Why do people try to deny systemic racism by saying that “dirt poor POC immigrants succeed”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of systematic racism is based on the premise that society is structurally racist, including the institutions of society, and that is why nonwhite races, although in this case people really mean black Americans, still can't achieve parity in outcome with white Americans despite 70 years post civil rights and 60 years post affirmative action.

One can make a genuine argument that generations of structural discrimination means black Americans have a harder time achieving. However, that is not the same as systematic racism. The widespread success of non white immigrant groups does weaken the argument behind systematic racism because if systematic racism is real, then the nonwhite immigrants should face the same problems and same outcomes as native black Americans. But that is not true at all.

The systematic racism argument is mainly used to keep shifting the goalposts and to absolve the personal responsibility factor as having a key role in outcomes.

This may be the highest IQ post I have read on DCUM to date. Please stop raising the average IQ here above 90. Thanks

Thomas Sowell now posts here. Indian Americans now have the highest levels of wealth in the US. A racist society would not allow that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

I believe this partly true but I also think people are too beholden to their past to embrace their future which holds people back. See Native Americans. It’s a reason why immigrants can move ahead when confronted with similiar challenges as “Legacy Americans.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

I believe this partly true but I also think people are too beholden to their past to embrace their future which holds people back. See Native Americans. It’s a reason why immigrants can move ahead when confronted with similiar challenges as “Legacy Americans.”

I read somewhere that African immigrants thrive and assimilate easy into white culture because they grew up in countries where the white man was there to help them during missionairy work and such. They see white people as good and helpful and even kind. Whereas black americans don't have that same view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A LOT of minority immigrants were closer to aristocrats back home than day laborers. A lot.

You're a racist clueless pos.

Share your dumb post with your cleaning lady if you dare.

I’m sorry you don’t understand migration statistics and prefer just throw out verbal attacks.

That poster was correct in that many immigrants have had a leg up to get here. Whether their name is “Mehta” or some type of Brahmin name if they are from India and can come to silicone valley to code etc. You think any Dalits are coming over easily?

Or Nigerian folks, who are basically the most educated folks, they are already usually at the upper echelons of Nigerian society before immigrating.

Educate yourself before just throwing out the term racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because they do succeed. It is not uncommon in Florida or Texas for first gen immigrants who crossed the Rio Grande to own a brick ranch house and several vehicles 10-15 years later.

The immigrants strive for the American dream and don't have the "gotta get mine" from the govt that keeps you down.

Come on over to Wicomico County Md. The Haitians and Hispanics own the local businesses. They were not living in Maryland 10-15 years ago.

General Dynamics. Lockheed Martin. SAIC. Leidos. These Beltway Bandits have that "gotta get mine" from the govt that keeps government money out of the hands of the local communities that need could thrive. It's not a black or white issue.

Gaslighting
Triangulation
Scapegoating

These are all narcissism tactics to make you believe that African Americans as the only group brought here as slaves, and then legally discriminated against in housing and commerce for generations, have always had the same advantages as newer immigrants.

As a white woman in my early 50s, I find it so disturbing that we haven't advanced more as a country. Prisons are a business. We need inmates in the prison. That's a reality. Where are they going to come from? Yes, people make bad choices. Some people have worse consequences than others. The Military Industrial Complex is too large. More funding should go to education, commerce, and development in under served communities in the U.S. Why do we want a country with unlivable areas, whether urban or rural?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

Please explain more what you mean by this. Move 2,000 miles to where? I'm not black. I'm white. Blacks did move on their own. They moved from to Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Kansas City, Tulsa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

White immigrants who cross the southern border succeed in 10-20 years. They don't have the benefits of state-provided medical care, no benefits of AA during college admission, no benefit of speaking fluent English.

You sound like you never lived abroad. To be "othered" you don't need to be black v. white. In many countries including countries with all Caucasian populations, people are "othered" based on their ethnicity, minority groups, religion, different dialect, etc. People experience systematic discrimination on many different levels. It is very ignorant that you just brushed it off that people from India never experienced it. Go and live in India for a few years to understand their system.

White immigrants from south of the border have the benefits of being white & being considered Hispanic in college admissions.

What is the benefit of being white in college admission?

Not experiencing discrimination in k-12, allowing you to get into advanced classes & programs for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of systematic racism is based on the premise that society is structurally racist, including the institutions of society, and that is why nonwhite races, although in this case people really mean black Americans, still can't achieve parity in outcome with white Americans despite 70 years post civil rights and 60 years post affirmative action.

One can make a genuine argument that generations of structural discrimination means black Americans have a harder time achieving. However, that is not the same as systematic racism. The widespread success of non white immigrant groups does weaken the argument behind systematic racism because if systematic racism is real, then the nonwhite immigrants should face the same problems and same outcomes as native black Americans. But that is not true at all.

The systematic racism argument is mainly used to keep shifting the goalposts and to absolve the personal responsibility factor as having a key role in outcomes.

This may be the highest IQ post I have read on DCUM to date. Please stop raising the average IQ here above 90. Thanks

Thomas Sowell now posts here. Indian Americans now have the highest levels of wealth in the US. A racist society would not allow that.

