How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense

[Anonymous]

It’s not all or nothing. Do the kitchen or whatever the worst thing is. Incremental improvements make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Going at it from a financial sense isn't going to return what you think. Labor and materials are drastically more expensive now.

I would get a few quotes from contractors on your project because I suspect it being north $250k. Than talk to your lender and see what a HELOC is going for at today's rates.

Run the numbers to see if its something you and DH are comfortable with. But you need to do some initial legwork besides whining about the finishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

Are they falling apart or do you just not like them? Fix the stuff that is falling apart.

My 1980s cabinets in the kitchen and bathrooms are warping. The tile floors are a mess. Several windows won’t stay open anymore.

I wonder how many other posters have builder-grade 1980s fixtures? If you don’t know, you don’t know.

I am the pp who recommended painting, restoring the floors and the handyman. I do so I know and this is how you pay for everything you already do without having financial stress with your spouse.

[Anonymous]

My guess is that when OP realizes how expensive it is to do the reno she wants, all of a sudden she'll be able to live with the "falling apart", "such a mess" and "can you believe my table was bought in 2000"...

[Anonymous]

Then just replace what is falling apart. Cabinets are falling apart? Replace the cabinets and the countertop or vanities. You don't have to redo the whole room.

Sure, that would be nice, but you have two college tuitions left to fund. And if you live in a desirable area, it doesn't matter how crappy your house is in the DC metro.

And, yes, I live in a non desirable DC metro area with bathroom cabinets falling apart. I slapped some chalk paint on mine and the at least look decent now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know your college tuition situation. That’s the big one.

Renovations that you pay a contractor to do are not going to be a good investment, ever. They may be justified, for sure. It sounds like they are. But you are wrong if you think they’ll be a good financial investment.

Pay for them in cash as you go. Don’t borrow more money with all this tuition on the horizon.

Alternatively, since your youngest is almost out of the nest, just sell this place and move somewhere that’s turnkey in a couple years. Let a flipper, or someone who will will really need your old neighborhood and schools, take the financial hit changing the 1980s kitchen.

We have 7 years before the youngest goes to college, so we can’t move. We love the neighborhood. New construction in our area is well north of $1M. All the resales aren’t turnkey. They are other people’s renovations from a decade or so ago precisely because people renovate so they can enjoy it.

We will get good money for our home when we sell down the road because we have the largest model with bells and whistles that other homes don’t have. Plus our lot and Street are highly desirable.

Sigh. I guess I’ll continue to live in squalor.

Sounding a bit dramatic OP.
Regardless, I am guessing that with your husband is focused on the fact that you are already dealing with a college tuition and have TWO more to go. It does not sound like you have those tuitions fully funded or do you? If not, your husband is being way more financially responsible and I give him credit for putting your kids first. Giving your kids the incredible gift of no or little college debt vs. an updated house is a no brainer - invest in your kids.

This. If you're going to be dramatic and say it's "squalor", you won't win your DH over. Men can be *very* sensitive about money/provider type stuff, even in this day and age.


I know it sounds silly but you need to present the ideas to him in a different way. Don't say "DH, our house is a disaster and we are SO BROKE and we LIVE IN SQUAAAAALOR and it's EMBARRASSING and GROSS and it's YOUR FAULT for not letting me spend all the money I want to on a huge renovation project and all-new everything!!!!!".

Do it like this: "DH, I'd like to have the gutter repaired. It's becoming detatched and I'm concerned water will rot our trim. I'll get a few quotes, okay?" So then you do that project. Then you move on to the next. "DH, I'm going to sand and re-paint our shutters. The gutter guy took them down for me when he was here with the ladder. I'm going to Home Depot for some paint, text me if you need anything, see you later!"

