Advice needed: Sister-in-law’s touring dozens of no-name colleges with student-athlete daughter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know why everyone it excoriating you, OP. You care about your niece and are worried. I understand that.

There are two separate questions you can ask your SIL. Innocently, so she doesn't feel you're interfering.

1. College debt can be crushing, and completely derail wealth building in adulthood. I understand you're looking for significant aid from these private colleges?

2. Larla wants to be a nurse. It's so nice she can have a built-in social group thanks to her sport, but I assume all these colleges you're looking at also have a reputable nursing program?

And then you'll have said your piece and must bow out. There are many imponderables, many possible outcomes, so you can't really pitch a fit now - your niece might turn out quite happy and successful, but all they will remember is that you were unhappy with their choices. You need to be very diplomatic here.

People are excoriating OP because she is stupid, which is probably one of DCUMs greatest sins.

[Anonymous]

MYOB. And your elitism smells bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You actually don’t need any advice. Not your kid, not your finances. Stay out of it.

It’s our family. And my husband and I have degrees from four universities and far more resources and even we wouldn’t do something so financially reckless. It feels like they are being swindled and are too caught up in making sure she plays a sport in college. I don’t want to see this wreck their finances, their marriage, put my niece in a mountain of debt, and make it so my niece ends up transferring colleges because she only went to the obscure private for a sport.

Since you’re so close to this family talk to your niece at your regular get together!

It’s challenging to talk to a niece or the parents when the parents’ egos seem so caught up in making sure she plays in college, any college. They’re being totally irrational. I think it’s a terrible decision to go to an obscure private college in the middle of nowhere when she could likely get into UVA. UVA will have the most recourses, the best departments, and best students. And again they have no money. Please don’t lie to me that some obscure d3 college is going to let her go there for free. Ain’t happening.

1) You have no idea if she is likely to get into UVA, especially if you have not recently been involved in college admissions.
2) Yes, UVA can be a great deal if you have a high level of 'need" as determined by FAFSA. If it's just that they are middle class and haven't saved for college, they out-of-pocket for UVA is likely to be quite high. And, yes, D3 schools may be less. Not zero but my DD's LAC (that I'm sure you'd find unacceptable) costs us $28k after merit aid only

She has a great shot at getting into UVA. Not even she will apply because the parents are foolishly obsessed with playing the sport in college. And the only colleges she can play at are obscure no-name colleges which basically let everyone play as long as you write checks or take out loans to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Say nothing OP. Small no name colleges sometimes give scholarships for athletes.

If your niece wants to, she can quit the sport, lose the money, and get one year of basic classes out of the way before she transfers. Or, the school works out for her. Neither are your problem.

You’re spreading misinformation. There are no athletic scholarships at tiny private colleges.

There are plenty of D2 and NAIA small schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my niece can continue to play her sport in college. The issue is two-fold. Her daughter is simply good not great at her sport (which her parents refuse to accept) and the family is only middle class. They have no college savings, so debt will fuel this. Is it sports obsessed parents’ egos that refuse to let it go? They can’t admit ten years of sports efforts simply conclude in 12th grade?

Is there any way to convince them they’re about to make a terrible financial decision? The family is going to end up with a lot of debt, their daughter will likely quit the sport once she can do what she wants, and likely, the daughter hates the no-name private college where she knows nobody. Isn’t that how this usually plays out?

If you are so knowledgeable about this sport and about her ability level, then you should know that many kids play for D3 schools through great financial packages. And have great experiences at those schools. I know a few myself. Clearly, you have no idea what you are speaking of. Don't embarrass yourself by bringing up this nonsense to your SIL.

Why are you using the strange phrasing “great financial packages”? You know there are no sports scholarships at d3. And you know there is no free lunch. They dupe these student-athlete parents into attending with fake scholarship discounts and end up costing gullible middle class families a boatload of money and loans. And most kids quit the sport. And often the kids transfer out. It’s setting a middle class kid up for disaster to go to some random school solely to continue a sport. There are far more resources for such a student at a selective state university.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Several of DD’s friends went to D3 schools to play their sport. They received academic merit money or needs based assistance and their out of pocket expenses were significantly less than their state university costs would have been. Every one of them played their sport all 4 years, loved their school, and either got good jobs after undergrad or went directly to grad school. It’s not for everyone. But for plenty of kids it’s a great path. Hardly a disaster.

