The Senate passed a $95.3 billion aid package for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that people still feel that the only way to make US foreign policy is to give out as much money as possible to our "allies."

UGH.

No wonder the US is in debt to our eyeballs.

I get it - I agree that you gotta help your friends. I disagree we need to do anything more to help Israel. First off, they got the money. And if they don't, there's plenty of rich Jews that can privately fund the whole country. Second, I'm not really seeing how they are our "ally" beyond that influential and rich Jews live in the US so politically, we deem them as such. Lastly, for what they are doing to Palestine, not sure why we are funding them for genocide.

On Ukraine - I don't know. When will it be enough? Are we supporting Ukraine? Hell, no. We are just anti Putin/Russia. However, if Putin gets his way with Ukraine, I'm actually unsure how this hurts the US in ways that are unimaginable. I think that Putin truly wants Ukraine because of stupid reasons connected to nationalism v he wants to use it as his first step to achieve world domination. Seriously. I think he has bigger problems and took an unwise gamble to take Ukraine thinking it was going to be easier. But the US is funding this thing like it's our war and it really isn't. We want to beat Putin but it's not really our war.

Lastly, Taiwan. Dear God, the US has to let it go. China, unlike Russia, are not fools and do not gamble like that. China won't do a thing to Taiwan because they have big probs on the mainland. Taiwan is absolutely fine. They are prob the strongest little country in the world! They got the trade doing great, the tech/IT/econ doing well, they got their shit together culturally, politically and domestically. I really think that we need to not take care of them!

There are those who I think think by being able to shell out funds to countries makes us powerful and leverages the perspective that we are good to our friends. The actual truth is domestically, we have more and more probs that we should be throwing more and more money to resolving but we don't because it's too messy. It's easy to shell out money on the foreign policy front - it's really just money and might we are exporting. I think there was a time when that was really important but not much in these cases and the world is changing to a certain extent. There's more than 1-2 heavyweights in the world now and our "power" is not defined the same way as it used to be. The world is changing but the US is not.

We are supporting Ukraine's soverignty. It is far less expensive to do what we are doing, than to let Russia take Ukraine (because then they would take the Baltics, Poland etc etc etc)

We are supporting israel's soverignty, though I would prefer more aid and a restriction on offensive weapons. Defensive, sure.

Taiwan...don't you think China is watching our politcs saying, well if they aren't going to defend Ukraine, then they won't defend taiwan either?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. The Baltics are members of NATO.

In any conventional conflict, NATO would crush Russia in less than two weeks.

Taiwan is a different issue.

We will support Ukraine but not indefinitely. If they can't defeat Russia, they can't defeat Russia.

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

Agree - Ukrainians are not just fighting for their freedom from Russia but for western democracy. Most people see that and that is why there is broad support for aid to Ukraine.

It is scandalous that MAGA Republicans in the House are holding up aid to Ukraine. Praying for their constituents put pressure on them to prioritize national security and the will of the people over Trump’s strong arming to help his re-election bid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that people still feel that the only way to make US foreign policy is to give out as much money as possible to our "allies."

UGH.

No wonder the US is in debt to our eyeballs.

I get it - I agree that you gotta help your friends. I disagree we need to do anything more to help Israel. First off, they got the money. And if they don't, there's plenty of rich Jews that can privately fund the whole country. Second, I'm not really seeing how they are our "ally" beyond that influential and rich Jews live in the US so politically, we deem them as such. Lastly, for what they are doing to Palestine, not sure why we are funding them for genocide.

On Ukraine - I don't know. When will it be enough? Are we supporting Ukraine? Hell, no. We are just anti Putin/Russia. However, if Putin gets his way with Ukraine, I'm actually unsure how this hurts the US in ways that are unimaginable. I think that Putin truly wants Ukraine because of stupid reasons connected to nationalism v he wants to use it as his first step to achieve world domination. Seriously. I think he has bigger problems and took an unwise gamble to take Ukraine thinking it was going to be easier. But the US is funding this thing like it's our war and it really isn't. We want to beat Putin but it's not really our war.

Lastly, Taiwan. Dear God, the US has to let it go. China, unlike Russia, are not fools and do not gamble like that. China won't do a thing to Taiwan because they have big probs on the mainland. Taiwan is absolutely fine. They are prob the strongest little country in the world! They got the trade doing great, the tech/IT/econ doing well, they got their shit together culturally, politically and domestically. I really think that we need to not take care of them!

