Are most men just inherently “selfish”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By that I mean, I feel like I’m constantly thinking of my boyfriend. For example, we share a small apartment and sometimes I need to have it by myself for meetings. Occasionally the reverse happens too, like yesterday. We had made plans to go to dinner after, but as the hours ticked by, I never heard anything from him, not until the coffeee shop had closed and I’d walked around our neighborhood in the dark. When he finally did text me to check in and give me the all clear to go back to the apartment, I was annoyed, because I’m always so communicative with him when he’s out of the apartment, and always thinking about him. This is obviously just the latest thing, it’s not a standalone. I just feel this kind of thing happens all the time- he seems to think mostly of himself whereas I think of “us” and “him” much more. But I don’t know if I’m overreacting and this is a tiny thing, or maybe just what you have to expect from all men, or if I just picked a selfish one. Would love to hear from the DCUM ladies, who have much more experience dealing with men than I do, I think

You have an insecure attachment style and a penchant for creating drama.

Next time, use your words and send a text or call.

NP, but what on earth is an “insecure attachment style”? Did you mean to say avoidant or anxious attachment style?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By that I mean, I feel like I’m constantly thinking of my boyfriend. For example, we share a small apartment and sometimes I need to have it by myself for meetings. Occasionally the reverse happens too, like yesterday. We had made plans to go to dinner after, but as the hours ticked by, I never heard anything from him, not until the coffeee shop had closed and I’d walked around our neighborhood in the dark. When he finally did text me to check in and give me the all clear to go back to the apartment, I was annoyed, because I’m always so communicative with him when he’s out of the apartment, and always thinking about him. This is obviously just the latest thing, it’s not a standalone. I just feel this kind of thing happens all the time- he seems to think mostly of himself whereas I think of “us” and “him” much more. But I don’t know if I’m overreacting and this is a tiny thing, or maybe just what you have to expect from all men, or if I just picked a selfish one. Would love to hear from the DCUM ladies, who have much more experience dealing with men than I do, I think

You have an insecure attachment style and a penchant for creating drama.

Next time, use your words and send a text or call.

NP, but what on earth is an “insecure attachment style”? Did you mean to say avoidant or anxious attachment style?

DP. Anxious and avoidant are subsets/types of insecure attachment. Secure attachment is deemed healthier.

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: As another poster asked, why do you have to leave the apartment if he’s in a meeting? If it’s the apartment, get one that works better, if it’s your behavior, change it, and if he asks you to leave, break up with him. I’m not kidding with all these suggestions.
As for if men are selfish, no, they just need to be told in a way most women don’t, “No, I won’t leave the apartment” or “I really do need you to text when the meeting is done”. Or, you can say “since you didn’t text, I will no longer be leaving the apartment”
You have a lot of options here, op.
As a tangent, this is why I advise women to at least pay for their own place whether it’s rent or just being nice to your mom so you aren’t reliant on a boyfriend. The reason is that you are in girlfriend mode because you aren’t married. A girlfriend gives the boyfriend space to work or study, a wife says “study all you want, this is my home too, and why would I leave, I like it here, I’ve got the stuff I like here, I don’t want to find out what’s open and then maybe spend money or consume food I don’t want, I’m staying right here”.
You don’t need to fight, but nor do you need to frame this as a character flaw on his part. He’s just being a silly man and unless he’s directing you to stay out, he’s probably not a bad guy.
And no, most men wouldn’t understand why walking around after dark is a problem, I remember a similar issue when my husband and I were dating, and he couldn’t grasp the problem, after all nobody had bothered him after dark, and he wouldn’t bother anybody so why on earth would I even worry or think something bad would happen, and if it did, well, all the person would want was money. I remember thinking maybe for the first time “my mom was right, men and women are different” and really grasping what the meant, the world looks very different to us ladies then it does for the men. I’d also argue that it takes men longer to learn how to treat a woman probably because of feminism or at least how it is sometimes practiced. I sure can take care of myself after dark, it doesn’t mean that I’d prefer not to do it when I’ve got a romantic partner in my life, and that looks like them waiting with me if we need to wait, or if they are picking me up, picking me up in areas with lots of people around, ideally other sober women, think lady bar tenders. These are things I don’t think are explained to men the way they used to be. And yes, I’ll take a kind caring slightly sexist man over one that would just expect me to handle it because that’s what his sister does. That’s only my preference and you op can choose differently.

