus BC; the other with Multivariable. It's enough - even for STEM majors.

This makes no sense. If the kid is taking AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC at his high school, and diff and linear equations at the cc, why does it matter that selective colleges don't regard cc colleges as high? There are no AP diff or AP linear algebra classes.

DP. You're right the student would have the credit and pre-req if they complete at a community college. But I agree with the previous poster, college admissions are not looking for this and won't reward it. Also in many cases CC are online and don't require much rigamarole. But that means at best pre-recorded lectures, and all assessments and homework are just online packages the school has purchased. That's fine if the goal is credit, but worthless if looking to develop understanding further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.

I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.

There’s about 80% overlap between Calculus AB and BC. Our school also require AB before BC because lots of kids get accelerated beyond their capabilities and can’t keep up. They do make exceptions for some students to go straight to BC.

AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus if you are fine with a plug and chug approach to solving problems. If you want to understand the foundation at a deeper level some knowledge of calculus will be tremendously helpful. Any probability density function and probability calculation uses calculus, but the class relies heavily on tables and graphing calculators to mask it. Also useful is some better understanding of inverse functions covered in precalculus.

Yeah…why would you take calc AB and BC. It is practically the same exact class with BC going only slightly further in depth toward the end. I’ve been told only take AB if they don’t plan on taking anymore math in HS and aren’t going to pursue STEM? If you plan to continue on, take BC.

[Anonymous]

If you're looking for bonus points, have your kid qualify for the US Math Olympiad team. Those 6 kids always go to a top college. Mastering the high school math curriculum is more impressive than racing through it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.

I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.

There’s about 80% overlap between Calculus AB and BC. Our school also require AB before BC because lots of kids get accelerated beyond their capabilities and can’t keep up. They do make exceptions for some students to go straight to BC.

AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus if you are fine with a plug and chug approach to solving problems. If you want to understand the foundation at a deeper level some knowledge of calculus will be tremendously helpful. Any probability density function and probability calculation uses calculus, but the class relies heavily on tables and graphing calculators to mask it. Also useful is some better understanding of inverse functions covered in precalculus.

Yeah…why would you take calc AB and BC. It is practically the same exact class with BC going only slightly further in depth toward the end. I’ve been told only take AB if they don’t plan on taking anymore math in HS and aren’t going to pursue STEM? If you plan to continue on, take BC.

Different high schools organize these courses differently, with many requiring AB as a prerequisite to BC. And teacher quality varies widely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.

I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.

There’s about 80% overlap between Calculus AB and BC. Our school also require AB before BC because lots of kids get accelerated beyond their capabilities and can’t keep up. They do make exceptions for some students to go straight to BC.

AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus if you are fine with a plug and chug approach to solving problems. If you want to understand the foundation at a deeper level some knowledge of calculus will be tremendously helpful. Any probability density function and probability calculation uses calculus, but the class relies heavily on tables and graphing calculators to mask it. Also useful is some better understanding of inverse functions covered in precalculus.

Yeah…why would you take calc AB and BC. It is practically the same exact class with BC going only slightly further in depth toward the end. I’ve been told only take AB if they don’t plan on taking anymore math in HS and aren’t going to pursue STEM? If you plan to continue on, take BC.

I’m a PP. Why take AB and BC? Because they are going to run out of math in HS and I’m not running around to a community college or George Mason.

I’d rather her transcript shows two solid years of Calculus, with presumably As, then a B+ in Calc BC and no math senior year. And retaking Precalc would show no progression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.

I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.

There’s about 80% overlap between Calculus AB and BC. Our school also require AB before BC because lots of kids get accelerated beyond their capabilities and can’t keep up. They do make exceptions for some students to go straight to BC.

AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus if you are fine with a plug and chug approach to solving problems. If you want to understand the foundation at a deeper level some knowledge of calculus will be tremendously helpful. Any probability density function and probability calculation uses calculus, but the class relies heavily on tables and graphing calculators to mask it. Also useful is some better understanding of inverse functions covered in precalculus.

Yeah…why would you take calc AB and BC. It is practically the same exact class with BC going only slightly further in depth toward the end. I’ve been told only take AB if they don’t plan on taking anymore math in HS and aren’t going to pursue STEM? If you plan to continue on, take BC.

I’m a PP. Why take AB and BC? Because they are going to run out of math in HS and I’m not running around to a community college or George Mason.

I’d rather her transcript shows two solid years of Calculus, with presumably As, then a B+ in Calc BC and no math senior year. And retaking Precalc would show no progression.

You don’t have to run around anywhere. She can dual enroll in a college online class that would likely only hold a virtual class once per week or maybe twice and get a daily study period during HS hours to sit in the library and work on math homework

[Anonymous]

My kid did something similar. AP calc as a frosh. However, he didn't even care about being a stem/math major in college. He went the humanities route to get into a top law school. Interestingly, one major added benefit was the teachers knew when he came in he was bright. His expectations were high from them and his school counselor. When it came time for those rec's I'm pretty sure the math one he got was pretty glowing based on his whole body of work. There are always going to be tiers of students. The top 20%, top 10%, top 1%, top .1%. It's much better to be on the pointy end of the curve in this day and age. I can't believe some of the comments i'm reading that are claiming it migh hurt...right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?

If this is the math path your kid is on - that's the path. What alternative is there? This is a strange question (or just a flex or a troll)