There are those who I think think by being able to shell out funds to countries makes us powerful and leverages the perspective that we are good to our friends. The actual truth is domestically, we have more and more probs that we should be throwing more and more money to resolving but we don't because it's too messy. It's easy to shell out money on the foreign policy front - it's really just money and might we are exporting. I think there was a time when that was really important but not much in these cases and the world is changing to a certain extent. There's more than 1-2 heavyweights in the world now and our "power" is not defined the same way as it used to be. The world is changing but the US is not.

We are supporting Ukraine's soverignty. It is far less expensive to do what we are doing, than to let Russia take Ukraine (because then they would take the Baltics, Poland etc etc etc)

We are supporting israel's soverignty, though I would prefer more aid and a restriction on offensive weapons. Defensive, sure.

Taiwan...don't you think China is watching our politcs saying, well if they aren't going to defend Ukraine, then they won't defend taiwan either?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. The Baltics are members of NATO.

In any conventional conflict, NATO would crush Russia in less than two weeks.

Taiwan is a different issue.

We will support Ukraine but not indefinitely. If they can't defeat Russia, they can't defeat Russia.

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

The Russian army is lierally forcing 70yo grandpas to join because all the young men are dead or dying.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain in a non partisan way the Republican talking points on why they want to defund the war in Ukraine and not Israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain in a non partisan way the Republican talking points on why they want to defund the war in Ukraine and not Israel?

Welp, on Russia Repub leaders do trumps bidding because he is inexplicably incredibly popular with the rube base. Trump is saying don’t fund Ukraine. So Republicans don’t fund. Republicans are also enamored with Putin’s special brand of Christian authortarian strongman act and sort of wish it could happen stateside. They also see an extra bonus if it were like over there and America could treat the gays how they do in Russia. Basically they are stooges for Russia.

On funding Israel, we’ll again look to the base. Evangelical Christians, who are like 40% of the Republican base, have a hard on for Israel because of biblical reasons like “God shines on Israel” and also because Israel is needed for the Rapture. Also, we have must always supported Israel. Probably because America and England had a huge hand in creating modern day Israel after WW2.

Things are weird now because half of Biden’s base, who are all under like 30, basically now are much more sympathetic to the Palestinians.

Interesting times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain in a non partisan way the Republican talking points on why they want to defund the war in Ukraine and not Israel?

Israel gives kickbacks to both parties, so both parties support it. Ukraine favors Democrats with their kickbacks, so Republicans have less interest in that conflict. There are only so many dollars and weapons to go around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain in a non partisan way the Republican talking points on why they want to defund the war in Ukraine and not Israel?

Why MAGA Loves Russia and Hates Ukraine
Feb. 8, 2024

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/opinion/why-maga-loves-russia-and-hates-ukraine.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb

1. Remember the conspiracy theory that was prevalent at the time of Donald Trump’s first impeachment? Trump asked Zelensky about a “CrowdStrike” server allegedly being held in Ukraine.
This is a reference to a longstanding MAGA claim that it was Ukraine and not Russia that interfered with the 2016 election. There’s no evidence of any kind to support the allegation, and Trump’s own advisers repeatedly debunked it.

MAGA social media Continues to speculate about evil manipulation by CrowdStrike and secret maneuvers by Ukrainians — often inflamed by Mr. Trump’s own statements.”

2. MAGA is incensed that Hunter Biden had a lucrative business relationship with the Ukrainian energy company Burisma. MAGA found itself with the perfect villain to counter the Trump-Russia narrative. Trump wasn’t in bed with a hostile power in Russia; the Democrats were in bed with a hostile power in Ukraine.

3. To MAGA, Putin isn’t just innocent; he’s admirable. Heroic, even, in some ways. He isn’t defined as an authoritarian dictator at the helm of one of America’s chief geopolitical rivals. No, he’s defined as an anti-woke leader who defends Christian civilization by taking on the decadent West. Putin “is not the president of a feminist NGO. He is not a transgender-rights activist. He is not an ombudsman appointed by the United Nations to make and deliver slide shows about green energy.

