Alg I in 6th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is some people hear Algebra 1 is offered in 6th grade at some school and they demand it for their progeny, regardless if their school has resources, or even if the child would be appropriately placed. If that doesn’t happen they cry unfairness, even when their child benefited from enrichment, prepping and far more opportunities then most students.

There’s also this misunderstanding that acceleration is a golden ticket to good outcomes, which is probably why people get so worked up about it. Not necessarily, there are kids who do well, but just as many are done with math early because they were accelerated when they shouldn’t have been.

I think we all know it's not a golden ticket to anything and they aren't done with math early as they go on to take other math classes. If they need to slow down, they have that option too in the future.

Algebra can be offered at all schools. They combine the 6th graders with 7/8 graders. The issue isn't Algebra or Geometry as most middle schools offer that but the issue comes in during 8th grade as most middle schools don't offer Algebra 2 as they don't have enough students or a qualified teacher so those kids are bussed to the high school or take it virtually (now if its an option). It's very easy for them to offer Algebra in 6th. That's not the problem. It's what to do with an 8th grader who needs Algebra 2. Its not idea to send a 13/14 year old into a high school in a class that often has 15-16 year olds in it (though its never been an issue for my child).

It isn't easy for to offer Algebra in 6th grade in FCPS or to offfer it at all schools. It requires a specific endorsement that most elementary teachers do not have. Getting that endorsement costs money and time. You need to be qualified to teach it, and the general k-6 endorsement does not cover it.

Ideally, it should be offered by county, not a specific school or district, since most schools don’t have enough students at individual schools to support this. The country should be partnering with a local university or community college to find these kids and offer not only alg I, but higher level of math beyond what their home middle school can offer (which typically tops out at alg I for many schools).

These options are already available, trust me that most teachers and administrators are not set on hurting your child. Work with them to figure out a solution that is acceptable to everyone. Understand that if your child is the only one in school needing such accommodation it will require some creativity, so be thankful and gracious. Understand that you’ll need to do most of the legwork, the school has lots of other things to worry about. Also for everyone’s sake (including your child), be realistic with what is the appropriate coursework, get independent assessments if you need to.

Im the PP but not the FCPS angry PP. My child is in a program like this and attends a high FARMS school; the local college partners with all the county middle schools and provides Alg I-precalc, but specifically for middle schoolers. It is awesome

I posted because my child is using one of those programs as well. Also this may be surprise to some but being polite, courteous and considerate will get you further than being entitled, angry and rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is some people hear Algebra 1 is offered in 6th grade at some school and they demand it for their progeny, regardless if their school has resources, or even if the child would be appropriately placed. If that doesn’t happen they cry unfairness, even when their child benefited from enrichment, prepping and far more opportunities then most students.

There’s also this misunderstanding that acceleration is a golden ticket to good outcomes, which is probably why people get so worked up about it. Not necessarily, there are kids who do well, but just as many are done with math early because they were accelerated when they shouldn’t have been.

I think we all know it's not a golden ticket to anything and they aren't done with math early as they go on to take other math classes. If they need to slow down, they have that option too in the future.

Algebra can be offered at all schools. They combine the 6th graders with 7/8 graders. The issue isn't Algebra or Geometry as most middle schools offer that but the issue comes in during 8th grade as most middle schools don't offer Algebra 2 as they don't have enough students or a qualified teacher so those kids are bussed to the high school or take it virtually (now if its an option). It's very easy for them to offer Algebra in 6th. That's not the problem. It's what to do with an 8th grader who needs Algebra 2. Its not idea to send a 13/14 year old into a high school in a class that often has 15-16 year olds in it (though its never been an issue for my child).

It isn't easy for to offer Algebra in 6th grade in FCPS or to offfer it at all schools. It requires a specific endorsement that most elementary teachers do not have. Getting that endorsement costs money and time. You need to be qualified to teach it, and the general k-6 endorsement does not cover it.

Ideally, it should be offered by county, not a specific school or district, since most schools don’t have enough students at individual schools to support this. The country should be partnering with a local university or community college to find these kids and offer not only alg I, but higher level of math beyond what their home middle school can offer (which typically tops out at alg I for many schools).

