Montgomery for All Missing Middle presentation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

[Anonymous]

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Where do you find this info out on your specific property or neighborhood?

The county has these records. https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/cct/departments/land-records.html
You can either go in person or register for an online account. You will have to look through the entire chain of property owners to make sure you don't miss anything. So it can take some time to research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

That’s not universally true and in most places where they have de-zoned areas they do have exemptions.

This is just one example…this is why you have to start taking action early.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/was-new-ban-on-single-family-zoning-exempts-some-of-seattles-wealthiest-neighborhoods/

“Exempt from those requirements, however, are homeowner associations and other “common interest communities” that have internal contracts or documents governing their zoning rules. Common interest communities include both sprawling planned developments and smaller subdivisions and condos.

Because homeowner associations and common interest communities have preexisting, legally binding contracts regarding their zoning rules, the Legislature can’t change those, said Rep. Jessica Bateman, D-Olympia, the bill’s lead sponsor.”

We live in Maryland, not Washington.

Yes, we do, but some of us can extrapolate ideas. You should maybe stick to worrying about what time Wapner is on.

This must some weird YIMBY tactic where they pretend that something is a done deal to discourage people from fighting it when there are many ways to fight it, and in fact, the idea doesn’t even have that much support from the electorate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

That’s true, I’m tired of people keeping me from opening a shooting range in my back yard. It’s MY house, after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

That’s true, I’m tired of people keeping me from opening a shooting range in my back yard. It’s MY house, after all.

You're comparing a duplex to a shooting range. Next you'll compare a duplex to a rendering factory or a toxic waste dump.

However, nobody is proposing to change zoning codes to allow more shooting ranges, rendering factories, or toxic waste dumps. The issue is housing types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

That’s not universally true and in most places where they have de-zoned areas they do have exemptions.

This is just one example…this is why you have to start taking action early.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/was-new-ban-on-single-family-zoning-exempts-some-of-seattles-wealthiest-neighborhoods/

“Exempt from those requirements, however, are homeowner associations and other “common interest communities” that have internal contracts or documents governing their zoning rules. Common interest communities include both sprawling planned developments and smaller subdivisions and condos.

Because homeowner associations and common interest communities have preexisting, legally binding contracts regarding their zoning rules, the Legislature can’t change those, said Rep. Jessica Bateman, D-Olympia, the bill’s lead sponsor.”

We live in Maryland, not Washington.

Yes, we do, but some of us can extrapolate ideas. You should maybe stick to worrying about what time Wapner is on.

This must some weird YIMBY tactic where they pretend that something is a done deal to discourage people from fighting it when there are many ways to fight it, and in fact, the idea doesn’t even have that much support from the electorate.

You can fight it all you want. Nobody is stopping you, least of all an anonymous poster on an internet message board.

[Anonymous]

I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

[Anonymous]

This is just one example…this is why you have to start taking action early.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/was-new-ban-on-single-family-zoning-exempts-some-of-seattles-wealthiest-neighborhoods/

“Exempt from those requirements, however, are homeowner associations and other “common interest communities” that have internal contracts or documents governing their zoning rules. Common interest communities include both sprawling planned developments and smaller subdivisions and condos.

Because homeowner associations and common interest communities have preexisting, legally binding contracts regarding their zoning rules, the Legislature can’t change those, said Rep. Jessica Bateman, D-Olympia, the bill’s lead sponsor.”

We live in Maryland, not Washington.

Yes, we do, but some of us can extrapolate ideas. You should maybe stick to worrying about what time Wapner is on.

This must some weird YIMBY tactic where they pretend that something is a done deal to discourage people from fighting it when there are many ways to fight it, and in fact, the idea doesn’t even have that much support from the electorate.

This example from Washington is very relevant. There is established federal case law about overturning preexisting legal contracts for community associations. It is likely that a state law retroactively changing this kind of deed restrictions would be determined unconstitutional by federal courts. The state likely has the legal authority to restrict new contracts, but they are more limited in their authority to retroactively change valid legal agreements established before the state law changed. This means that people in MD can preempt potential zoning changes by establishing legally binding agreements with neighbors now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Yes. If you don't want that to happen, you need to buy the property next door. If it's not your property, you don't make the decisions.

Did you pull the deed and title information for your neighbors property? If you are lucky, you might be able to sue your neighbor for breach of contract for violating a protective covenant. There has already been at least one instance where I'm aware of in Arlington where neighbors found a very old restriction (from 80+ years ago) that forced a developer to cancel their plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

They haven’t so far, at least in Montgomery County. Your track record of results is really poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

[Anonymous]

Argh. It is Chevy Chase Club . Not Chevy Chase Country Club.