All of your daughters’ student-athlete friends shared their intimate family net worth and household income with you and you helped them fill out FAFSA and saw their “scholarship” letters? I find that hard to believe. And also, travel sports people lie to make the obscure school sound too hard to pass up. The reality is people are paying and taking out loans so their good not great athlete kid can keep playing a sport. It’s a disaster for middle class parents to get caught up in that.

I’m not the PP but I volunteer to help kids whose parents don’t have any experience with college applications get through the process. So, I see the scholarship letters and I help with the FAFSA and application. These are middle class and lower middle class kids for the most part. I’ve seen this across a wide range of kids.

The bottom line is that the D3 athlete kids often get enormous packages of merit aid, particularly if they have good grades. It’s usually competitive with in-state and often better. Many kids pick lower-ranked small colleges because it is the best financial option.

And there is another intangible: for families new to the college system, the kids feel really wanted by the school. They aren’t just numbers, they aren’t just a cog. Professors reach out after they are accepted. They get personal tours by the admissions office. They get assistance figuring out the dorms. It can be a very rewarding process for families that don’t have system experience.

Are you OP? Because you sound more truly ignorant with every single post. It is genuinely shocking how little you know.

I am the OP. If she can get into UVA, she will be showered with means-based financial aid and attend a world class public university, where she can study whatever she wants. But the family is obsessed with obscure no-name private colleges solely so she can play a sport there. It has nothing to do with how charming the school is. These are colleges she’d never entertain if sports weren’t involved. It is reckless and indulgent, especially when you don’t have money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You actually don’t need any advice. Not your kid, not your finances. Stay out of it.

It’s our family. And my husband and I have degrees from four universities and far more resources and even we wouldn’t do something so financially reckless. It feels like they are being swindled and are too caught up in making sure she plays a sport in college. I don’t want to see this wreck their finances, their marriage, put my niece in a mountain of debt, and make it so my niece ends up transferring colleges because she only went to the obscure private for a sport.

Since you’re so close to this family talk to your niece at your regular get together!

It’s challenging to talk to a niece or the parents when the parents’ egos seem so caught up in making sure she plays in college, any college. They’re being totally irrational. I think it’s a terrible decision to go to an obscure private college in the middle of nowhere when she could likely get into UVA. UVA will have the most recourses, the best departments, and best students. And again they have no money. Please don’t lie to me that some obscure d3 college is going to let her go there for free. Ain’t happening.

1) You have no idea if she is likely to get into UVA, especially if you have not recently been involved in college admissions.
2) Yes, UVA can be a great deal if you have a high level of 'need" as determined by FAFSA. If it's just that they are middle class and haven't saved for college, they out-of-pocket for UVA is likely to be quite high. And, yes, D3 schools may be less. Not zero but my DD's LAC (that I'm sure you'd find unacceptable) costs us $28k after merit aid only

She has a great shot at getting into UVA. Not even she will apply because the parents are foolishly obsessed with playing the sport in college. And the only colleges she can play at are obscure no-name colleges which basically let everyone play as long as you write checks or take out loans to go there.

Tell us the small obscure D3 school that doesn’t give merit for UVA-qualified kids. Name one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my niece can continue to play her sport in college. The issue is two-fold. Her daughter is simply good not great at her sport (which her parents refuse to accept) and the family is only middle class. They have no college savings, so debt will fuel this. Is it sports obsessed parents’ egos that refuse to let it go? They can’t admit ten years of sports efforts simply conclude in 12th grade?

Is there any way to convince them they’re about to make a terrible financial decision? The family is going to end up with a lot of debt, their daughter will likely quit the sport once she can do what she wants, and likely, the daughter hates the no-name private college where she knows nobody. Isn’t that how this usually plays out?

If you are so knowledgeable about this sport and about her ability level, then you should know that many kids play for D3 schools through great financial packages. And have great experiences at those schools. I know a few myself. Clearly, you have no idea what you are speaking of. Don't embarrass yourself by bringing up this nonsense to your SIL.