These options are already available, trust me that most teachers and administrators are not set on hurting your child. Work with them to figure out a solution that is acceptable to everyone. Understand that if your child is the only one in school needing such accommodation it will require some creativity, so be thankful and gracious. Understand that you’ll need to do most of the legwork, the school has lots of other things to worry about. Also for everyone’s sake (including your child), be realistic with what is the appropriate coursework, get independent assessments if you need to.

Im the PP but not the FCPS angry PP. My child is in a program like this and attends a high FARMS school; the local college partners with all the county middle schools and provides Alg I-precalc, but specifically for middle schoolers. It is awesome

I posted because my child is using one of those programs as well. Also this may be surprise to some but being polite, courteous and considerate will get you further than being entitled, angry and rude.

I think you are confused. That wasn’t me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your child took Alg I in 6th grade, what did high school look like for them as far as math tracks?

In MCPS can take classes like: Analysis 2, AP Statistics, Sports Statistics, Logic, Linear Algebra, Discrete Math, and Complex Analysis after Calc BC.

The only problem there is Algebra is only offered in MCPS to 6th graders who

1) Went to a wealthy Potomac ES that offers AIM in 5th grade
2) Goes to a wealthy Potomac MS that allows students with >250 MAP-M to take it in 6th

Most ES or MS don't have this allow this. DC, who went to a regular ES and even the magnet MS had 250 MAP-M at age 8 and 290s in 6th did not have that option. My point is it has more to do with which school you attend than your child's mathematical aptitude.

Aren’t you bored posting the same thing in every algebra thread on dcum?

What you are saying it’s not true, it’s not clear what test your child took, what’s the school policy etc. a lot of times parents use one datapoint to demand placement as if it’s an mandatory outcome. If your child is a true 290 on the MAP 6+ in 6th grade they’d be in the 99% of 12th graders and they would be tested on prealgebra, algebra 1 and 2, geometry and precalculus questions. Trust me that there would be no reason for your child to take Algebra 1 at that point. Most likely the child is bright, but nonetheless took MAP 2-5 that only tests arithmetic and not prealgebra, and is not a good indicator or algebra readiness. The school probably looked at more data points and coupled with the fact that likely you’re a pain to deal with decided not to accommodate your request because they assessed that it wouldn’t be in the interest of your child’s education.

They’re no public school that can educate the type of student you describe, only viable option is homeschooling. It just sounds like you have an axe to grind or making excuses.

The child scored 250 at age 8 at the beginning of 3rd on the MAP-M for grades 3-5 and 290 on MAP-M for grades 6-8 at age 11. The child went on to place in the top 3 in several statewide math contests and qualified for AIME in 7th. Unfortunately, Algebra is a graduation requirement and you can't skip it despite the higher test scores. I mostly regret that being at a lower-income school deprived them of the same opportunities that are available to many others with less ability.

Are you in MCPS and not FCPS? My similar FCPS child was skipped ahead a couple years in math at his Title I ES, allowing him to take Algebra in 5th. Lower income schools might not have a specific program for handling very advanced children, but they certainly can and do skip outliers ahead on a case by case basis.

It may not be mcps as standard for aim is in 6th. My kid was offered algebra in 6th and skipped aim. Aim is prealgebra. Very rare for mcps to allow in 5th. We are at a low income school.

Wealthy Potomac schools offer AIM in 5th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your child took Alg I in 6th grade, what did high school look like for them as far as math tracks?

In MCPS can take classes like: Analysis 2, AP Statistics, Sports Statistics, Logic, Linear Algebra, Discrete Math, and Complex Analysis after Calc BC.

The only problem there is Algebra is only offered in MCPS to 6th graders who

1) Went to a wealthy Potomac ES that offers AIM in 5th grade
2) Goes to a wealthy Potomac MS that allows students with >250 MAP-M to take it in 6th

Most ES or MS don't have this allow this. DC, who went to a regular ES and even the magnet MS had 250 MAP-M at age 8 and 290s in 6th did not have that option. My point is it has more to do with which school you attend than your child's mathematical aptitude.

Aren’t you bored posting the same thing in every algebra thread on dcum?

