How to answer sons who are asking me why so many girls have 'girls are better' merch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next time you see worlds best dad shirt on someone who is not their dad, point out that the shirt was not actual award to the person and then compare to other shirts whether they say girls rule or I’m with stupid.

op - LOL, love this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

Another example (if you choose to go this route) is pointing out the gender ratio in eg superhero movies. How many of the avengers are girls? How many shirts do they have with (male) characters on them that they wear because feeling like that character makes them feel awesome? That’s why girls want to be told they’re awesome too.

JFC

Don’t tell your kid any of this are you women insane?

Just say “it’s a T-shirt and it’s meaningless and stop being a big baby”.

Honestly, this. Your kids need to grow a thicker skin, OP.

op - oye - they're not crying about it, they just have questions. I think that's pretty normal, especially for a 7 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your example about presidents is great; maybe add the 80 cents on the dollar salary figure. I'd tell your boys that these shirts are fighting against negative messaging that girls constantly get. They are not saying boys are bad, they are emphasizing that girls are strong and worthwhile which unfortunately not everybody believes yet. And because our society tends to elevate boys over girls, an equivalent shirt saying "boy power" would be inappropriate.

Op - ok yes this is helpful!
I guess on some level I’ve been reluctant to say ‘society elevates boys over girls’ bc I don’t even want to put the idea in their head. But obv I guess I have to acknowledge out loud at some point.

My DS would absolutely reject the assertion that “society elevated girls.” He would need more specific facts. Because that’s not what boys see/experience these days.

Nobody in a majority group thinks they are benefiting from it. That's why it's a parent's job to talk about this, with specific facts.

And talk about how these stereotypes hurt boys too. Eg, would they get teased if they wore a girl power shirt? Why? If they wore pink? Cried? Is that right or fair? Is it OK for boys to hit each other but not girls: if so, why is it OK to hit anybody / why should boys tolerate getting hit?

except there’s good evidence that boys are not in the majority group these days - particularly black boys.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/boys-left-behind-education-gender-gaps-across-the-us/

I do talk about gender stereotypes more broadly, as well as media representation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think explain that unfortunately in this country and in many, women and girls are denied basic rights, and because of this we pay extra care to uplift girls and their self-esteems, because the system is that boys rule the system, and you can have a sexual predator, narcissistic, no experience man elected over a competent women because the system is rigged to keep boys ruling.

you are saying biden is a sexual predator now?
aside from a million other questions, including whether you're sure your tinfoil hat is fitting ok right now, where would he even have the time or the energy?
the crazy in this country is getting seriously out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

I should rephrase that. Boys don’t need that encouragement framed in gender-specific terms. Except maybe in terms of redefining roles they play in domestic situations. Professionally and academic, the drive for boys to achieve is already endemic. There’s no need for equivalent messaging/sloganing the way it exists for girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it used to be that girls were often to,d they couldn’t do things and that these shirts are someone’s idea of correcting that. You could also tell them that you’re not wild about the shirts because they also create the message the boys are getting, so you won’t buy the shirts, but it’s important to recognize when points being made about history are legitimate, even if they are misguided.

This. DS was in a STEM camp last week. Five of the thirty kids were girls. Five. I pointed that out to him and asked him about the make up of his Advanced Math group at school, 1/3 of the class is female. He thought about it and asked me why there were so few girls. My response was similar to the above answer, that for a long time people thought that women should be home caring for kids and not in the work force. This led to people thinking that women were not good at specific subjects. He said that wasn’t true, I agreed and said that it takes time to correct past inequities.

I can’t say I like the shirts and stuff but I get the idea behind them. We don’t change how society sees stereotypes over night, it takes time, focus, and energy. And there is push back against that change because many programs have limited space for every girl who takes a space in a program means a boy doesn’t. It doesn’t matter to some that giving the space to the girl is helping to address a societal bias, even when the candidates are equally qualified, but is seeing as damaging the boy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I get it. My DS asked me the same thing. I don't think the boys feel *hurt* by it, so all the people insulting OP and her kids can take a hike. But to the kids who were raised that boys and girls are equal, it seems strange to then see lots of "Girl Power" and "Girls Rock" merchandise.

