How to convince spouse home renovations make financial sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Okay, but what's actually wrong with your furniture? Is it rickety, is it torn, is the fabric wearing holes? I bet if you sand, stain, and re-seal the kitchen table it will look way better.

Age alone is not a reason to replace things. Have you heard of antiques, it's a whole industry!

+1 sorry op much of our furniture is from our parents in the 80’s buying. I can’t imagine how much more throw away our society would be if we all bought new furniture every ten years. I get that ikea or wayfsir particle board might not make it but if you have a dark wood dining room table you sand it and re-stain it you don’t throw it in the dump!

Do you have a 23 year old sofa?

I do and still looks relatively new. It is natural wood and black leather sofa. Very good quality so will easily last another 15 yrs if I want to keep it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would start with the outside appearance. Have shutters and front door painted, the garage door repainted or replaced and fix the gutter. Use your Equity to upgrade the inside. Pay off one project before you start another. You should not let your house continue to deteriorate when it’s worth what it is.

Agree. They should at last keep up with regular maintenance. Not doing so leads to more costly problems.

[Anonymous]

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.



These are wants. Not needs. If the toilet flushes and the drains drain then it is cosmetic. Remove and repair caulk. Paint yourself (or hire painters). Everything else is a want. And in 15 years no one will want to pay for your 2023 renovations. It can actually be easier to sell your 1980s house because then buyers know you are not trying to pass off your renovation as recent in the pricing. You would be much better off paying for a handyman to keep everything in working order than doing a cheap/middle-of-the road renovation. So no, I can't help convince your spouse that this is a need because it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.



These are wants. Not needs. If the toilet flushes and the drains drain then it is cosmetic. Remove and repair caulk. Paint yourself (or hire painters). Everything else is a want. And in 15 years no one will want to pay for your 2023 renovations. It can actually be easier to sell your 1980s house because then buyers know you are not trying to pass off your renovation as recent in the pricing. You would be much better off paying for a handyman to keep everything in working order than doing a cheap/middle-of-the road renovation. So no, I can't help convince your spouse that this is a need because it isn't.

In the mid 2000s I was gifted a white sofa with pink flowers from the 80s. I kept that for many years. It was functional. Last year I bought the first sofa I have ever purchased. I'm early 40s. Needs vs. wants. Thank goodness they're teaching kids the difference in elementary school these days.

[Anonymous]

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Bedroom furniture, kitchen furniture, office furniture are from 1998. We do have some newer dining room furniture -- from 2001. Our coffee table is now officially antique as it was a hand-me-down from my mother in law who bought it in the early 90s. But we repainted out dining room and get compliments on it. Same furniture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

These are wants. Not needs. If the toilet flushes and the drains drain then it is cosmetic. Remove and repair caulk. Paint yourself (or hire painters). Everything else is a want. And in 15 years no one will want to pay for your 2023 renovations. It can actually be easier to sell your 1980s house because then buyers know you are not trying to pass off your renovation as recent in the pricing. You would be much better off paying for a handyman to keep everything in working order than doing a cheap/middle-of-the road renovation. So no, I can't help convince your spouse that this is a need because it isn't.

In the mid 2000s I was gifted a white sofa with pink flowers from the 80s. I kept that for many years. It was functional. Last year I bought the first sofa I have ever purchased. I'm early 40s. Needs vs. wants. Thank goodness they're teaching kids the difference in elementary school these days.

Op here.

I had a fabulous couch purchased by an elderly relative in 1980 from a high-end store. The quality was much different from what I bought in 2000. I kept the 1980s couch in our basement rec room until recently when it finally started to lose shape.

My 2000 macys couch is lopsided and sagging. It’s not comfortable. And it’s torn in multiple places. You can only flip cushions for so long until both sides look crummy.

It’s a need, not a want, to have a place to sit.

[Anonymous]

Just do it OP, what are you getting out of venting or defending your position here?

[Anonymous]

OP, you did not buy quality furniture and you raised a family that further damaged it. OK. Just own your choices and your lifestyle. But don't come here and claim stupidly that just because something is "old", it needs to go. No. You trashed it, and that's why it needs to go. Some of us take better care of our things, and didn't even have a large budget to start with!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Op here.

I had a fabulous couch purchased by an elderly relative in 1980 from a high-end store. The quality was much different from what I bought in 2000. I kept the 1980s couch in our basement rec room until recently when it finally started to lose shape.

My 2000 macys couch is lopsided and sagging. It’s not comfortable. And it’s torn in multiple places. You can only flip cushions for so long until both sides look crummy.

It’s a need, not a want, to have a place to sit.

You have a place to sit. You don't like it. It no longer looks nice because it now looks "crummy" but that does not turn it into a need.