What you are saying it’s not true, it’s not clear what test your child took, what’s the school policy etc. a lot of times parents use one datapoint to demand placement as if it’s an mandatory outcome. If your child is a true 290 on the MAP 6+ in 6th grade they’d be in the 99% of 12th graders and they would be tested on prealgebra, algebra 1 and 2, geometry and precalculus questions. Trust me that there would be no reason for your child to take Algebra 1 at that point. Most likely the child is bright, but nonetheless took MAP 2-5 that only tests arithmetic and not prealgebra, and is not a good indicator or algebra readiness. The school probably looked at more data points and coupled with the fact that likely you’re a pain to deal with decided not to accommodate your request because they assessed that it wouldn’t be in the interest of your child’s education.

They’re no public school that can educate the type of student you describe, only viable option is homeschooling. It just sounds like you have an axe to grind or making excuses.

The child scored 250 at age 8 at the beginning of 3rd on the MAP-M for grades 3-5 and 290 on MAP-M for grades 6-8 at age 11. The child went on to place in the top 3 in several statewide math contests and qualified for AIME in 7th. Unfortunately, Algebra is a graduation requirement and you can't skip it despite the higher test scores. I mostly regret that being at a lower-income school deprived them of the same opportunities that are available to many others with less ability.

Are you in MCPS and not FCPS? My similar FCPS child was skipped ahead a couple years in math at his Title I ES, allowing him to take Algebra in 5th. Lower income schools might not have a specific program for handling very advanced children, but they certainly can and do skip outliers ahead on a case by case basis.

It may not be mcps as standard for aim is in 6th. My kid was offered algebra in 6th and skipped aim. Aim is prealgebra. Very rare for mcps to allow in 5th. We are at a low income school.

Wealthy Potomac schools offer AIM in 5th.

Only one or two because they probably have enough kids to offer it to an entire class. Really, it's not a big deal to do it in 6th or 7th. The less wealthy schools just have the kids skip aim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your child took Alg I in 6th grade, what did high school look like for them as far as math tracks?

In MCPS can take classes like: Analysis 2, AP Statistics, Sports Statistics, Logic, Linear Algebra, Discrete Math, and Complex Analysis after Calc BC.

The only problem there is Algebra is only offered in MCPS to 6th graders who

1) Went to a wealthy Potomac ES that offers AIM in 5th grade
2) Goes to a wealthy Potomac MS that allows students with >250 MAP-M to take it in 6th

Most ES or MS don't have this allow this. DC, who went to a regular ES and even the magnet MS had 250 MAP-M at age 8 and 290s in 6th did not have that option. My point is it has more to do with which school you attend than your child's mathematical aptitude.

Aren’t you bored posting the same thing in every algebra thread on dcum?

What you are saying it’s not true, it’s not clear what test your child took, what’s the school policy etc. a lot of times parents use one datapoint to demand placement as if it’s an mandatory outcome. If your child is a true 290 on the MAP 6+ in 6th grade they’d be in the 99% of 12th graders and they would be tested on prealgebra, algebra 1 and 2, geometry and precalculus questions. Trust me that there would be no reason for your child to take Algebra 1 at that point. Most likely the child is bright, but nonetheless took MAP 2-5 that only tests arithmetic and not prealgebra, and is not a good indicator or algebra readiness. The school probably looked at more data points and coupled with the fact that likely you’re a pain to deal with decided not to accommodate your request because they assessed that it wouldn’t be in the interest of your child’s education.

They’re no public school that can educate the type of student you describe, only viable option is homeschooling. It just sounds like you have an axe to grind or making excuses.

The child scored 250 at age 8 at the beginning of 3rd on the MAP-M for grades 3-5 and 290 on MAP-M for grades 6-8 at age 11. The child went on to place in the top 3 in several statewide math contests and qualified for AIME in 7th. Unfortunately, Algebra is a graduation requirement and you can't skip it despite the higher test scores. I mostly regret that being at a lower-income school deprived them of the same opportunities that are available to many others with less ability.

Are you in MCPS and not FCPS? My similar FCPS child was skipped ahead a couple years in math at his Title I ES, allowing him to take Algebra in 5th. Lower income schools might not have a specific program for handling very advanced children, but they certainly can and do skip outliers ahead on a case by case basis.

