Does taking AP Calc freshmen year in HS give enough "bonus" points to make it worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

Sounds like taking Calc AB 9th, then Calc BC 10th would be the way to go, especially if that provides a solid underfooting outside of basic math.

PP here. Yeah, that would be a possibility, but it might seem too repetitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

Sounds like taking Calc AB 9th, then Calc BC 10th would be the way to go, especially if that provides a solid underfooting outside of basic math.

That would be terrible advice. If you took Precalculus honors and got an A you should be well prepared for BC. The Calculus AB overlap with BC is so high that you’d essentially take the same class twice. The only good reason people might take it is if they didn’t do well in precalculus and need to slow down, while still checking the box for rigorous coursework. At that point the better option is to repeat precalculus in 9th and do BC in 10th, so you’d be in the same spot. Otherwise you might bomb AB, and then you’d have to deal with a low GPA. When a kid is that accelerated he should be getting As and 5s on the exam.

Some schools really push AB then BC. Ours does. But BC had the better teacher, and, knowing the extent of overlap, I tol DC to do BC. Right choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

It really depends what the student wants to take besides math, but it makes more sense to take AP statistics before multivariable, which might be useful only if planning to take university level electromagnetism and thermodynamics. I wouldn’t count AP Physics C EM in that category.

Statistics will give exposure to areas that are not typically covered in high school, like counting and probability, essentially the first semester of the class, and it will help with science classes as well. It has its own issues, but in my view the right time to take Statistics is after Calculus BC. Often you hear that Statistics is not rigorous, I strongly disagree with this, it comes from either ignorance or from experiencing poor teaching in high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?

This is ridiculous. Your DC is obviously very smart but this seems unnecessary.
College acceptances are a crap shoot. Your kid could give up their lives to study and not get into any of their dream schools.
My point is only that kids should not make every decision in high school because they worry what colleges will think. Yes he should challenge himself but let him live a normal life.
Colleges won't necessarily think he's better than other applicants who tool AP Calc later on. Find a hook and develop that. Your DC academics are going to be great no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC will be taking AP Calc as 9th grader. They plans on taking AP stats at the high school, then continute to take higher math classes at the CC for 11th and 12th grade. I remember seeing that 1/3 of Princeton students took a similar path.

The upside is hopefully stand out for top colleges.

The downside is taking classes off campus and not in high school enviroment.

Is the net result that a student stands out enough that it worth the detriment?

This is ridiculous. Your DC is obviously very smart but this seems unnecessary.
College acceptances are a crap shoot. Your kid could give up their lives to study and not get into any of their dream schools.
My point is only that kids should not make every decision in high school because they worry what colleges will think. Yes he should challenge himself but let him live a normal life.
Colleges won't necessarily think he's better than other applicants who tool AP Calc later on. Find a hook and develop that. Your DC academics are going to be great no matter what.

Spot on. My kid did took Calc BC in 10th and then advanced math classes because they love math. Some sort of hook for college admissions was never a consideration. And good thing since it certainly was no golden ticket. The kid on the crew team got that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

It really depends what the student wants to take besides math, but it makes more sense to take AP statistics before multivariable, which might be useful only if planning to take university level electromagnetism and thermodynamics. I wouldn’t count AP Physics C EM in that category.

Statistics will give exposure to areas that are not typically covered in high school, like counting and probability, essentially the first semester of the class, and it will help with science classes as well. It has its own issues, but in my view the right time to take Statistics is after Calculus BC. Often you hear that Statistics is not rigorous, I strongly disagree with this, it comes from either ignorance or from experiencing poor teaching in high schools.