I think the PPs who say to address it historically and intellectually have the right idea. Yes, on one hand you don't want to indtroduce this idea to the boys

op - THIS
they are not being raised this way at all so it's so confusing to them and I feel almost seeds the idea in boys (and girls) that they didn't have to begin with. That being said, it's also bs to pretend the gender pay gap, the lack of women leadership in business and politics, is not a thing - and important to squash these issues once and for all. other posters have had really good advice here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

Yes of course they do. Boys live today, not 50 years ago.

I should rephrase that. Boys don’t need that encouragement framed in gender-specific terms. Except maybe in terms of redefining roles they play in domestic situations. Professionally and academic, the drive for boys to achieve is already endemic. There’s no need for equivalent messaging/sloganing the way it exists for girls.

It is not. You've got this wrong. If you are a curious person, you can easily find this information and it shows that boys do not succeed and achieve the way that girls do. It starts young and gets worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

I mean yes, this is what I have to teach my son as a sort of media/cultural literacy: these messages that to you appear to disparage boys and especially white boys are not actually about you. But can’t you see the difficulty and hypocrisy there? We claim girls need the messaging to counteract other messaging. Yet boys (white and black in different ways)are somehow supposed to cope with negative messaging.

[Anonymous]

You tell them not to pay attention to that crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 sons (7 and 10) have been asking me about this a lot. At school and camp a lot of girls have shirts that say various versions of like 'girls are better than boys' (i'm not sure exact wording bc the kids are telling me this second hand, but am vaguely aware through culture ofc). My kids ask 'why would they say this?' Thus far my tactic has been to explain that as yet we have had NO female president in US (I am from the UK so can talk about how we have had female leaders at home) and talk about what kind of message that sends to girls. But my kids are not dumb and their answer is - yes 100% we need a female president but that messaging is still like - girls are BETTER than boys. Any tips on how to talk about this to them? I am failing.

It sounds like your boys are internalizing female empowerment messages. No shirts say things like “girls are better.” They do have positive messages or are sardonic rejections of old stereotypes (a popular shirt in the softball world is something like “you wish you could throw like a girl.”

So maybe tell your sons to stop internalizing things so much — it isn’t about them. Girls have historically been denied opportunities and suffered from lower expectations for roles in society. And so we rightfully encourage them to achieve. Boys don’t really need that same encouragement because they have not been bombarded with messaging throughout history like a boy’s place is in the kitchen, a boy shouldn’t get a formal education, etc etc.

right but the girls rule, boys drool type messaging ISN'T just a positive message about girls. That's what they're asking about.
also you pretty much never see 'boys rock' merch so that's confusing for boys overall too right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it used to be that girls were often to,d they couldn’t do things and that these shirts are someone’s idea of correcting that. You could also tell them that you’re not wild about the shirts because they also create the message the boys are getting, so you won’t buy the shirts, but it’s important to recognize when points being made about history are legitimate, even if they are misguided.

This. DS was in a STEM camp last week. Five of the thirty kids were girls. Five. I pointed that out to him and asked him about the make up of his Advanced Math group at school, 1/3 of the class is female. He thought about it and asked me why there were so few girls. My response was similar to the above answer, that for a long time people thought that women should be home caring for kids and not in the work force. This led to people thinking that women were not good at specific subjects. He said that wasn’t true, I agreed and said that it takes time to correct past inequities.

I can’t say I like the shirts and stuff but I get the idea behind them. We don’t change how society sees stereotypes over night, it takes time, focus, and energy. And there is push back against that change because many programs have limited space for every girl who takes a space in a program means a boy doesn’t. It doesn’t matter to some that giving the space to the girl is helping to address a societal bias, even when the candidates are equally qualified, but is seeing as damaging the boy.