Why are you using the strange phrasing “great financial packages”? You know there are no sports scholarships at d3. And you know there is no free lunch. They dupe these student-athlete parents into attending with fake scholarship discounts and end up costing gullible middle class families a boatload of money and loans. And most kids quit the sport. And often the kids transfer out. It’s setting a middle class kid up for disaster to go to some random school solely to continue a sport. There are far more resources for such a student at a selective state university.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Several of DD’s friends went to D3 schools to play their sport. They received academic merit money or needs based assistance and their out of pocket expenses were significantly less than their state university costs would have been. Every one of them played their sport all 4 years, loved their school, and either got good jobs after undergrad or went directly to grad school. It’s not for everyone. But for plenty of kids it’s a great path. Hardly a disaster.

All of your daughters’ student-athlete friends shared their intimate family net worth and household income with you and you helped them fill out FAFSA and saw their “scholarship” letters? I find that hard to believe. And also, travel sports people lie to make the obscure school sound too hard to pass up. The reality is people are paying and taking out loans so their good not great athlete kid can keep playing a sport. It’s a disaster for middle class parents to get caught up in that.

I’m not the PP but I volunteer to help kids whose parents don’t have any experience with college applications get through the process. So, I see the scholarship letters and I help with the FAFSA and application. These are middle class and lower middle class kids for the most part. I’ve seen this across a wide range of kids.

The bottom line is that the D3 athlete kids often get enormous packages of merit aid, particularly if they have good grades. It’s usually competitive with in-state and often better. Many kids pick lower-ranked small colleges because it is the best financial option.

And there is another intangible: for families new to the college system, the kids feel really wanted by the school. They aren’t just numbers, they aren’t just a cog. Professors reach out after they are accepted. They get personal tours by the admissions office. They get assistance figuring out the dorms. It can be a very rewarding process for families that don’t have system experience.

Are you OP? Because you sound more truly ignorant with every single post. It is genuinely shocking how little you know.

I am the OP. If she can get into UVA, she will be showered with means-based financial aid and attend a world class public university, where she can study whatever she wants. But the family is obsessed with obscure no-name private colleges solely so she can play a sport there. It has nothing to do with how charming the school is. These are colleges she’d never entertain if sports weren’t involved. It is reckless and indulgent, especially when you don’t have money.

Are her parents obsessed with the sport or does she also want to play her sport? It’s truly none of your business but if she is such a stellar student, then she’s likely to be a standout at these alleged no name low ranked schools and will get significant merit money. So no need for you to worry yourself over their finances.

[Anonymous]

I agree that a recruited athlete can get into a good D3 school with merit aid. She should reach out to coaches at some of the better academic D3s too. Bigger D3 schools like MIT and CMU are just ok at most sports but help athletes quite a bit admissions wise.

[Anonymous]

Why do you feel the need to post here about this? You aren't helping in any way.

[Anonymous]

I’m not going to detail the sport and the list of colleges they are visiting because that will dox me and my family, as they’ve shared the tours on Facebook and it’s a tight-knit sport. Two, I’m not going to disparage specific colleges and get into a back and forth about how wonderful they are. When the reality is they’re literally dying. And choosing some obscure no-name college solely so you can sooth your parents’ egos and they can brag you’re playing in college is a foolish recipe for disaster, especially to a non-wealthy family who will require loans for this indulgent effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my niece can continue to play her sport in college. The issue is two-fold. Her daughter is simply good not great at her sport (which her parents refuse to accept) and the family is only middle class. They have no college savings, so debt will fuel this. Is it sports obsessed parents’ egos that refuse to let it go? They can’t admit ten years of sports efforts simply conclude in 12th grade?

Is there any way to convince them they’re about to make a terrible financial decision? The family is going to end up with a lot of debt, their daughter will likely quit the sport once she can do what she wants, and likely, the daughter hates the no-name private college where she knows nobody. Isn’t that how this usually plays out?

If you are so knowledgeable about this sport and about her ability level, then you should know that many kids play for D3 schools through great financial packages. And have great experiences at those schools. I know a few myself. Clearly, you have no idea what you are speaking of. Don't embarrass yourself by bringing up this nonsense to your SIL.