It's not poor teaching, poor teaching would be using calculus in an algebra based class. Imagine if the AP Physics 1 teacher started pulling out derivatives and integrals to make it more rigorous to the bewildered 9th and 10th graders. The best thing to do is to take a calculus-based probability and statistics class, which you won't find in highschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

A semester CC class is a year's worth of math, so no need to worry about no math for a semester

[Anonymous]

I have not read any of the prior posts. I come from a family of engineering, physics and math majors. Most went to MIT, Stanford or CalTech for undergrad. Princeton would be considered a downgrade for its limited options and peers in STEM. MIT and CalTech will likely require DC to take Calc BC over at their institution because they have a particular methodology they want the kids to learn even if your kid took Calc and applied math, etc at a well regarded university (as opposed to CC). That said it’s NBD to take classes at CC. Take the 8 am class and then spend the rest of the day at high school. That’s what many in my family did with college level math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

It really depends what the student wants to take besides math, but it makes more sense to take AP statistics before multivariable, which might be useful only if planning to take university level electromagnetism and thermodynamics. I wouldn’t count AP Physics C EM in that category.

Statistics will give exposure to areas that are not typically covered in high school, like counting and probability, essentially the first semester of the class, and it will help with science classes as well. It has its own issues, but in my view the right time to take Statistics is after Calculus BC. Often you hear that Statistics is not rigorous, I strongly disagree with this, it comes from either ignorance or from experiencing poor teaching in high schools.

It's not poor teaching, poor teaching would be using calculus in an algebra based class. Imagine if the AP Physics 1 teacher started pulling out derivatives and integrals to make it more rigorous to the bewildered 9th and 10th graders. The best thing to do is to take a calculus-based probability and statistics class, which you won't find in highschool.

Most community colleges don’t offer calculus based statistics. You’re arguing that if taking calculus early there won’t be enough classes to take, but don’t recommend statistics because it’s not calculus based.
You are actually using calculus in “algebra based” statistics class virtually every time you calculate any probability, but use a calculator to do the operation. If you want to understand the contents better, take statistics after calculus, it doesn’t mean it’s calculus based, it’s just the material makes a lot more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

A semester CC class is a year's worth of math, so no need to worry about no math for a semester

Our school does that, but it may not be true everywhere. At that point it’s probably better to keep taking math classes then to have one semester gaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

Sounds like taking Calc AB 9th, then Calc BC 10th would be the way to go, especially if that provides a solid underfooting outside of basic math.

PP here. Yeah, that would be a possibility, but it might seem too repetitive.

If you’re actually gifted in math (which you should be if you’re that advanced), this doesn’t make any sense at all. A gifted math student does not need to take AB Calc.

[Anonymous]

The answer to the subject question is No.

What you do about being so out of sequence in math is really a question for the head of the math department at your high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

It really depends what the student wants to take besides math, but it makes more sense to take AP statistics before multivariable, which might be useful only if planning to take university level electromagnetism and thermodynamics. I wouldn’t count AP Physics C EM in that category.

Statistics will give exposure to areas that are not typically covered in high school, like counting and probability, essentially the first semester of the class, and it will help with science classes as well. It has its own issues, but in my view the right time to take Statistics is after Calculus BC. Often you hear that Statistics is not rigorous, I strongly disagree with this, it comes from either ignorance or from experiencing poor teaching in high schools.

It's not poor teaching, poor teaching would be using calculus in an algebra based class. Imagine if the AP Physics 1 teacher started pulling out derivatives and integrals to make it more rigorous to the bewildered 9th and 10th graders. The best thing to do is to take a calculus-based probability and statistics class, which you won't find in highschool.

Most community colleges don’t offer calculus based statistics. You’re arguing that if taking calculus early there won’t be enough classes to take, but don’t recommend statistics because it’s not calculus based.
You are actually using calculus in “algebra based” statistics class virtually every time you calculate any probability, but use a calculator to do the operation. If you want to understand the contents better, take statistics after calculus, it doesn’t mean it’s calculus based, it’s just the material makes a lot more sense.

PP here. I wasn't arguing that taking calculus early would lead to there being not enough courses to take.

No one uses calculus in AP statistics any more than the kids in AP Physics 1 memorizing and recalling the kinematics formulas are using calculus. It's just memorize and apply. If the teacher went into the calculus-based derivations, that would be bad teaching as most of the students haven't taken calculus yet (and even the ones who have rarely care about the derivations, and it's not on the AP exam), so virtually all teachers don't do that.