Poor families in India who couldn’t afford to send their kids to school past age 12 aren’t immigrating here.

[Anonymous]

3rd gen immigrants regress to the mean & assimilate

Immigrants aren’t scared of failure or embarrassment if their business fails. Versus someone who already knows everyone in town; everyone would know who they were if their business failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

Please explain more what you mean by this. Move 2,000 miles to where? I'm not black. I'm white. Blacks did move on their own. They moved from to Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Kansas City, Tulsa.

DP - so I'm not sure all of what the original PP was getting at, but the Great Migration was, what? 70 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

White immigrants who cross the southern border succeed in 10-20 years. They don't have the benefits of state-provided medical care, no benefits of AA during college admission, no benefit of speaking fluent English.

You sound like you never lived abroad. To be "othered" you don't need to be black v. white. In many countries including countries with all Caucasian populations, people are "othered" based on their ethnicity, minority groups, religion, different dialect, etc. People experience systematic discrimination on many different levels. It is very ignorant that you just brushed it off that people from India never experienced it. Go and live in India for a few years to understand their system.

White immigrants from south of the border have the benefits of being white & being considered Hispanic in college admissions.

What is the benefit of being white in college admission?

Not experiencing discrimination in k-12, allowing you to get into advanced classes & programs for example.

Ha - talk to any parent of a kid with special needs, including immature kids with ADHD, about how they weren't discriminated against in k-12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of systematic racism is based on the premise that society is structurally racist, including the institutions of society, and that is why nonwhite races, although in this case people really mean black Americans, still can't achieve parity in outcome with white Americans despite 70 years post civil rights and 60 years post affirmative action.

One can make a genuine argument that generations of structural discrimination means black Americans have a harder time achieving. However, that is not the same as systematic racism. The widespread success of non white immigrant groups does weaken the argument behind systematic racism because if systematic racism is real, then the nonwhite immigrants should face the same problems and same outcomes as native black Americans. But that is not true at all.

The systematic racism argument is mainly used to keep shifting the goalposts and to absolve the personal responsibility factor as having a key role in outcomes.

This may be the highest IQ post I have read on DCUM to date. Please stop raising the average IQ here above 90. Thanks

Thomas Sowell now posts here. Indian Americans now have the highest levels of wealth in the US. A racist society would not allow that.

Poor families in India who couldn’t afford to send their kids to school past age 12 aren’t immigrating here.

This statement that Indian Americans have the highest levels of wealth in the U.S. is completely false. That's laughable. They may have the highest levels of reported and stated income on a W2 to the Internal Revenue Service. There is no way they are the wealthiest Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

Please explain more what you mean by this. Move 2,000 miles to where? I'm not black. I'm white. Blacks did move on their own. They moved from to Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Kansas City, Tulsa.

DP - so I'm not sure all of what the original PP was getting at, but the Great Migration was, what? 70 years ago?

Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but people believe it still impacts black people today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

Please explain more what you mean by this. Move 2,000 miles to where? I'm not black. I'm white. Blacks did move on their own. They moved from to Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Kansas City, Tulsa.

DP - so I'm not sure all of what the original PP was getting at, but the Great Migration was, what? 70 years ago?

Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but people believe it still impacts black people today.

There are people alive today who remember their grandparents and great grandparents who told stories about slavery and the aftermath. In that sense, through stories and Gospel music, yes, slavery would certainly leave an imprint on some family histories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m frankly tired of hearing this.

In 2023, legal immigrants coming to the U.S. to work full-time jobs are a selected bunch, not a random sample. If you’re coming here, especially with your family in tow, from India, Ghana, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, the Philippines and many other countries, there’s a 95% chance you are college-educated, debt-free already in your home country coming here for a funded PhD program or medical residency that you were already accepted into, or a programmer job at a FAANG. If you aren’t already college-educated, you’re coming here as a full-pay international student who had to prove that you had thousands in your bank account in order to get a student visa. While in your home country, you had to pay immigration lawyers & navigate that bureaucracy. Then, you had to pay $1K+ for a flight & to arrange housing. You’re upper middle class or wealthy in your home country.

If you’re coming here undocumented, you had the willpower to pay for a spot on a boat, smugglers and to walk over a hundred miles.

If you’re a Black immigrant coming from, say, Ghana, you haven’t been “othered” your whole life due to your race. And many undocumented immigrants coming from Central America are white.

Saying “immigrants do great, so why can’t natives?” is like saying “private schools do great, why can’t public schools?” because private schools pick & choose their students, just like countries pick & choose immigrants.

Most natives on the lower economic threshold lack the drive. They would not move 200 miles to better their position never mind 2,000. It is all possible here for anyone with drive except AA. The level of discrimination that starts at pediatric care and runs through school is extreme (and I am a conservative republican).

Please explain more what you mean by this. Move 2,000 miles to where? I'm not black. I'm white. Blacks did move on their own. They moved from to Los Angeles, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Kansas City, Tulsa.

DP - so I'm not sure all of what the original PP was getting at, but the Great Migration was, what? 70 years ago?

Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but people believe it still impacts black people today.

You conveniently forgot about segregation, redlining, police discrimination, oh and discrimination based on housing, hair, clothing & speaking.