Right. You can’t expect people to read your mind and always be trying to smooth your way. The typical man wouldn’t agree to stay out of his own home indefinitely because his GF may or may not be on a zoom call. There’s no need for a woman to agree to it. A man NEVER would have wandered around for hours meekly wondering when he would be allowed to return. This is an example of the positive side of male self-centeredness that women should emulate.

Was this a zoom meeting?
I assumed this was an in person work/social thing he was hosting in the evening, and he let it go on longer than he said he would.

And yes, men will come back in the middle of something like that, even when they have been asked to be out of the house/apartment. But it’s rude.

[Anonymous]

Yes, they are. I see it mostly at work right now. It's like we are being held hostage because it's men and their behavior or nothing. Nothing is worse, because we'd be so short-handed.
In a relationship it comes out usually later after many months or about a year.
I have had two boyfriends break my phone/laptop when they were caught doing something wrong. I tried to leave both of them at the moment that made them lose it. This is more than selfish ofcourse. Not sure what the word is.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would think he's forgetful and inconsiderate. Were you texting him and he didn't respond?

If you weren't texting him, he probably thought you'd come back after a reasonable amount of time or the normal end of his workday.

If this is a pattern, break up with him.

Well, it’s really on OP if she chose to wander around in the dark instead of thinking “Hmm, guess he forgot to text, I’ll go home.” If he consistently ignores & flakes that’s an issue. But OP also has to be reasonable.

I don’t think that’s fair. She is thinking about what she would do in her boyfriend’s situation, WHICH WE ALL DO, and, in the best possible light, is exactly what he was doing.
She is thinking, “I would communicate and text, and I would be worried that he didn’t have anywhere to go and was upset.”
At BEST, he was thinking, “She would call or just come home if the coffee shop closes and she doesn’t have anywhere to go.”

And I am saying that there is merit in being more assertive and looking after your own interests, and less concerned with what other people are doing/thinking. It doesn’t mean her BF is less caring than she is. Just that he relies on people doing what it reasonable and doesn’t think it’s all on him. Unless he actually flaked out there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with assuming that a person would return to her own home when she needed to …

NP. I agree with the other poster that you’re attempting to mischaracterize the OP’s actions and making them seem “zanier” than they were. If her boyfriend did indeed need a silent apartment for his work event, then it would make perfect sense she wouldn’t want to disturb him while he worked and would wait for his call.

No, it really did not make sense for OP to wait until the coffee shop was closed and she had to wander around. Unless there was some very clear plan like “I will be presenting to the CEO from 4-6” at some point, most people would have assumed the BF forgot to text and have headed home. OP has only herself to blame for being too submissive.

It really did, and since her boyfriend communicated to her that he needed the apartment to be silent (hence the whole reason this happened) it's respectful and kind of her to respect that and not text or call him. You sound like you dont have an awareness of healthy boundaries

No, it’s not “respectful and kind”
to stay out of your own home until past nightfall when the logical assumption is that he *forgot to text.* Boundaries are one thing, being stupidly passive is another thing.

Why would you assume that a Zoom meeting would end simply because it got dark outside? Did you time travel from 1605?

It gets dark around 7:30 pm now. Unless for some reason I knew that the meeting likely went past 6 AND it was actually so sensitive that I literally could not walk in the door, I’d be going home at a normal time. The much more reasonable assumption is that he forgot. You have only yourself to blame if you exaggerately defer to others. You’ll get walked on (and yes, men will be more likely to do it) and you won’t do anyone any good.

Plenty of meetings go on after dark- not sure why you think the Zoom servers magically shut down after sundown. 7:30 also isnt particularly late for certain industries- it's not like sunset happens at 11pm. Depending on how important the meeting was (presumably pretty important given him needing the apartment to himself) it's the respectful thing to not disturb your partner until youre sure it's fine. And it's the respectful thing for the other partner to anticipate that and text as soon as theyre done

Look, there’s being “respectful and kind” and there’s being a doormat. That’s the point. No man would mope around outside until 8pm because he thought *maybe* his GF was still on a zoom call. It’s not actually respectful and kind to be a martyr. You inconvenience yourself and then make everyone pay.

