Official Government Shutdown 2023 Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I agree with the last line of your rant. But—contractors are paid more than most civil servants for the same work, and have more career flexibility. I hate shutdowns, I think they are absurd, but taking your ire out on civil servants just because they get paid and you don’t, is stupid. You’re welcome to find a federal job, if you want one. Lots of positions opening up!

I'm not taking out my ire on civil servants in general. As I said, my spouse is a civil servant. What I object to is the civil servants who wish for shutdowns because they are guaranteed back pay. It's a very selfish attitude considering a furlough to be a paid staycation. The OP's attitude and language show just how self centered she is.

I mean, you’d feel the same way in their shoes. Just let them have a little joy. Civil servants put up with a lot of crap, for crap pay. I don’t begrudge them a paid vacation when Congress can’t get its shit together. Plus… many many civil servants have to go to work anyway, and won’t get paid until after it’s over. Count your blessings I guess.

I understand the feelings, but it's rude and obnoxious to say the quiet part out loud, especially the way OP did. Just because they put up with a lot of crap does not mean that it is nice to crap on other people in return. I know many ignore them especially with the anonymous nature of DCUM, but manners and empathy still matter.

[Anonymous]

I am really hoping for no shutdown. I have depositions scheduled on the west coast, and it was a nightmare to get them scheduled (opposing counsel is an ass and his client is legitimately busy). I need these to happen and not need to be rescheduled. It is things like this that make me want to leave the Government. It is hard enough to be a trial lawyer without this administrative struggle (with everything, even regular travel arrangements, paralegal support etc.).

[Anonymous]

My guess is that we will have a symbolic shutdown. Because 1 October is a Sunday, they will have a lapse in appropriations. As we are driving in on Monday morning for our four hour orderly shutdown, a continuing resolution will be signed and we’ll wind up staying all day.

[Anonymous]

i really hope no shut down.

will just make a huge, operational mess.


- signed, congressional administrative staffer

[Anonymous]

Op here - did not mean to offend and I’m sorry .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a felony to do unpaid work. It's a felony to accept someone else's unpaid work.

https://www.gao.gov/legal/appropriations-law/resources

No, the criminal penalties of the Antideficiency Act apply to the federal official who obligated the funds in advance of or in excess of the appropriation. By working during the lapse while furloughed, a federal employee is obligating the government for the amout of his or her salary, without an appropriation. And that is consistent with what the linked GAO page says.

Here is an example, also from the GAO website:

Description: CPSC reported that it violated the Antideficiency Act (ADA), 31 U.S.C. § 1342, when it accepted voluntary services when a furloughed employee worked during the partial government shutdown that occurred between December 2018 and January 2019. According to CPSC, an employee assigned to the Division of Chemistry in the Directorate of Laboratory Services was furloughed on December 26, 2018, due to a lapse in appropriations. CPSC reported that its furlough notice, which the employee signed, instructed the employee not to work on official business, even as an unpaid volunteer. While furloughed, the employee accessed his official CPSC e-mail and sent a total of six emails from his official e-mail.

Remedial Action Taken: To prevent a recurrence of this type of violation, CPSC reported that it will continue to emphasize that employees who work while furloughed are subject to the penalties of the ADA. According to CPSC, the responsible employee received a three-day suspension and was required to receive trainings on the ADA and its application to government furloughs. CPSC reported that the responsible employee did not willfully or knowingly violate the ADA.

Source: Unaudited information GAO extracted from agency Antideficiency Act reports; E-mail from Acting Chief Financial Officer, CPSC to Staff Attorney, GAO (Dec. 15, 2021).

Yeah, we never work during a shutdown except when specifically authorized to but I do kind of wonder how it's different from the fact that I worked probably 15-20 extra hours this week and will not be compensated for that in any way. No one has ever complained to me about that.

Fair point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

Very few Feds want a shutdown, and OP is a pretty obvious troll. You hear people "wishing" for a shutdown because talking about the solver lining is more fun than worrying about the hit to the mission, the mess to dig out when we return, or the income of our contractor spouses.

I don't hate contractors as people but I do hate that so much has been outsourced. I'd much rather your job was Federal. The whole concept of using contractors (and then having Feds monitor them) is a mess. Don't be mad at Feds for a system we don't like and didn't create.

When the government makes it easier for someone who is not disabled, not an underserved minority, and not a veteran to get a Federal job, then perhaps my job will be federal. But until then, I'll keep applying and getting rejected for jobs like yours. I refuse to lie about being disabled, I won't do it. So I'll stay a contractor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I agree with the last line of your rant. But—contractors are paid more than most civil servants for the same work, and have more career flexibility. I hate shutdowns, I think they are absurd, but taking your ire out on civil servants just because they get paid and you don’t, is stupid. You’re welcome to find a federal job, if you want one. Lots of positions opening up!

Oh please. Most of us won't cert for those jobs - we're not veterans and we're not disabled. Oh well. And yeah, no, sorry, I'm pissed that you'll get paid for sitting on your ass while I use all my vacation time and not get offered any of those "federal government discounts" that people get during shutdowns. PISSED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

Federal back pay is guaranteed now, by the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-116publ1/pdf/PLAW-116publ1.pdf

CONTRACTOR PAY IS NOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

Federal back pay is guaranteed now, by the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-116publ1/pdf/PLAW-116publ1.pdf

What does it matter what people wish for? That doesn't affect anything.

[Anonymous]

The last shut down was like a vacation…but coming back to work that just piled up. We were understaffed and swamped. I became demoralized and burnt out which is part of the goal I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

Very few Feds want a shutdown, and OP is a pretty obvious troll. You hear people "wishing" for a shutdown because talking about the solver lining is more fun than worrying about the hit to the mission, the mess to dig out when we return, or the income of our contractor spouses.

I don't hate contractors as people but I do hate that so much has been outsourced. I'd much rather your job was Federal. The whole concept of using contractors (and then having Feds monitor them) is a mess. Don't be mad at Feds for a system we don't like and didn't create.

When the government makes it easier for someone who is not disabled, not an underserved minority, and not a veteran to get a Federal job, then perhaps my job will be federal. But until then, I'll keep applying and getting rejected for jobs like yours. I refuse to lie about being disabled, I won't do it. So I'll stay a contractor.

there is no veterans preference for direct hire positions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - did not mean to offend and I’m sorry .

I'm the contractor PP who said that your comments were rude and selfish (I'm not the PP who said "F you, OP"). Apology accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

Very few Feds want a shutdown, and OP is a pretty obvious troll. You hear people "wishing" for a shutdown because talking about the solver lining is more fun than worrying about the hit to the mission, the mess to dig out when we return, or the income of our contractor spouses.

I don't hate contractors as people but I do hate that so much has been outsourced. I'd much rather your job was Federal. The whole concept of using contractors (and then having Feds monitor them) is a mess. Don't be mad at Feds for a system we don't like and didn't create.

100% this. Both the farce we've created with the current system of paying contractors for work we often could do better and faster in house and the general point that many of us know this would create unnecessary and extraordinarily waste of time and lost important outputs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - did not mean to offend and I’m sorry .

I'm the contractor PP who said that your comments were rude and selfish (I'm not the PP who said "F you, OP"). Apology accepted.

Thank you for this. Learning from this and moving on. Thank you