In 2021, The American Conservative’s Rod Dreher praised a Putin speech condemning the West and said that Putin and Hungary’s Viktor Orban were “completely clear and completely correct on the society-destroying nature of wokeness and postliberal leftism.”

Nonetheless, Dreher has unequivocally condemned Putin’s invasion.


….
So basically, like the Big Lie that Trump won the 2020 election, it is manufactured nonsense to justify Trump’s embrace of the world’s worst war criminal as a good thing

[Anonymous]

We should help Russia, I went there doing the summer it’s nice place

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should help Russia, I went there doing the summer it’s nice place

Why? So that we can eventually become an authoritarian regime with no meaningful democracy or rule of law?

Russia
Freedom House ranking: NOT FREE
19 out of 100 countries
https://freedomhouse.org/country/russia/freedom-world/2022

Freedom Overview
Power in Russia’s authoritarian political system is concentrated in the hands of President Vladimir Putin. With loyalist security forces, a subservient judiciary, a controlled media environment, and a legislature consisting of a ruling party and pliable opposition factions, the Kremlin is able to manipulate elections and suppress genuine dissent. Rampant corruption facilitates shifting links among state officials and organized crime groups.

Key Developments in 2021
* The arrest and detention of leading opposition figure Aleksey Navalny in January resulted in some of the largest protests in a decade. Authorities used excessive force against the demonstrators, and more than 11,500 people were detained.

* The September elections for the Duma, the lower house of parliament, were marked by extensive irregularities, according to election observers and independent media. The official results left the ruling United Russia party with a substantial supermajority.

* Authorities significantly expanded existing legal restrictions on “undesirable” and “extremist” organizations as well as “foreign agents,” contributing to an increase in censorship of the internet and social media and culminating in the forced closure of the respected human rights organization Memorial International.

* Russia continued to experience a severe outbreak of COVID-19, with more than 10 million confirmed cases and 300,000 deaths, according to official statistics; independent experts argued that those figures were artificially low. Low vaccination rates in the country were attributed in part to lack of trust in the government.

[Anonymous]

MAGA bears no resemblance to the Party of Reagan. That's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

LOL on the Russian army is far more formidable. They have emptied their prisons for cannon fodder and their human losses are only eclipsed by the losses in armaments, ships etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain in a non partisan way the Republican talking points on why they want to defund the war in Ukraine and not Israel?

Ukraine - US pullout is good for Russia
Israel - every inch closer to The Rapture is a win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is great that the Senate passed the bill and did the right thing.

But now it goes to the House, where MAGA Republicans who oppose Ukraine funding due to strong arming by Trump have so far managed to keep the measure from being taken up.

Although there is a majority in favor of the bill, House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) last night preemptively rejected the measure, saying that it is nonstarter because it does not address border security.

We know who blocked the compromise bill on immigration reform that was drawn up largely by a conservative politician. So MAGA house members have a paper thin majority, are blocking both bipartisan immigration reform that addresses border security and national security.

Praying they come to their senses and that their constituents put pressure on them to do the will of the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

LOL on the Russian army is far more formidable. They have emptied their prisons for cannon fodder and their human losses are only eclipsed by the losses in armaments, ships etc.

I love how you guys seamlessly switch between "Russia is going to conquer all of Europe if we don't give Ukraine all this money" and "Actually, every Russian is dead and they are out of tanks."

So is Russia formidable or feeble?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

LOL on the Russian army is far more formidable. They have emptied their prisons for cannon fodder and their human losses are only eclipsed by the losses in armaments, ships etc.

I love how you guys seamlessly switch between "Russia is going to conquer all of Europe if we don't give Ukraine all this money" and "Actually, every Russian is dead and they are out of tanks."

So is Russia formidable or feeble?

Depraved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

+ 1M

It's sad that this needs to be said over and over again. The voices here acting like U.S. foreign policy is altruistic are tiresome. Foreign aid is painted as unavoidable, that without it, the alternative would be catastrophic - but it's all a mirage conjured to keep the funds flowing.

In the most favorable light, our foreign policy is just a corrupt continuation of the Confessions of an Economic Hitman era. In the least favorable light, it's a continuation of the not-quite-dormant racism that has been an essential part of our national identity for the past 250 years.