The Senate passed a $95.3 billion aid package for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

LOL on the Russian army is far more formidable. They have emptied their prisons for cannon fodder and their human losses are only eclipsed by the losses in armaments, ships etc.

I love how you guys seamlessly switch between "Russia is going to conquer all of Europe if we don't give Ukraine all this money" and "Actually, every Russian is dead and they are out of tanks."

So is Russia formidable or feeble?

Ukraine is handing their asses to them, but it requires US military aid because the Ukrainians denuded their military as part of the condition for becoming independent in the 1990's. So the answer to your question is both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

+ 1M

It's sad that this needs to be said over and over again. The voices here acting like U.S. foreign policy is altruistic are tiresome. Foreign aid is painted as unavoidable, that without it, the alternative would be catastrophic - but it's all a mirage conjured to keep the funds flowing.

In the most favorable light, our foreign policy is just a corrupt continuation of the Confessions of an Economic Hitman era. In the least favorable light, it's a continuation of the not-quite-dormant racism that has been an essential part of our national identity for the past 250 years.

You have no idea how our lives in the US could change dramatically with a slight shift in global politics and power. But stay in your cocoon and ignore the signs. The money needed particularly for Ukraine is necessary to maintain the world order that has made the US the most powerful economy in the world. That comes with responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

The best way to do that is fund and arm others so our sons and daughters don't have to. THAT is why we should all be supporting these bills.

If you subsidize something you get more of it.

Exactly
We are subsidizing freedom and democracy, so we see more of it.

We are subsidizing military conflict.

Freedom and democracy?! Do you people still believe that's the purpose of all of this? WTF ... wake up already!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

The best way to do that is fund and arm others so our sons and daughters don't have to. THAT is why we should all be supporting these bills.

If you subsidize something you get more of it.

The money is going to US companies, almost all of it. That is good for our economy and the blood of the sons and daughters of other countries are at risk, not the US. So in all, it is money well spent.

That's called wealth redistribution, you rube-adjacent rube.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe that people still feel that the only way to make US foreign policy is to give out as much money as possible to our "allies."

UGH.

No wonder the US is in debt to our eyeballs.

I get it - I agree that you gotta help your friends. I disagree we need to do anything more to help Israel. First off, they got the money. And if they don't, there's plenty of rich Jews that can privately fund the whole country. Second, I'm not really seeing how they are our "ally" beyond that influential and rich Jews live in the US so politically, we deem them as such. Lastly, for what they are doing to Palestine, not sure why we are funding them for genocide.

On Ukraine - I don't know. When will it be enough? Are we supporting Ukraine? Hell, no. We are just anti Putin/Russia. However, if Putin gets his way with Ukraine, I'm actually unsure how this hurts the US in ways that are unimaginable. I think that Putin truly wants Ukraine because of stupid reasons connected to nationalism v he wants to use it as his first step to achieve world domination. Seriously. I think he has bigger problems and took an unwise gamble to take Ukraine thinking it was going to be easier. But the US is funding this thing like it's our war and it really isn't. We want to beat Putin but it's not really our war.

Lastly, Taiwan. Dear God, the US has to let it go. China, unlike Russia, are not fools and do not gamble like that. China won't do a thing to Taiwan because they have big probs on the mainland. Taiwan is absolutely fine. They are prob the strongest little country in the world! They got the trade doing great, the tech/IT/econ doing well, they got their shit together culturally, politically and domestically. I really think that we need to not take care of them!

There are those who I think think by being able to shell out funds to countries makes us powerful and leverages the perspective that we are good to our friends. The actual truth is domestically, we have more and more probs that we should be throwing more and more money to resolving but we don't because it's too messy. It's easy to shell out money on the foreign policy front - it's really just money and might we are exporting. I think there was a time when that was really important but not much in these cases and the world is changing to a certain extent. There's more than 1-2 heavyweights in the world now and our "power" is not defined the same way as it used to be. The world is changing but the US is not.

