Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe for one second that 1/3 of Princeton's students took AP Calc BC as a Freshman.

+1

yeah, not even close. Only 20% of students nationwide take calculus at all in high school, and only 50% of high schools offer calculus.

OP, your child is going to be judged in the context of their high school. This cockamamie plan won't help them get into a school that is a lottery ticket anyway.

If you want to improve their odds, buy them a sabre or a foil. (KIDDING.) (UNLESS THEY REALLY WANT TO FENCE.)

Even better, buy them a rowing machine!

Yep. My kid was on a very high math pathway (BC Calc in 10th then A+ on UMD math courses) and was WL / Reject at the schools I am sure you are looking at.

[Anonymous]

I think taking some higher level math at CC before doing it in college is a good idea just because sometimes the professors they have teaching those classes at traditional universities are really good researchers/mathematicians but not great teachers, whereas Community College is more teaching focused. The transition from Calc BC to Differential Equations can be rough. I took a class where they'd identified us as potential math majors/minors and despite our 5s, a lot of us struggled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a prof at a top 10 school with a very strong engineering program (not Princeton). I advise engineering students and I can say that of the about 150+ students I have advised in the past 10 years, I have seen maybe 2-3 that have something like that math path. One from TJ (I think the only TJ advisee I have seen) and others were international. My advisees are randomly assigned to faculty so I see all types in my engineering major.

I don't think calc in 9th grade on its own is a huge bonus, as students with advanced math often even retake a more rigorous version in college. Realistically these days most students I see are "interesting" and have broad ideas and community service, and aren't necessarily academic hyperachievers like this, but that's another thread.

I do think it would be important to take math all 4 years in high school in some form and to continue to challenge yourself and of course, excel in what you do take. Your DC should do what they are excited about.

This matches what I’ve seen at our high school in terms of what students are getting accepted. Students who hyper advance are not rewarded.

Except more than 25% of Princeton students take beyond Calc BC, so your premise is wrong. Of course academic superstars are awarded. If you're at TJ taking Calc AB as a 9th grader. you will stand out and be rewarded. Full stop.

I think we don't know what Princeton is counting. Is it that 25% of kids are taking a year of math after they finish Calc BC? That might just mean kids who do AP Statistics their senior year. Or do they mean kids going on to take MV?

Either way, it doesn't really tell us anything for OP, whose kid is still taking poised to take BC two years earlier than the kids who do MV their senior year.

For that kid, I'd recommend some soul-searching about the overall transition to high school, and whether adding a very very difficult class to that transition makes sense for an unknown admissions benefit.

[Anonymous]

I think it closes out a lot of other activities time-wise. My son's HS usually does not offer math above AP BC Calc (occasionally does some years), and taking it at a community college would effectively eliminate his opportunity to be on the school's varsity soccer team (he won't play for a college, but he loves the team and it is somewhat impressive that he made it at a big public school). The timing of the classes and practices just does not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It goes without saying that taking the class at a more traditional year (jr or sr) and getting an A is better than accelerating and not getting an A.

My kid too BC as soph, stats as jr and multi and linear algebra for DE. At top 5 for CS.

If your school doesn’t offer post-AP, I don’t think you get dinged for taking Stats one year (or the order you take it).

I agree with this. I have an 8th grader in precalc and he plans to re-take precalc next yr. While he has doing find, it has been a big challenge and I think it is better to slow down acceleration and really get firm mastery. I dont know what precalc your 8th grader has access to, but I have found ours has been very fast paced and lacking instruction. The adv precalc offered at high school is more in depth, so we are going to do that vs plowing ahead to AP calc as a freshman. This is his projected path if he retakes precalc, which seems plenty rigorous:

9th- adv precalc
10- AP calc BC
11- Advanced calculus
12- complex variables or discrete math

When did they take algebra, geometry, and algebra 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correlation is not causation. There is no evidence that math beyond calc BC provides a bump in admissions. Go ahead and ask an AO.

Yes, students who are advanced should take some math all four years of high school. That doesn't mean it makes sense to rush to calculus.

And no one needs to take calc freshman year. My student did so because he took precalc in 8th (algebra 1 in 5th), but that is radical acceleration and rare. It was pointless for the purpose of college admission.

How were they allowed to take algebra in 5th, when the further level of acceleration allowed by gatehouse is algebra 1 in 6th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe for one second that 1/3 of Princeton's students took AP Calc BC as a Freshman.

+1

yeah, not even close. Only 20% of students nationwide take calculus at all in high school, and only 50% of high schools offer calculus.

OP, your child is going to be judged in the context of their high school. This cockamamie plan won't help them get into a school that is a lottery ticket anyway.

If you want to improve their odds, buy them a sabre or a foil. (KIDDING.) (UNLESS THEY REALLY WANT TO FENCE.)

Even better, buy them a rowing machine!