And there’s also just having common sense. If OP didn’t have the common sense to just … go home … and as a result caused herself discomfort and is now mad at her BF, that’s just dumb. You have to be responsible for yourself and be able to figure things out on a practical level. Like if her BF said he would go shopping and get milk but didn’t, then she opened the fridge and saw only expired milk, if she drinks the sour milk because she assumes he just bought it, that’s her own d*mn fault. Use your brain.

It's not being a "doormat" to listen to your partner's needs/specific requests and try to be accommodating. That's called being a good/mature human. There IS something messed up about not responding in kind and letting them know it's time to come back. There was literally nothing crazy about waiting until the text to return back- that's called being a considerate/good human being.

ffs. should she have waited until 10pm? at a certain point it was rational to infer he was probably done. it’s completely dysfunctional not to figure this out.

10pm is very different from waiting until 7:30, which is completely reasonable, particularly if it’s a late meeting . It’s dysfunctional to try to blame OP for what was a considerate and reasonable decision on their part

That’s the point. OP wants to blame someone when she’s the one at fault here for being overly solicitous and slow on the uptake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men are not socialized to think of others the way women are. So I don’t know if they’re inherently more selfish, but the result of this socialization is that yes, they prioritize themselves over others in general.

+1

[Anonymous]

Are most women just inherently “beache$?”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would think he's forgetful and inconsiderate. Were you texting him and he didn't respond?

If you weren't texting him, he probably thought you'd come back after a reasonable amount of time or the normal end of his workday.

If this is a pattern, break up with him.

Well, it’s really on OP if she chose to wander around in the dark instead of thinking “Hmm, guess he forgot to text, I’ll go home.” If he consistently ignores & flakes that’s an issue. But OP also has to be reasonable.

I don’t think that’s fair. She is thinking about what she would do in her boyfriend’s situation, WHICH WE ALL DO, and, in the best possible light, is exactly what he was doing.
She is thinking, “I would communicate and text, and I would be worried that he didn’t have anywhere to go and was upset.”
At BEST, he was thinking, “She would call or just come home if the coffee shop closes and she doesn’t have anywhere to go.”

And I am saying that there is merit in being more assertive and looking after your own interests, and less concerned with what other people are doing/thinking. It doesn’t mean her BF is less caring than she is. Just that he relies on people doing what it reasonable and doesn’t think it’s all on him. Unless he actually flaked out there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with assuming that a person would return to her own home when she needed to …

NP. I agree with the other poster that you’re attempting to mischaracterize the OP’s actions and making them seem “zanier” than they were. If her boyfriend did indeed need a silent apartment for his work event, then it would make perfect sense she wouldn’t want to disturb him while he worked and would wait for his call.

No, it really did not make sense for OP to wait until the coffee shop was closed and she had to wander around. Unless there was some very clear plan like “I will be presenting to the CEO from 4-6” at some point, most people would have assumed the BF forgot to text and have headed home. OP has only herself to blame for being too submissive.

It really did, and since her boyfriend communicated to her that he needed the apartment to be silent (hence the whole reason this happened) it's respectful and kind of her to respect that and not text or call him. You sound like you dont have an awareness of healthy boundaries

No, it’s not “respectful and kind”
to stay out of your own home until past nightfall when the logical assumption is that he *forgot to text.* Boundaries are one thing, being stupidly passive is another thing.

Why would you assume that a Zoom meeting would end simply because it got dark outside? Did you time travel from 1605?

It gets dark around 7:30 pm now. Unless for some reason I knew that the meeting likely went past 6 AND it was actually so sensitive that I literally could not walk in the door, I’d be going home at a normal time. The much more reasonable assumption is that he forgot. You have only yourself to blame if you exaggerately defer to others. You’ll get walked on (and yes, men will be more likely to do it) and you won’t do anyone any good.