We are supporting Ukraine's soverignty. It is far less expensive to do what we are doing, than to let Russia take Ukraine (because then they would take the Baltics, Poland etc etc etc)

We are supporting israel's soverignty, though I would prefer more aid and a restriction on offensive weapons. Defensive, sure.

Taiwan...don't you think China is watching our politcs saying, well if they aren't going to defend Ukraine, then they won't defend taiwan either?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. The Baltics are members of NATO.

In any conventional conflict, NATO would crush Russia in less than two weeks.

Taiwan is a different issue.

We will support Ukraine but not indefinitely. If they can't defeat Russia, they can't defeat Russia.

Two years ago NATO might have been able to swat Russia around, but that's not the case any more. NATO committed far more to the Ukrainian conflict than people want to admit, and what is left is a little concerning. The conflict also exposed just how badly decayed the "arsenal of democracy" has become. NATO can not match Russian manufacturing of arms. In fact NATO may not be able to match NK's production.

The Russian army is now far more formidable than it was two years ago, while ours continues to shrink. We seem to lose a copter or plane every day, and the British can't get either of their carriers sea-worthy. A hot war with Russia would be an absolute slog at this point. We would probably need a draft and a war-time economy to win it. It would not be a fun time.

The Russians went to North Korea to beg for ammunition. They're hollowing out a generation of men with their human wave tactics. They ran out of gas on their way to Kyiv, never threatened Odessa, and can't freely sail the Black Sea any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

+ 1M

It's sad that this needs to be said over and over again. The voices here acting like U.S. foreign policy is altruistic are tiresome. Foreign aid is painted as unavoidable, that without it, the alternative would be catastrophic - but it's all a mirage conjured to keep the funds flowing.

In the most favorable light, our foreign policy is just a corrupt continuation of the Confessions of an Economic Hitman era. In the least favorable light, it's a continuation of the not-quite-dormant racism that has been an essential part of our national identity for the past 250 years.

You have no idea how our lives in the US could change dramatically with a slight shift in global politics and power. But stay in your cocoon and ignore the signs. The money needed particularly for Ukraine is necessary to maintain the world order that has made the US the most powerful economy in the world. That comes with responsibilities.

Just say "BOOGEYMAN!" - save your time with the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

+ 1M

It's sad that this needs to be said over and over again. The voices here acting like U.S. foreign policy is altruistic are tiresome. Foreign aid is painted as unavoidable, that without it, the alternative would be catastrophic - but it's all a mirage conjured to keep the funds flowing.

In the most favorable light, our foreign policy is just a corrupt continuation of the Confessions of an Economic Hitman era. In the least favorable light, it's a continuation of the not-quite-dormant racism that has been an essential part of our national identity for the past 250 years.

You have no idea how our lives in the US could change dramatically with a slight shift in global politics and power. But stay in your cocoon and ignore the signs. The money needed particularly for Ukraine is necessary to maintain the world order that has made the US the most powerful economy in the world. That comes with responsibilities.

+ 1

The world order that protects democratic freedoms and rule of law. Trump and Putin are working hard to undermine both.

We have responsibilities to our children and their children.

There are reasons why both Russia and China spend a huge amount of their budgets at online misinformation aimed at destabilizing western democracies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So depressing as we grind toward WW3.

Not defending NATO starts WW3.
Not stopping bullies starts WW3.

Do you think it is acceptable for one country to invade another? For people in one country to just bomb an other? For terrorists to just run wild?

Of course not. Those countries should defend themselves vigorously. Best of luck to them.

My main concern is that the elected leaders of MY country keep my children and my neighbors children away from war zones and people who give a sh*t about their religious claim to land (Israel/Palestine) or their territorial borders from a thousand years or so ago (Russia/Ukraine). Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I have slightly more sympathy to defend Taiwan because we need semiconductors. But only until we can get out act together to be able to manufacture our own.

+ 1M

It's sad that this needs to be said over and over again. The voices here acting like U.S. foreign policy is altruistic are tiresome. Foreign aid is painted as unavoidable, that without it, the alternative would be catastrophic - but it's all a mirage conjured to keep the funds flowing.