As a professional woman in STEM, I can tell you it's not because teachers or parents are not supportive, they r and are!, it's because girls don't want to. And increasingly boys don't want to either.

You're really coming at this from the wrong angle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The shirts probably say “girls rule” or “girl power” or “run like a girl”, etc. Your boys are likely being overly sensitive. I doubt a girl has a shirt that says “girls are better than boys”.

op - i think you're probably right that it's some version of 'girls rule'.
but my 7 year old is definitely getting this msg and he is not generally oversensitive at all (if anything the opposite!). So I do need some language to frame it around.

Ds would point out those things at that age and eventually learned the word "sexist" and called everything that would limit one sex, sexist. I get annoyed that he pays it any mind because I am all for others tooting their own horn. I don't get why he sees it as an attack. I usually tell him his concerns are baseless or I'm dismissive since it seems silly to care about. Maybe I should talk it out with him more but with age, he is moving on to pointing out many gender norms as sexist if it leaves the other sex ostracized for doing the same things. To me these social issue discussions are exhausting and I feel "over it" at my age but it is obviously good for them, in the grand scheme, to talk this out.

It’s a good age for them to wrestle with cognitive dissonance and learn how not to internalize messages like this.

There are grown-ass adults who never did that and now are all out stamping their feet in school board meetings because they imagine CRT is being taught and they are tired of all this race talk all of a sudden. I mean, hell, some of them even sit on the highest court in the land.

OP - i work in advertising so i think telling them not to internalize any messages ever would be a weird flex.
messages are made to be internalized. and questioned. I am proud that they are curious enough to ask me and start a conversation. The problem you describe is with people who dont actually want to start a conversation, they want to end one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it used to be that girls were often to,d they couldn’t do things and that these shirts are someone’s idea of correcting that. You could also tell them that you’re not wild about the shirts because they also create the message the boys are getting, so you won’t buy the shirts, but it’s important to recognize when points being made about history are legitimate, even if they are misguided.

This is good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The shirts probably say “girls rule” or “girl power” or “run like a girl”, etc. Your boys are likely being overly sensitive. I doubt a girl has a shirt that says “girls are better than boys”.

op - i think you're probably right that it's some version of 'girls rule'.
but my 7 year old is definitely getting this msg and he is not generally oversensitive at all (if anything the opposite!). So I do need some language to frame it around.

Ds would point out those things at that age and eventually learned the word "sexist" and called everything that would limit one sex, sexist. I get annoyed that he pays it any mind because I am all for others tooting their own horn. I don't get why he sees it as an attack. I usually tell him his concerns are baseless or I'm dismissive since it seems silly to care about. Maybe I should talk it out with him more but with age, he is moving on to pointing out many gender norms as sexist if it leaves the other sex ostracized for doing the same things. To me these social issue discussions are exhausting and I feel "over it" at my age but it is obviously good for them, in the grand scheme, to talk this out.

It’s a good age for them to wrestle with cognitive dissonance and learn how not to internalize messages like this.

There are grown-ass adults who never did that and now are all out stamping their feet in school board meetings because they imagine CRT is being taught and they are tired of all this race talk all of a sudden. I mean, hell, some of them even sit on the highest court in the land.

That is really expecting a LOT from a child. The fact that you believe messaging matters so much to girls indicates you believe that it’s necessary to counteract negative internalized notions. Yet boys are supposed to somehow do this on their own? That’s just not a realistic way to raise children. I believe that by failing to acknowledge boys’ understandable feelings about this - treating them like taboos - we are much more likely to drive them towards red-pill propaganda. Because they WILL find those red-pill influencers, and will feel like “hey, he’s saying all this stuff I thought but wasn’t allowed to say!”

It’s really pretty basic psychology to acknowledge and validahe boys feelings about this stuff, the difficulty of it, and avoid creating a black & white scenario where they cannot discuss it.