Plenty of meetings go on after dark- not sure why you think the Zoom servers magically shut down after sundown. 7:30 also isnt particularly late for certain industries- it's not like sunset happens at 11pm. Depending on how important the meeting was (presumably pretty important given him needing the apartment to himself) it's the respectful thing to not disturb your partner until youre sure it's fine. And it's the respectful thing for the other partner to anticipate that and text as soon as theyre done

Look, there’s being “respectful and kind” and there’s being a doormat. That’s the point. No man would mope around outside until 8pm because he thought *maybe* his GF was still on a zoom call. It’s not actually respectful and kind to be a martyr. You inconvenience yourself and then make everyone pay.

And there’s also just having common sense. If OP didn’t have the common sense to just … go home … and as a result caused herself discomfort and is now mad at her BF, that’s just dumb. You have to be responsible for yourself and be able to figure things out on a practical level. Like if her BF said he would go shopping and get milk but didn’t, then she opened the fridge and saw only expired milk, if she drinks the sour milk because she assumes he just bought it, that’s her own d*mn fault. Use your brain.

It's not being a "doormat" to listen to your partner's needs/specific requests and try to be accommodating. That's called being a good/mature human. There IS something messed up about not responding in kind and letting them know it's time to come back. There was literally nothing crazy about waiting until the text to return back- that's called being a considerate/good human being.

ffs. should she have waited until 10pm? at a certain point it was rational to infer he was probably done. it’s completely dysfunctional not to figure this out.

10pm is very different from waiting until 7:30, which is completely reasonable, particularly if it’s a late meeting . It’s dysfunctional to try to blame OP for what was a considerate and reasonable decision on their part

That’s the point. OP wants to blame someone when she’s the one at fault here for being overly solicitous and slow on the uptake.

That’s actually literally the opposite of the point I was making. do you lack reading comprehension abilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By that I mean, I feel like I’m constantly thinking of my boyfriend. For example, we share a small apartment and sometimes I need to have it by myself for meetings. Occasionally the reverse happens too, like yesterday. We had made plans to go to dinner after, but as the hours ticked by, I never heard anything from him, not until the coffeee shop had closed and I’d walked around our neighborhood in the dark. When he finally did text me to check in and give me the all clear to go back to the apartment, I was annoyed, because I’m always so communicative with him when he’s out of the apartment, and always thinking about him. This is obviously just the latest thing, it’s not a standalone. I just feel this kind of thing happens all the time- he seems to think mostly of himself whereas I think of “us” and “him” much more. But I don’t know if I’m overreacting and this is a tiny thing, or maybe just what you have to expect from all men, or if I just picked a selfish one. Would love to hear from the DCUM ladies, who have much more experience dealing with men than I do, I think

You have an insecure attachment style and a penchant for creating drama.

Next time, use your words and send a text or call.

NP, but what on earth is an “insecure attachment style”? Did you mean to say avoidant or anxious attachment style?

DP. Anxious and avoidant are subsets/types of insecure attachment. Secure attachment is deemed healthier.

Dp. You’re either anxious or avoidant. Pp was using it incorrectly

[Anonymous]

I am a woman and I wouldn't wander around for hours. I would just text or go home. And I probably would also be considered selfish and thoughtless as I would also expect my husband to text or just come home if I was at home and he was out passing time... if he didn't hear from me.

This seems more like a communication issue than a selfishness issue. If one of us really needed the house to ourselves for whatever reason - we would talk about for how long. hey can you give us a couple hours or I have a meeting at 3 that will probably run an hour or two. And neither of us would even give a second thought to texting to see if they are done. And if one of us didn't text and wandered aimlessly and stayed out until dark because they didn't get a text - well that wouldn't happen as we are both competent and independent adults but....the other would give that person a good natured hard time about it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would think he's forgetful and inconsiderate. Were you texting him and he didn't respond?

If you weren't texting him, he probably thought you'd come back after a reasonable amount of time or the normal end of his workday.

If this is a pattern, break up with him.

Well, it’s really on OP if she chose to wander around in the dark instead of thinking “Hmm, guess he forgot to text, I’ll go home.” If he consistently ignores & flakes that’s an issue. But OP also has to be reasonable.

I don’t think that’s fair. She is thinking about what she would do in her boyfriend’s situation, WHICH WE ALL DO, and, in the best possible light, is exactly what he was doing.
She is thinking, “I would communicate and text, and I would be worried that he didn’t have anywhere to go and was upset.”
At BEST, he was thinking, “She would call or just come home if the coffee shop closes and she doesn’t have anywhere to go.”