Do this. I think the long list is overwhelming and sounds like a slippery slope. He probably feels like if he agrees to any of it he has to do all of it. Do it one step at a time. Take the most pressing issue first. Convince him that you’re maintaining the value of your investment. Which happens to be true. My first husband was like that — our house would have fallen down around our ears if left to his devices. It wasn’t because he was cheap, I just think he never learned about the importance of preventative maintenance. Once the house starts looking better, he’ll probably feel better about doing more. If you can, just don’t tell him what it all costs. My DH is like that. He loves the result, but he enjoys it more if he doesn’t have to know the final price tag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

I've been following and this is what has been bothering me about OP's attitude. She comes across as she feels she is entitled to home renovations and new furniture just because things are old and/or falling apart. That is just not how it works. I honestly wish it did but that is not how life is. You either can afford things or you do without. This is such a basic tenet of life yet OP does not seem to understand. Her husband does not seem to think they can afford all she wants done. Because she comes across as, frankly, immature and entitled I find myself finding her husband's stance way more credible.

[Anonymous]

I'm always surprised by how these conversations go. Any expressed desire to live in an aesthetically pleasing, functional home environment is met with cost-benefit calculations and the inevitable reality that "there will not be a return on the investment." So one lives the prime of their life with sub-optimal kitchens and substandard HVAC and not enough space for the family, while you sock away money for when you're 70, and for what? I am not advocating spendthrift ignoring of future needs, but I am questioning the rigid dismissal of actually enjoying NOW. I've seen plenty of people squirrel away the funds while living in falling apart, outdated, substandard housing, and then drop dead before they "downsize" and "recoup their investment." Not interested. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

I've been following and this is what has been bothering me about OP's attitude. She comes across as she feels she is entitled to home renovations and new furniture just because things are old and/or falling apart. That is just not how it works. I honestly wish it did but that is not how life is. You either can afford things or you do without. This is such a basic tenet of life yet OP does not seem to understand. Her husband does not seem to think they can afford all she wants done. Because she comes across as, frankly, immature and entitled I find myself finding her husband's stance way more credible.

Whatever.

The reality is of course we can afford to renovate and redecorate our family room, as an example. My spouse just thinks shelling out cash to replace tattered furniture isn’t necessary. We are coming up on 24 years with the furniture. It’s not high quality antique furniture. It’s a basic set from Macys. I’m shocked it’s lasted this long. If I get new furniture, I’ll need to paint. And I might as well tackle the floor (which is literally coming apart) and lighting. That’s not entitled; that’s just commonsense.

Obviously gutting a kitchen isn’t cheap. But at some point it will be necessary. Why wait until everything is broken? Ditto for the bathrooms. Anyone else have a home built in the first part of the 1980s? How is your plumbing holding up? Should we just wait until something explodes? We have upgraded all toilets, but we’ve had a lot of drain issues lately. Not surprising given the old plumbing.

I think it’s silly to call me entitled. An entitled person wouldn’t tolerate what I have for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm always surprised by how these conversations go. Any expressed desire to live in an aesthetically pleasing, functional home environment is met with cost-benefit calculations and the inevitable reality that "there will not be a return on the investment." So one lives the prime of their life with sub-optimal kitchens and substandard HVAC and not enough space for the family, while you sock away money for when you're 70, and for what? I am not advocating spendthrift ignoring of future needs, but I am questioning the rigid dismissal of actually enjoying NOW. I've seen plenty of people squirrel away the funds while living in falling apart, outdated, substandard housing, and then drop dead before they "downsize" and "recoup their investment." Not interested. Thanks.

Op here. Thanks for your support!

I’d rather have a nice home now for our family. I’ll happily downsize to something cheap and tiny if I make it to 70.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am definitely routing for you. I cannot imagine living in a home that is falling apart, a neighborhood eyesore (peeling garage, bulging gutters,) and an embarrassment.

At the least, I would get price on new windows, garage doors, gutters to get the house in line with neighborhood, energy efficient, and safety. If you cannot open some windows and there is a fire how would your dc get out?