In the most favorable light, our foreign policy is just a corrupt continuation of the Confessions of an Economic Hitman era. In the least favorable light, it's a continuation of the not-quite-dormant racism that has been an essential part of our national identity for the past 250 years.

You have no idea how our lives in the US could change dramatically with a slight shift in global politics and power. But stay in your cocoon and ignore the signs. The money needed particularly for Ukraine is necessary to maintain the world order that has made the US the most powerful economy in the world. That comes with responsibilities.

Just say "BOOGEYMAN!" - save your time with the rest.

No need to say boogeyman when Putin will do. Is this what you want our freedom profile to look like?

Russia
NOT FREE
19 out of 100 countries
https://freedomhouse.org/country/russia/freedom-world/2022

Overview
Power in Russia’s authoritarian political system is concentrated in the hands of President Vladimir Putin. With loyalist security forces, a subservient judiciary, a controlled media environment, and a legislature consisting of a ruling party and pliable opposition factions, the Kremlin is able to manipulate elections and suppress genuine dissent. Rampant corruption facilitates shifting links among state officials and organized crime groups.

Key Developments in 2021
* The arrest and detention of leading opposition figure Aleksey Navalny in January resulted in some of the largest protests in a decade. Authorities used excessive force against the demonstrators, and more than 11,500 people were detained.
* The September elections for the Duma, the lower house of parliament, were marked by extensive irregularities, according to election observers and independent media. The official results left the ruling United Russia party with a substantial supermajority.
* Authorities significantly expanded existing legal restrictions on “undesirable” and “extremist” organizations as well as “foreign agents,” contributing to an increase in censorship of the internet and social media and culminating in the forced closure of the respected human rights organization Memorial International.
* Russia continued to experience a severe outbreak of COVID-19, with more than 10 million confirmed cases and 300,000 deaths, according to official statistics; independent experts argued that those figures were artificially low. Low vaccination rates in the country were attributed in part to lack of trust in the government.

[Anonymous]

We should stand with Ukraine. I kind of don't give a rats ass about Israel at this point. (It's tough to support the Israelis and the Palestinians in a way that doesn't also benefit Likud and Hamas). But Rapture-seeking evangelicals and AIPAC have a lot of influence. So, if you want to protect Ukraine, you have to cut a deal on Israel as well.

[Anonymous]

Foreign aid is such a huge racket. Why are Americans so foolish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Foreign aid is such a huge racket. Why are Americans so foolish?

This aid is the last thing Americans are foolish about. Whether or not we give it doesn't change problems not being solved at home (guns, healthcare...)

[Anonymous]

I don’t trust Zelensky. If you ask me, I think he and Putin are in on this together so Putin can get a cut of the US money to Ukraine to fund this “war”.

That’s what I believe. We got fooled by Pakistanis the same way with “counterterrorism” funds . Let’s not get started with Israel.

The whole world knows we are foolish. We just give give give and get nothing in return but Europeans making fun of us when he have to pay for their defense . Trump is right about America first . Our country is in squalor and the migrants and foreign nations are not our first responsibility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should stand with Ukraine. I kind of don't give a rats ass about Israel at this point. (It's tough to support the Israelis and the Palestinians in a way that doesn't also benefit Likud and Hamas). But Rapture-seeking evangelicals and AIPAC have a lot of influence. So, if you want to protect Ukraine, you have to cut a deal on Israel as well.

+1

I care about Ukraine.

As long as Netanyahu and Likud are in control, they want all the war and destruction that follows and we should not be a party to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Foreign aid is such a huge racket. Why are Americans so foolish?

It actually boosts the US economy. So it is a double win.

[Anonymous]

Remember the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter who testified to Congress that Saddam did atrocities and it turned out to be a lie? We just had to help Kuwait with the Iraqi invasion remember ? They’re the same people in the same way Russians and Ukrainians are the same people. Putins grandparents were Ukrainian. That little Kuwaiti girl who lied to Congress is exactly what I think Zelensky is . A liar and a fraud. I can always tell a liar. Zelensky loves Russia and Putin and they are taking our money together. Remember this post 5-10 years from now when it gets exposed and the American government finally figures this out .