[Anonymous]

OP, what I did was maintained a small savings account for replacing furniture and doing home maintenance. When we bought the house, we considered what needed to be done with what regularity, did the math, and set aside money monthly. Then we draw from that account as needed. It's not an exact science, but it works pretty well. Can you get your DH on board with that approach?

[Anonymous]

Do one renovation every 2 years or so. Don't do it all at once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always surprised by how these conversations go. Any expressed desire to live in an aesthetically pleasing, functional home environment is met with cost-benefit calculations and the inevitable reality that "there will not be a return on the investment." So one lives the prime of their life with sub-optimal kitchens and substandard HVAC and not enough space for the family, while you sock away money for when you're 70, and for what? I am not advocating spendthrift ignoring of future needs, but I am questioning the rigid dismissal of actually enjoying NOW. I've seen plenty of people squirrel away the funds while living in falling apart, outdated, substandard housing, and then drop dead before they "downsize" and "recoup their investment." Not interested. Thanks.

Long term care is expensive. So is tuition.

Live for thirty years in a crappy house with a non functional kitchen so I sock away enough money to have to pay a nurse to spoon feed me when I have dementia. Not as convincing as you think you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always surprised by how these conversations go. Any expressed desire to live in an aesthetically pleasing, functional home environment is met with cost-benefit calculations and the inevitable reality that "there will not be a return on the investment." So one lives the prime of their life with sub-optimal kitchens and substandard HVAC and not enough space for the family, while you sock away money for when you're 70, and for what? I am not advocating spendthrift ignoring of future needs, but I am questioning the rigid dismissal of actually enjoying NOW. I've seen plenty of people squirrel away the funds while living in falling apart, outdated, substandard housing, and then drop dead before they "downsize" and "recoup their investment." Not interested. Thanks.

Long term care is expensive. So is tuition.

Live for thirty years in a crappy house with a non functional kitchen so I sock away enough money to have to pay a nurse to spoon feed me when I have dementia. Not as convincing as you think you are.

If you can't afford to maintain your house and save for retirement at the same time, then you bought more house than you can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

I've been following and this is what has been bothering me about OP's attitude. She comes across as she feels she is entitled to home renovations and new furniture just because things are old and/or falling apart. That is just not how it works. I honestly wish it did but that is not how life is. You either can afford things or you do without. This is such a basic tenet of life yet OP does not seem to understand. Her husband does not seem to think they can afford all she wants done. Because she comes across as, frankly, immature and entitled I find myself finding her husband's stance way more credible.

Whatever.

The reality is of course we can afford to renovate and redecorate our family room, as an example. My spouse just thinks shelling out cash to replace tattered furniture isn’t necessary. We are coming up on 24 years with the furniture. It’s not high quality antique furniture. It’s a basic set from Macys. I’m shocked it’s lasted this long. If I get new furniture, I’ll need to paint. And I might as well tackle the floor (which is literally coming apart) and lighting. That’s not entitled; that’s just commonsense.

Obviously gutting a kitchen isn’t cheap. But at some point it will be necessary. Why wait until everything is broken? Ditto for the bathrooms. Anyone else have a home built in the first part of the 1980s? How is your plumbing holding up? Should we just wait until something explodes? We have upgraded all toilets, but we’ve had a lot of drain issues lately. Not surprising given the old plumbing.

I think it’s silly to call me entitled. An entitled person wouldn’t tolerate what I have for decades.

NP. It’s not the list of things you want to do. They seem ok to me. It’s your attitude that is off putting. Your DH, who you have been married to for a long time, has a different sense of when things need to be replaced. Surely you have encountered this throughout your marriage. How do you compromise with him and get to good place as a couple?

I married a cheapskate too. We are well off and he can’t handle spending money on things he considers wasteful. That’s ok. When something is important to me, I tell him that while it may not balance out in whatever books he is keeping in his head, he should file this one under “wife needs”. I don’t abuse this category. We are generally compatible on expenses. But it does mean we live in a nicer home than he would have bought and spend on dinners out and travel that is probably a touch uncomfortable for him. It also means that we have very in depth discussions occasionally about financial goals and I will help him find savings if we are not hitting some mark he thinks is important.

You come across as unwilling to figure out how to get your needs expressed to your DH without pouting lien a toddler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not expect to get a lot of return on 15 year old renovations

Selling a house 15 years from now with original 1980s everything or with 2023 updates are the options.

Which is better?

I think we will need to heavily discount a home with 1980s fixtures. I think we can rather easily maintain a renovated house (particularly since we no longer have very young children). And we could enjoy our home rather than be embarrassed by it.

You'd be a lot happier in life if you could let go of the shame and guilt, because I'm assuming you think that way for everything: cars, clothes, vacations, college, what people do for a living, etc. Insecurity is poisoning your life.