Yep. My kid was on a very high math pathway (BC Calc in 10th then A+ on UMD math courses) and was WL / Reject at the schools I am sure you are looking at.

An a+ in UMD Math 340?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is truly ready for AP Calc as a 9th grader, then they should not be taking both AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC -- they are way too repetitive. How are they doing in AP Precalculus this year?

I would recommend taking AP Stat in 9th, then AP Calc BC, then Multi/Lin, then a college course like Diff Eq, etc.

If you are pushing them ahead on this path to "make them stand out," then you are making a mistake.

I agree there’s no point in taking AP followed by BC, but I would caution about taking AP Stats before calculus. While college board says it’s an algebra based course essentially everything is underpinned by calculus concepts. While the material might be learned at some superficial level without calculus, I think in the end it’s a disservice to the student to go that route.

Grades and mastery of material is more important than trying to make the student stand out. If the previous classes were honors and they got easy As, next in the sequence should be Calculus BC.

It’s fine to take multivariable, linear algebra, and diff eq in high school and repeat some in college.

My DC’s school requires AB calculus before BC Calculus. This is not uncommon. Also, AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus.

There’s about 80% overlap between Calculus AB and BC. Our school also require AB before BC because lots of kids get accelerated beyond their capabilities and can’t keep up. They do make exceptions for some students to go straight to BC.

AP Statistics does not require knowledge of calculus if you are fine with a plug and chug approach to solving problems. If you want to understand the foundation at a deeper level some knowledge of calculus will be tremendously helpful. Any probability density function and probability calculation uses calculus, but the class relies heavily on tables and graphing calculators to mask it. Also useful is some better understanding of inverse functions covered in precalculus.

[Anonymous]

Taking two years of math at the community college is not remotely worth the rigamarole. The commuting alone is a huge time suck and will inhibit time spent on ECs. And selective colleges do not regard community college classes nearly as highly as AP classes.

I have two kids at T20s. One finished high school with Calculus BC; the other with Multivariable. It's enough - even for STEM majors.

[Anonymous]

Do not expect the math pathway to bump admissions in any way. Lack of math could hurt someone, of course. Having some extra achievement that wouldn't have been possible without the math knowledge could be a boost. But the course sequence by itself will not help.

Your DC will be finishing some difficult courses early, however these are the same courses many, many community college students around the country work their way through. They get As, the transcript doesn't stand out. Your DC gets bragging rights with friends and family, nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe for one second that 1/3 of Princeton's students took AP Calc BC as a Freshman.

+1

yeah, not even close. Only 20% of students nationwide take calculus at all in high school, and only 50% of high schools offer calculus.

OP, your child is going to be judged in the context of their high school. This cockamamie plan won't help them get into a school that is a lottery ticket anyway.

If you want to improve their odds, buy them a sabre or a foil. (KIDDING.) (UNLESS THEY REALLY WANT TO FENCE.)

Even better, buy them a rowing machine!

Yep. My kid was on a very high math pathway (BC Calc in 10th then A+ on UMD math courses) and was WL / Reject at the schools I am sure you are looking at.

An a+ in UMD Math 340?

240 and 241

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not expect the math pathway to bump admissions in any way. Lack of math could hurt someone, of course. Having some extra achievement that wouldn't have been possible without the math knowledge could be a boost. But the course sequence by itself will not help.

Your DC will be finishing some difficult courses early, however these are the same courses many, many community college students around the country work their way through. They get As, the transcript doesn't stand out. Your DC gets bragging rights with friends and family, nothing more.

It will help to some degree. Having completed calculus in high school helps with some college admissions in stem majors, but likely the returns are diminishing past that. It matters if the student can finish the workload earlier than the community college students. The high level math allows taking science classes earlier like AP Physics, Chemistry and Biology which again will be beneficial for stem majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe for one second that 1/3 of Princeton's students took AP Calc BC as a Freshman.

+1

Besides, that means 2/3 of Princeton students did NOT take that ridiculous and totally unnecessary path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?

My current junior took BC in 9th, MV in 10th, Diff Eq/Lin Alg this year, and will be taking Num Th next year plus Stats as an elective - but only because Math is 1) his favorite and easiest subject and 2) all classes are offered within his high school. He’s not accelerating in the hopes of standing out, and I wouldn’t even let him if it meant having to take outside classes. Please let your DC enjoy their high school experience!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correlation is not causation. There is no evidence that math beyond calc BC provides a bump in admissions. Go ahead and ask an AO.

Yes, students who are advanced should take some math all four years of high school. That doesn't mean it makes sense to rush to calculus.

And no one needs to take calc freshman year. My student did so because he took precalc in 8th (algebra 1 in 5th), but that is radical acceleration and rare. It was pointless for the purpose of college admission.

How were they allowed to take algebra in 5th, when the further level of acceleration allowed by gatehouse is algebra 1 in 6th?

I don't know what "gatehouse" is. My kid attended a public charter that is not in the DC area. Different schools do things differently.