Next, I’d do do the kitchen as you spend all your time in there. You will likely be in your home another 20 yrs if your dc are still in elementary. Do it now.

Lastly, the bathrooms.

On your own or one room at a time by a handyman you can paint, then declutter.

I am not artistic, musical, athletic, or even a great cook but I am very organized, clean, and have an eye for color/ harmony so the big ticket things ( windows, kitchen, bathrooms need to be outsourced) but I have found you can do the interior without spending a fortune.

I really hope you can get your spouse on board. Wishing you the best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am definitely routing for you. I cannot imagine living in a home that is falling apart, a neighborhood eyesore (peeling garage, bulging gutters,) and an embarrassment.

At the least, I would get price on new windows, garage doors, gutters to get the house in line with neighborhood, energy efficient, and safety. If you cannot open some windows and there is a fire how would your dc get out?

Next, I’d do do the kitchen as you spend all your time in there. You will likely be in your home another 20 yrs if your dc are still in elementary. Do it now.

Lastly, the bathrooms.

On your own or one room at a time by a handyman you can paint, then declutter.

I am not artistic, musical, athletic, or even a great cook but I am very organized, clean, and have an eye for color/ harmony so the big ticket things ( windows, kitchen, bathrooms need to be outsourced) but I have found you can do the interior without spending a fortune.

I really hope you can get your spouse on board. Wishing you the best!

Thank you, pp!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm always surprised by how these conversations go. Any expressed desire to live in an aesthetically pleasing, functional home environment is met with cost-benefit calculations and the inevitable reality that "there will not be a return on the investment." So one lives the prime of their life with sub-optimal kitchens and substandard HVAC and not enough space for the family, while you sock away money for when you're 70, and for what? I am not advocating spendthrift ignoring of future needs, but I am questioning the rigid dismissal of actually enjoying NOW. I've seen plenty of people squirrel away the funds while living in falling apart, outdated, substandard housing, and then drop dead before they "downsize" and "recoup their investment." Not interested. Thanks.

Long term care is expensive. So is tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

I've been following and this is what has been bothering me about OP's attitude. She comes across as she feels she is entitled to home renovations and new furniture just because things are old and/or falling apart. That is just not how it works. I honestly wish it did but that is not how life is. You either can afford things or you do without. This is such a basic tenet of life yet OP does not seem to understand. Her husband does not seem to think they can afford all she wants done. Because she comes across as, frankly, immature and entitled I find myself finding her husband's stance way more credible.

Whatever.

The reality is of course we can afford to renovate and redecorate our family room, as an example. My spouse just thinks shelling out cash to replace tattered furniture isn’t necessary. We are coming up on 24 years with the furniture. It’s not high quality antique furniture. It’s a basic set from Macys. I’m shocked it’s lasted this long. If I get new furniture, I’ll need to paint. And I might as well tackle the floor (which is literally coming apart) and lighting. That’s not entitled; that’s just commonsense.

Obviously gutting a kitchen isn’t cheap. But at some point it will be necessary. Why wait until everything is broken? Ditto for the bathrooms. Anyone else have a home built in the first part of the 1980s? How is your plumbing holding up? Should we just wait until something explodes? We have upgraded all toilets, but we’ve had a lot of drain issues lately. Not surprising given the old plumbing.

I think it’s silly to call me entitled. An entitled person wouldn’t tolerate what I have for decades.

Okay, no. Talking about it in this way is not helping you, OP! Replacing furniture is not "necessary". You don't get to tell your spouse what's "reality". You don't "need to" paint just because you got furniture. And it's not "just commonsense". It's a difference of opinion. Try to be more respectful of your DH if you want to reach a workable compromise! The way you talk, I don't blame him for thinking it's a slippery slope and if he gives you an inch you'll take a mile. FWIW I totally agree with you on the value of updating things and doing maintenance and I think what you propose sounds reasonable. But you really, really need to understand how your attitude and your langauge is not helping you get what you want.