How to answer sons who are asking me why so many girls have 'girls are better' merch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it used to be that girls were often to,d they couldn’t do things and that these shirts are someone’s idea of correcting that. You could also tell them that you’re not wild about the shirts because they also create the message the boys are getting, so you won’t buy the shirts, but it’s important to recognize when points being made about history are legitimate, even if they are misguided.

This. DS was in a STEM camp last week. Five of the thirty kids were girls. Five. I pointed that out to him and asked him about the make up of his Advanced Math group at school, 1/3 of the class is female. He thought about it and asked me why there were so few girls. My response was similar to the above answer, that for a long time people thought that women should be home caring for kids and not in the work force. This led to people thinking that women were not good at specific subjects. He said that wasn’t true, I agreed and said that it takes time to correct past inequities.

I can’t say I like the shirts and stuff but I get the idea behind them. We don’t change how society sees stereotypes over night, it takes time, focus, and energy. And there is push back against that change because many programs have limited space for every girl who takes a space in a program means a boy doesn’t. It doesn’t matter to some that giving the space to the girl is helping to address a societal bias, even when the candidates are equally qualified, but is seeing as damaging the boy.

Ok but go to any arts camp and it will be 5 boys and 25 girls. And look at the yearbook committee, student government, band … probably dominated by girls. It’s really not enough to point out disparities to demonstrate bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The shirts probably say “girls rule” or “girl power” or “run like a girl”, etc. Your boys are likely being overly sensitive. I doubt a girl has a shirt that says “girls are better than boys”.

If you Google “girls are better than boys shirt” and hit the shopping tab, the second shirt to come up says exactly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

[Anonymous]

I don’t know , OP, but my son complained that his elementary school has a “girls on the run” club but no running club for boys that he could join. And he wants to join!

He also asked me why the gym has a big “girls rule” sign in it and no boys rule sign. The sign is actually from the the girls
On the run club so it goes hand in hand with his other complaint I guess. I also had a hard time with these questions and actually encouraged him to ask to join the girls on the run club because he was absolutely correct. But, he was nervous to so he didn’t. For reference he is a rising 2nd grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

I have never seen a lock up your daughters shirt….

[Anonymous]

OK you need to explain to them the history of messaging on girls clothing. If you read this article, although it’s dated, it has a lot of good examples. For example, the same brand sold a boys shirt with a superhero and the girls version that said, future superheroes wife. A boy shirt that would say genius and a girl shirt that would say I’m too pretty for algebra. The girl empowerment is the correct some of those messaging which is sexist at best.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dangerous-lessons-from-sexist-shirts_n_6102096/amp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

I have never seen a lock up your daughters shirt….

Parental Warning Lock Up Your Daughters Bad Cute Boy T-Shirt https://a.co/d/9kBzftz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK you need to explain to them the history of messaging on girls clothing. If you read this article, although it’s dated, it has a lot of good examples. For example, the same brand sold a boys shirt with a superhero and the girls version that said, future superheroes wife. A boy shirt that would say genius and a girl shirt that would say I’m too pretty for algebra. The girl empowerment is the correct some of those messaging which is sexist at best.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dangerous-lessons-from-sexist-shirts_n_6102096/amp

That’s the point though- it’s dated. Yes, those shirts are appalling. But OPs kids weren’t even born yet when those shirts were on the shelves. So OP can’t say “well it’s to counteract all the shirts that say girls are bad math” because those shirts are not around anymore. But “girls rule boys drool” type shirts are ubiquitous

[Anonymous]

Stuff like this makes me worry about unintended co sequences. the medical literature is full of interventions that were well intentioned but not only didn’t work but had the opposite of the intended effect. There have also been some recent studies about dei initiatives having I’ll effects. To be clear-I am a feminist and very much anti-racist! I am also a scientist who thinks it’s important to understand what ACTUALLU works and that large scale interventions should be evaluated and course corrections should be made if they are backfiring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know , OP, but my son complained that his elementary school has a “girls on the run” club but no running club for boys that he could join. And he wants to join!

He also asked me why the gym has a big “girls rule” sign in it and no boys rule sign. The sign is actually from the the girls
On the run club so it goes hand in hand with his other complaint I guess. I also had a hard time with these questions and actually encouraged him to ask to join the girls on the run club because he was absolutely correct. But, he was nervous to so he didn’t. For reference he is a rising 2nd grader.

As a woman, you should be able to have these conversations with your sons openly. Historically girls were not encouraged to participate in sports, and in fact, they weren’t allowed to. Title IV! These clubs are around to encourage girls to do things that historically they were not allowed to do. Easy answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

I have never seen a lock up your daughters shirt….

Parental Warning Lock Up Your Daughters Bad Cute Boy T-Shirt https://a.co/d/9kBzftz

I’ve seen that like once one a baby onesie. The “girls rule” stuff is much more common and for older kids. Also the message of “lock up your daughters” is gross and sexualizing but not really the same as “boys rule.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

I have never seen a lock up your daughters shirt….

Parental Warning Lock Up Your Daughters Bad Cute Boy T-Shirt https://a.co/d/9kBzftz

Ok, fair. I guess I meant, on the shelves of retailers. I can find a shirt on Amazon that says basically anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

It’s really no different than the macho wording on little boy shirts. Do they ask about that too? “Stud”, “beast”, “ Parental Advisory: Lock Up Your Daughters.”

Ugh, I hate those shirts. (I also dislike “girl power” shirts and frankly also the fact that clothing for little kids is gendered at all. Sell it all under “size 4T” or whatever, don’t make me click through “little kid girls” and “little kid boys” to find the nicest dinosaur shirts.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know , OP, but my son complained that his elementary school has a “girls on the run” club but no running club for boys that he could join. And he wants to join!

He also asked me why the gym has a big “girls rule” sign in it and no boys rule sign. The sign is actually from the the girls
On the run club so it goes hand in hand with his other complaint I guess. I also had a hard time with these questions and actually encouraged him to ask to join the girls on the run club because he was absolutely correct. But, he was nervous to so he didn’t. For reference he is a rising 2nd grader.

As a woman, you should be able to have these conversations with your sons openly. Historically girls were not encouraged to participate in sports, and in fact, they weren’t allowed to. Title IV! These clubs are around to encourage girls to do things that historically they were not allowed to do. Easy answer.

But it’s not an easy answer or even a good one. Because it still leaves the boy with no running club, based on his gender! This kind of “oh well, accept discrimination based on race/gender now because of history” is not a good way to actually raise white boys to have the values you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know , OP, but my son complained that his elementary school has a “girls on the run” club but no running club for boys that he could join. And he wants to join!

He also asked me why the gym has a big “girls rule” sign in it and no boys rule sign. The sign is actually from the the girls
On the run club so it goes hand in hand with his other complaint I guess. I also had a hard time with these questions and actually encouraged him to ask to join the girls on the run club because he was absolutely correct. But, he was nervous to so he didn’t. For reference he is a rising 2nd grader.

As a woman, you should be able to have these conversations with your sons openly. Historically girls were not encouraged to participate in sports, and in fact, they weren’t allowed to. Title IV! These clubs are around to encourage girls to do things that historically they were not allowed to do. Easy answer.

That’s what I tried to do and his response was “so now boys aren’t allowed to, because when grandma was little, girls weren’t allowed to?” I mean he is 7. A sports club that exists only for one gender - without a club for the other gender- at a public school wasn’t ok then and it’s not ok now.