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Anonymous wrote:No. It might actually signal that the parent is driving the bus on math enrichment. No reason a kid should take Calc before 10th. Otherwise, not really enough lower tier college math courses to take to fill out 4 years if math.

lol. You clearly have no clue. Look at some degree major requirements or department policies to get an idea. You can also repeat classes or place directly into more advanced classes.

Actually, I know the curricula very well. You probably didn't understand what I was saying, or just have a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance.

My kid is a math major at a T10 (decided between 2 T10 and some other top schools, so checked curricula with departments at all) and fulfilled all the math base tier requirements in HS. Top colleges may let you use college level work in HS to place out if lower tier or pre req classes, but they won't for upper tier, so if someone took AP Calc in 9th, they may run out of those base classes. It also won't look any more impressive.

And, there is nothing super special about placing out. Some like to retake. Mine went to a magnet HS with incredible math depth and wanted the placement. Was the right choice for her.

Can you give a specific example on how a kid taking Calculus in 9th would run out of classes to take either in high school or in college? The assumption is that they can access introductory level classes at the local community college, and they could also retake some in college if they wish to.

PP here. If multi/diffeq 10th, linear/elective 11th, they could try to add discrete for 12th, but that is a semester. Or possibly logic or complex if school offers, but these wouldn't get much and may not fill the gap. The ones that can help with placement are Calc, multi, diffeq, linear. We did not see any real options to place out of other classes. I suppose those could be used to help with narrative. My kid (BC in 10th) took linear, discrete and complex in 12th. It would have gained her nothing to take BC in 9th, and she might have had a semester without a math or have to scramble to fill at cc.

The OPs student planed to take Calculus in 9th and AP statistics in 10. So Multi and LA in 11th, then Diff Eq and Discrete in 12th.

You don’t run out of classes, no need to take the AB+BC sequence. Another poster mentioned that CCs also have independent study that could substitute for a class.

Sure you coukd do that, but I don't view AP Stats as a math class in the vein of the others. I also don't think it is a good idea to take a year between Calc and multi. My point was that doing Calc in 9th gets you no edge. Stats does not offer an edge or contribute to math reqs (even if you can get credit), and it might feel like a decrease in rigor.

It really depends what the student wants to take besides math, but it makes more sense to take AP statistics before multivariable, which might be useful only if planning to take university level electromagnetism and thermodynamics. I wouldn’t count AP Physics C EM in that category.

Statistics will give exposure to areas that are not typically covered in high school, like counting and probability, essentially the first semester of the class, and it will help with science classes as well. It has its own issues, but in my view the right time to take Statistics is after Calculus BC. Often you hear that Statistics is not rigorous, I strongly disagree with this, it comes from either ignorance or from experiencing poor teaching in high schools.

It's not poor teaching, poor teaching would be using calculus in an algebra based class. Imagine if the AP Physics 1 teacher started pulling out derivatives and integrals to make it more rigorous to the bewildered 9th and 10th graders. The best thing to do is to take a calculus-based probability and statistics class, which you won't find in highschool.

Most community colleges don’t offer calculus based statistics. You’re arguing that if taking calculus early there won’t be enough classes to take, but don’t recommend statistics because it’s not calculus based.
You are actually using calculus in “algebra based” statistics class virtually every time you calculate any probability, but use a calculator to do the operation. If you want to understand the contents better, take statistics after calculus, it doesn’t mean it’s calculus based, it’s just the material makes a lot more sense.

PP here. I wasn't arguing that taking calculus early would lead to there being not enough courses to take.

No one uses calculus in AP statistics any more than the kids in AP Physics 1 memorizing and recalling the kinematics formulas are using calculus. It's just memorize and apply. If the teacher went into the calculus-based derivations, that would be bad teaching as most of the students haven't taken calculus yet (and even the ones who have rarely care about the derivations, and it's not on the AP exam), so virtually all teachers don't do that.

The thread is not about how Statistics is poorly taught in high school. The kid doing Calculus in 9th would absolutely care about how things are derived and understanding fundamentals, they are not just going to memorize and apply. It literally takes a few hours on Wikipedia and YouTube to understand how calculus fits in AP statistics.