Official Government Shutdown 2023 Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I am exempted, so I might have to cancel my October vacation and work instead for delayed pay.

that stinks, I’m sorry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

NP and a law was passed in the last few years that guarantees backpay for feds. GEFTA is the abbreviation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

NP and a law was passed in the last few years that guarantees backpay for feds. GEFTA is the abbreviation.

I’ve seen that and our appropriations attorneys have said they would still have to provide back pay in the next appropriations bill so it really doesn’t do anything.

[Anonymous]

I see a 100% chance for a government shutdown because the Freedom Caucus wants to show that they can cause a shutdown. However, I think it will be a short shutdown, i.e., days not weeks, as the Freedom Caucus will be given something that they can use as a fig leaf and declare victory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

Lots of us aren’t rooting for a shutdown. I feel bad for contractors but my biggest concern is our impoverished beneficiaries who would get delayed assistance, most of them don’t know where their next meal comes from so us waiting weeks to pay them what we’ve said we would is a pretty big hardship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

Very few Feds want a shutdown, and OP is a pretty obvious troll. You hear people "wishing" for a shutdown because talking about the solver lining is more fun than worrying about the hit to the mission, the mess to dig out when we return, or the income of our contractor spouses.

I don't hate contractors as people but I do hate that so much has been outsourced. I'd much rather your job was Federal. The whole concept of using contractors (and then having Feds monitor them) is a mess. Don't be mad at Feds for a system we don't like and didn't create.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a felony to do unpaid work. It's a felony to accept someone else's unpaid work.

https://www.gao.gov/legal/appropriations-law/resources

No, the criminal penalties of the Antideficiency Act apply to the federal official who obligated the funds in advance of or in excess of the appropriation. By working during the lapse while furloughed, a federal employee is obligating the government for the amout of his or her salary, without an appropriation. And that is consistent with what the linked GAO page says.

Here is an example, also from the GAO website:

Description: CPSC reported that it violated the Antideficiency Act (ADA), 31 U.S.C. § 1342, when it accepted voluntary services when a furloughed employee worked during the partial government shutdown that occurred between December 2018 and January 2019. According to CPSC, an employee assigned to the Division of Chemistry in the Directorate of Laboratory Services was furloughed on December 26, 2018, due to a lapse in appropriations. CPSC reported that its furlough notice, which the employee signed, instructed the employee not to work on official business, even as an unpaid volunteer. While furloughed, the employee accessed his official CPSC e-mail and sent a total of six emails from his official e-mail.

Remedial Action Taken: To prevent a recurrence of this type of violation, CPSC reported that it will continue to emphasize that employees who work while furloughed are subject to the penalties of the ADA. According to CPSC, the responsible employee received a three-day suspension and was required to receive trainings on the ADA and its application to government furloughs. CPSC reported that the responsible employee did not willfully or knowingly violate the ADA.

Source: Unaudited information GAO extracted from agency Antideficiency Act reports; E-mail from Acting Chief Financial Officer, CPSC to Staff Attorney, GAO (Dec. 15, 2021).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I agree with the last line of your rant. But—contractors are paid more than most civil servants for the same work, and have more career flexibility. I hate shutdowns, I think they are absurd, but taking your ire out on civil servants just because they get paid and you don’t, is stupid. You’re welcome to find a federal job, if you want one. Lots of positions opening up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I HATE government employees. There are a LOT of people that contract for the government that won't get paid. You are so selfish wishing for a shutdown when the people who actually DO YOUR JOB for you won't get paid.

You hate us cuz you ain’t us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

Google is your friend. Here is just one source that I could find in under 30 seconds.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/438242-the-federal-government-is-the-largest-employer-in-the-nation/#:~:text=The%20figure%20includes%20nearly%202.1,than%20500%2C000%20postal%20service%20employees.

The federal government employs nearly 9.1 million workers, comprising nearly 6 percent of total employment in the United States. The figure includes nearly 2.1 million federal employees, 4.1 million contract employees, 1.2 million grant employees, 1.3 million active duty military personnel, and more than 500,000 postal service employees.

So it's a lower percentage because I was only including the 6.2M combined civil service and contractors. I did not include the additional 2.9M of grant, military and postal service employees. However, contractors do make up about 65-75% of the non-military and non-postal employees of the federal government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I agree with the last line of your rant. But—contractors are paid more than most civil servants for the same work, and have more career flexibility. I hate shutdowns, I think they are absurd, but taking your ire out on civil servants just because they get paid and you don’t, is stupid. You’re welcome to find a federal job, if you want one. Lots of positions opening up!