And I am saying that there is merit in being more assertive and looking after your own interests, and less concerned with what other people are doing/thinking. It doesn’t mean her BF is less caring than she is. Just that he relies on people doing what it reasonable and doesn’t think it’s all on him. Unless he actually flaked out there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with assuming that a person would return to her own home when she needed to …

NP. I agree with the other poster that you’re attempting to mischaracterize the OP’s actions and making them seem “zanier” than they were. If her boyfriend did indeed need a silent apartment for his work event, then it would make perfect sense she wouldn’t want to disturb him while he worked and would wait for his call.

No, it really did not make sense for OP to wait until the coffee shop was closed and she had to wander around. Unless there was some very clear plan like “I will be presenting to the CEO from 4-6” at some point, most people would have assumed the BF forgot to text and have headed home. OP has only herself to blame for being too submissive.

It really did, and since her boyfriend communicated to her that he needed the apartment to be silent (hence the whole reason this happened) it's respectful and kind of her to respect that and not text or call him. You sound like you dont have an awareness of healthy boundaries

No, it’s not “respectful and kind”
to stay out of your own home until past nightfall when the logical assumption is that he *forgot to text.* Boundaries are one thing, being stupidly passive is another thing.

Why would you assume that a Zoom meeting would end simply because it got dark outside? Did you time travel from 1605?

It gets dark around 7:30 pm now. Unless for some reason I knew that the meeting likely went past 6 AND it was actually so sensitive that I literally could not walk in the door, I’d be going home at a normal time. The much more reasonable assumption is that he forgot. You have only yourself to blame if you exaggerately defer to others. You’ll get walked on (and yes, men will be more likely to do it) and you won’t do anyone any good.

Plenty of meetings go on after dark- not sure why you think the Zoom servers magically shut down after sundown. 7:30 also isnt particularly late for certain industries- it's not like sunset happens at 11pm. Depending on how important the meeting was (presumably pretty important given him needing the apartment to himself) it's the respectful thing to not disturb your partner until youre sure it's fine. And it's the respectful thing for the other partner to anticipate that and text as soon as theyre done

Look, there’s being “respectful and kind” and there’s being a doormat. That’s the point. No man would mope around outside until 8pm because he thought *maybe* his GF was still on a zoom call. It’s not actually respectful and kind to be a martyr. You inconvenience yourself and then make everyone pay.

And there’s also just having common sense. If OP didn’t have the common sense to just … go home … and as a result caused herself discomfort and is now mad at her BF, that’s just dumb. You have to be responsible for yourself and be able to figure things out on a practical level. Like if her BF said he would go shopping and get milk but didn’t, then she opened the fridge and saw only expired milk, if she drinks the sour milk because she assumes he just bought it, that’s her own d*mn fault. Use your brain.

It's not being a "doormat" to listen to your partner's needs/specific requests and try to be accommodating. That's called being a good/mature human. There IS something messed up about not responding in kind and letting them know it's time to come back. There was literally nothing crazy about waiting until the text to return back- that's called being a considerate/good human being.

ffs. should she have waited until 10pm? at a certain point it was rational to infer he was probably done. it’s completely dysfunctional not to figure this out.

10pm is very different from waiting until 7:30, which is completely reasonable, particularly if it’s a late meeting . It’s dysfunctional to try to blame OP for what was a considerate and reasonable decision on their part

That’s the point. OP wants to blame someone when she’s the one at fault here for being overly solicitous and slow on the uptake.

That’s actually literally the opposite of the point I was making. do you lack reading comprehension abilities?

I disagree with your point. Your point is “women need to think of others always even when it causes them great discomfort and the other person isn’t thinking of them.” I think that’s absurd and harmful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you need to leave the house. Can't you just be quiet while he's on a meeting? Isn't that enough?

This.

I would have gone home when the coffee shop closed.

Sounds like there is poor communication on both sides, work on that instead of putting labels on right off the bat.

[Anonymous]

I'd suggest you each book a free meeting room at the library to use and stop the pattern of being kicked out of the home.