It may not be mcps as standard for aim is in 6th. My kid was offered algebra in 6th and skipped aim. Aim is prealgebra. Very rare for mcps to allow in 5th. We are at a low income school.

Wealthy Potomac schools offer AIM in 5th.

Only one or two because they probably have enough kids to offer it to an entire class. Really, it's not a big deal to do it in 6th or 7th. The less wealthy schools just have the kids skip aim.

No not really the tigers show up at the office en masse and demand their cubs get acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

[Anonymous]

There is zero inherent difference between the intellectual potential of poor kids and rich ones.

Both of my parents grew up in poverty in Sir Lanka and are now doctors. I grew up surrounded by people on both ends of the socio economic spectrum and overall there wasn’t any difference in how quickly and deeply they pick up new topics or intellectual curiosity etc.

A rich kid who has been tutored outside of school to be able to master algebra in 6th isn’t any smarter than the kids who only get education in school in overcrowded classrooms with 30 misbehaving classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is zero inherent difference between the intellectual potential of poor kids and rich ones.

Both of my parents grew up in poverty in Sir Lanka and are now doctors. I grew up surrounded by people on both ends of the socio economic spectrum and overall there wasn’t any difference in how quickly and deeply they pick up new topics or intellectual curiosity etc.

A rich kid who has been tutored outside of school to be able to master algebra in 6th isn’t any smarter than the kids who only get education in school in overcrowded classrooms with 30 misbehaving classmates.

Well actually they are. Maybe at time of birth they were equally intelligent and had similar potential. But you can’t take a kid that has been intellectually neglected all their life and expect them to be equals with kids that are primed with intellectual interaction since they were babies. This is a home/parent problem, not a school problem. The hours/days kids spend at home far success total time spent at school. School can’t make up the different of a neglected home life. They can make kids proficient, but even that is a challenge with zero home support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero inherent difference between the intellectual potential of poor kids and rich ones.

Both of my parents grew up in poverty in Sir Lanka and are now doctors. I grew up surrounded by people on both ends of the socio economic spectrum and overall there wasn’t any difference in how quickly and deeply they pick up new topics or intellectual curiosity etc.

A rich kid who has been tutored outside of school to be able to master algebra in 6th isn’t any smarter than the kids who only get education in school in overcrowded classrooms with 30 misbehaving classmates.

Well actually they are. Maybe at time of birth they were equally intelligent and had similar potential. But you can’t take a kid that has been intellectually neglected all their life and expect them to be equals with kids that are primed with intellectual interaction since they were babies. This is a home/parent problem, not a school problem. The hours/days kids spend at home far success total time spent at school. School can’t make up the different of a neglected home life. They can make kids proficient, but even that is a challenge with zero home support.

This. It makes a difference getting support at home for a month, let alone go 18 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero inherent difference between the intellectual potential of poor kids and rich ones.

Both of my parents grew up in poverty in Sir Lanka and are now doctors. I grew up surrounded by people on both ends of the socio economic spectrum and overall there wasn’t any difference in how quickly and deeply they pick up new topics or intellectual curiosity etc.

A rich kid who has been tutored outside of school to be able to master algebra in 6th isn’t any smarter than the kids who only get education in school in overcrowded classrooms with 30 misbehaving classmates.

Well actually they are. Maybe at time of birth they were equally intelligent and had similar potential. But you can’t take a kid that has been intellectually neglected all their life and expect them to be equals with kids that are primed with intellectual interaction since they were babies. This is a home/parent problem, not a school problem. The hours/days kids spend at home far success total time spent at school. School can’t make up the different of a neglected home life. They can make kids proficient, but even that is a challenge with zero home support.

This. It makes a difference getting support at home for a month, let alone go 18 years.

It’s always been about parents. The last twenty years of initiatives in education have been trying to solve for this through the school and been failing. Now the narrative is it’s not the parents fault for the circumstances they have provided their kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.


But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.


But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.

It wasn’t the same test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.


But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.

Most of the kids taking Alg I in 6th aren’t taking prealg in 5th since that is elementary school. They are either naturally inclined or are advancing in math at home.