Why are you using the strange phrasing “great financial packages”? You know there are no sports scholarships at d3. And you know there is no free lunch. They dupe these student-athlete parents into attending with fake scholarship discounts and end up costing gullible middle class families a boatload of money and loans. And most kids quit the sport. And often the kids transfer out. It’s setting a middle class kid up for disaster to go to some random school solely to continue a sport. There are far more resources for such a student at a selective state university.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Several of DD’s friends went to D3 schools to play their sport. They received academic merit money or needs based assistance and their out of pocket expenses were significantly less than their state university costs would have been. Every one of them played their sport all 4 years, loved their school, and either got good jobs after undergrad or went directly to grad school. It’s not for everyone. But for plenty of kids it’s a great path. Hardly a disaster.

All of your daughters’ student-athlete friends shared their intimate family net worth and household income with you and you helped them fill out FAFSA and saw their “scholarship” letters? I find that hard to believe. And also, travel sports people lie to make the obscure school sound too hard to pass up. The reality is people are paying and taking out loans so their good not great athlete kid can keep playing a sport. It’s a disaster for middle class parents to get caught up in that.

I’m not the PP but I volunteer to help kids whose parents don’t have any experience with college applications get through the process. So, I see the scholarship letters and I help with the FAFSA and application. These are middle class and lower middle class kids for the most part. I’ve seen this across a wide range of kids.

The bottom line is that the D3 athlete kids often get enormous packages of merit aid, particularly if they have good grades. It’s usually competitive with in-state and often better. Many kids pick lower-ranked small colleges because it is the best financial option.

And there is another intangible: for families new to the college system, the kids feel really wanted by the school. They aren’t just numbers, they aren’t just a cog. Professors reach out after they are accepted. They get personal tours by the admissions office. They get assistance figuring out the dorms. It can be a very rewarding process for families that don’t have system experience.

Are you OP? Because you sound more truly ignorant with every single post. It is genuinely shocking how little you know.

I am the OP. If she can get into UVA, she will be showered with means-based financial aid and attend a world class public university, where she can study whatever she wants. But the family is obsessed with obscure no-name private colleges solely so she can play a sport there. It has nothing to do with how charming the school is. These are colleges she’d never entertain if sports weren’t involved. It is reckless and indulgent, especially when you don’t have money.

PP. Okay. Name the no-name private college where she will not get substantial merit aid better than what UVA is offering. Give me specific names.

UVA “showers” almost nobody with aid. Not means-based, not otherwise.

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. I hope you and your profound ignorance stay far, far away from your niece. You are going to cause her massive problems because of your stupidity and ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to detail the sport and the list of colleges they are visiting because that will dox me and my family, as they’ve shared the tours on Facebook and it’s a tight-knit sport. Two, I’m not going to disparage specific colleges and get into a back and forth about how wonderful they are. When the reality is they’re literally dying. And choosing some obscure no-name college solely so you can sooth your parents’ egos and they can brag you’re playing in college is a foolish recipe for disaster, especially to a non-wealthy family who will require loans for this indulgent effort.

Actually she sounds like a strong merit aid case and you sound like an a-hole who just wants to dump on the parents’ “ego.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You actually don’t need any advice. Not your kid, not your finances. Stay out of it.

It’s our family. And my husband and I have degrees from four universities and far more resources and even we wouldn’t do something so financially reckless. It feels like they are being swindled and are too caught up in making sure she plays a sport in college. I don’t want to see this wreck their finances, their marriage, put my niece in a mountain of debt, and make it so my niece ends up transferring colleges because she only went to the obscure private for a sport.

And somehow you don't realize MOST kids don't know anyone when they arrive at college? Sounds fake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Say nothing OP. Small no name colleges sometimes give scholarships for athletes.

If your niece wants to, she can quit the sport, lose the money, and get one year of basic classes out of the way before she transfers. Or, the school works out for her. Neither are your problem.

You’re spreading misinformation. There are no athletic scholarships at tiny private colleges.

DP and you’re half right. They offer scholarships to students who are also athletes but not athletic scholarships.

Again, why the continued weasel wording? Is this how you con gullible parents? D3 can not offer student-athletes more scholarships than non-athlete students. Period. Anyone suggesting otherwise is trying to con you.

[Anonymous]

If you *know* niece will carry significant debt, then step in. College apps haven't even started yet. Why don't you wait to see what happens, but I would suggest applying to a couple dirt cheap safety schools. Because college debt is awful.