I empathize if you bought a house with fixtures you don't like, but come on. The immense majority of people in this world live in houses that are not catalog worthy! I live in a very old and tiny house in Bethesda: we could only afford to redo the ground floor. None of the upstairs doors can close, even the bathroom door. The bathroom window frame is falling apart. The floor is uneven. We have the same gutter problem and the garage is so dilapidated it's a miracle it's still standing.

And yet I love my house. I bought it because it had good bones and lots of light coming from all sides. We have a fun garden with plants we took some effort to find online.

You can all the renovations you want, but it's your mind you've got to fix. Don't be embarrassed by old, worn things. Find value in at least some of them. Don't waste your time thinking for one second what the neighbors think.

I hear ya, but you are wrong when it comes to me. I’m not insecure and I don’t try to keep up with the Joneses. As I said, we drive old cars. I still wear clothes I bought in college. I’m not materialistic at all.

The 1980s kitchen and bathrooms didn’t really bother me when we bought our home in the early 2000s, but 20 years later they are really starting to fall apart. I don’t think I’m being ridiculous by wanting to renovate. I mean, you renovated your first floor, so presumably you have a nice kitchen, etc.

OK. It’s just the way you phrased things made it sound cosmetic instead of functional.

Try living with 1980s bathrooms and kitchen and then you’ll realize it’s a functional need and not merely cosmetic.

My family room furniture was purchased in 2000. Anyone else have a sofa and coffee table from the year 2000? Ditto for my kitchen table.

Sorry, but I have to jump in here. My family home in Europe was built in the 18th century. I was put in an antique crib, and much of the fixtures and furniture are from the previous century or earlier. You'd probably die if you saw the kitchen: it's not pretty, but we make great meals in it (the 20th century kitchen, not the original kitchens which are in the basements and have huge fireplaces).

Here in the US I go to estate sales and purchase old, period-looking furniture, on purpose, because it looks well in my 1920s house. You should get a new sofa if it's been damaged over the years, but tables?!? Tables can last for years.

You seem to be under the delusion that these things are disposable. Only a very few people in this world just throw out their interiors every few years and buy new. The rest just replace pieces as they age and live with aging furniture and decor, because it's normal.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, OP. But for goodness sake stop thinking you are somehow owed new decor.

I've been following and this is what has been bothering me about OP's attitude. She comes across as she feels she is entitled to home renovations and new furniture just because things are old and/or falling apart. That is just not how it works. I honestly wish it did but that is not how life is. You either can afford things or you do without. This is such a basic tenet of life yet OP does not seem to understand. Her husband does not seem to think they can afford all she wants done. Because she comes across as, frankly, immature and entitled I find myself finding her husband's stance way more credible.

Whatever.

The reality is of course we can afford to renovate and redecorate our family room, as an example. My spouse just thinks shelling out cash to replace tattered furniture isn’t necessary. We are coming up on 24 years with the furniture. It’s not high quality antique furniture. It’s a basic set from Macys. I’m shocked it’s lasted this long. If I get new furniture, I’ll need to paint. And I might as well tackle the floor (which is literally coming apart) and lighting. That’s not entitled; that’s just commonsense.

Obviously gutting a kitchen isn’t cheap. But at some point it will be necessary. Why wait until everything is broken? Ditto for the bathrooms. Anyone else have a home built in the first part of the 1980s? How is your plumbing holding up? Should we just wait until something explodes? We have upgraded all toilets, but we’ve had a lot of drain issues lately. Not surprising given the old plumbing.

I think it’s silly to call me entitled. An entitled person wouldn’t tolerate what I have for decades.

NP. It’s not the list of things you want to do. They seem ok to me. It’s your attitude that is off putting. Your DH, who you have been married to for a long time, has a different sense of when things need to be replaced. Surely you have encountered this throughout your marriage. How do you compromise with him and get to good place as a couple?

I married a cheapskate too. We are well off and he can’t handle spending money on things he considers wasteful. That’s ok. When something is important to me, I tell him that while it may not balance out in whatever books he is keeping in his head, he should file this one under “wife needs”. I don’t abuse this category. We are generally compatible on expenses. But it does mean we live in a nicer home than he would have bought and spend on dinners out and travel that is probably a touch uncomfortable for him. It also means that we have very in depth discussions occasionally about financial goals and I will help him find savings if we are not hitting some mark he thinks is important.

You come across as unwilling to figure out how to get your needs expressed to your DH without pouting lien a toddler.

It sounds like your partner is more reasonable than my partner.

ICYMI: most people are more blunt in anonymous forums…particularly when they are venting…than they are IRL…particularly when speaking with a spouse they love.