I'm not taking out my ire on civil servants in general. As I said, my spouse is a civil servant. What I object to is the civil servants who wish for shutdowns because they are guaranteed back pay. It's a very selfish attitude considering a furlough to be a paid staycation. The OP's attitude and language show just how self centered she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

Federal back pay is guaranteed now, by the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-116publ1/pdf/PLAW-116publ1.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not a felony to do unpaid work. It's a felony to accept someone else's unpaid work.

https://www.gao.gov/legal/appropriations-law/resources

No, the criminal penalties of the Antideficiency Act apply to the federal official who obligated the funds in advance of or in excess of the appropriation. By working during the lapse while furloughed, a federal employee is obligating the government for the amout of his or her salary, without an appropriation. And that is consistent with what the linked GAO page says.

Here is an example, also from the GAO website:

Description: CPSC reported that it violated the Antideficiency Act (ADA), 31 U.S.C. § 1342, when it accepted voluntary services when a furloughed employee worked during the partial government shutdown that occurred between December 2018 and January 2019. According to CPSC, an employee assigned to the Division of Chemistry in the Directorate of Laboratory Services was furloughed on December 26, 2018, due to a lapse in appropriations. CPSC reported that its furlough notice, which the employee signed, instructed the employee not to work on official business, even as an unpaid volunteer. While furloughed, the employee accessed his official CPSC e-mail and sent a total of six emails from his official e-mail.

Remedial Action Taken: To prevent a recurrence of this type of violation, CPSC reported that it will continue to emphasize that employees who work while furloughed are subject to the penalties of the ADA. According to CPSC, the responsible employee received a three-day suspension and was required to receive trainings on the ADA and its application to government furloughs. CPSC reported that the responsible employee did not willfully or knowingly violate the ADA.

Source: Unaudited information GAO extracted from agency Antideficiency Act reports; E-mail from Acting Chief Financial Officer, CPSC to Staff Attorney, GAO (Dec. 15, 2021).

Yeah, we never work during a shutdown except when specifically authorized to but I do kind of wonder how it's different from the fact that I worked probably 15-20 extra hours this week and will not be compensated for that in any way. No one has ever complained to me about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I agree with the last line of your rant. But—contractors are paid more than most civil servants for the same work, and have more career flexibility. I hate shutdowns, I think they are absurd, but taking your ire out on civil servants just because they get paid and you don’t, is stupid. You’re welcome to find a federal job, if you want one. Lots of positions opening up!

I'm not taking out my ire on civil servants in general. As I said, my spouse is a civil servant. What I object to is the civil servants who wish for shutdowns because they are guaranteed back pay. It's a very selfish attitude considering a furlough to be a paid staycation. The OP's attitude and language show just how self centered she is.

I mean, you’d feel the same way in their shoes. Just let them have a little joy. Civil servants put up with a lot of crap, for crap pay. I don’t begrudge them a paid vacation when Congress can’t get its shit together. Plus… many many civil servants have to go to work anyway, and won’t get paid until after it’s over. Count your blessings I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we think the odds are of a shutdown?

My goal would be to have a staycation - gym, relax, TV, and unwind. What about you?

How nice for you. You realize that the federal workforce is only about 25-35% civil service. There are about 65-75% of the federal workforce that are contractors. While the civil service gets backpay virtually always, the federal contract workforce only gets paid when they work. In many cases, work stops at the shutdown and they are officially furloughed until work resumes. And they don't get back pay.

We are lucky in my household that we have one civil servant and one contractor. So even though I make more income as the contractor, my spouse is guaranteed back pay. But I know plenty of dual federal contractor families who lose all household income during a shutdown.

F the conservative wing who don't care about the federal workforce.

I've never heard a count of federal contractors that was that high, where do you get your numbers? Federal back pay is not guaranteed, but it's always happened in the past so it is likely. I thought most contractors paid their employees for a while too, but I guess they have different choices in the private sector.

I forgot to address the other part of your comment. While we, as federal contractors, get paid more in salary, we do not get paid more in total compensation compared to the civil service. Federal civil servants get much more in benefits than contractors do. Civil servants can get up to 6 weeks of paid leave with separate sick leave. Most contractors cap off at 5 weeks of combined PTO. Federal civil servants typically get more holidays than contractors do. Also the retirement benefits are much better. Even though you pay annuitites into FERS, if you retire, you get a lot more back from FERS than you put in. Plus you can have TSP on top of FERS. TSP is the equivalent of what contractors get in their 401Ks. Federal civil service can transfer between jobs in the civil service and retain their full seniority. For most contractors, once their current contract is up, if they have to switch employers due to where the contract work is, their benefits zero out. I have been in federal contracting for over 30 years and have watched my benefits go up and down like a roller coaster, whereas my spouse's benefits have continued to accrue for the same period and they retain their full seniority.

If you consider total compensation, my spouse makes significantly more than I do, even though I make more in salary. And we've been in federal service for about the same length of time.