Alg I in 6th grade

[Anonymous]

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I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

Ha ha. The kids scoring 80-90% are not the kids who "work hard" - they're the entitled ones who bully those kids who work hard.

A typical conversation between them and my kid: "What did you do last weekend?" "I went to the Mathcounts state competition." "Nerd, I played video games all Saturday."

Also, side note, we don't use the term "accelerate" - those of us who understand Newton's Second Law of Motion leave such underhanded insults to the likes of Jo Boaler and Tina Mazzacane.

What are talking about? You have a huge chip on your shoulder. Kids scoring 90% are just as likely to be working hard and not playing video games all weekend. Why do you assume they aren’t working hard and are “artificially accelerated” ?

What if you have a kid who scores well above 99% but plays video games all weekend?

That’s my kid!!! Actually both of them!

Mine too. Also year round athletes, play instruments, and are involved in theater. Minecraft made them super quick at square roots at a very young age too.

Why would Minecraft make them super quick at square roots?

[Anonymous]

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I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.


But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.

This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.

You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.

The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.

Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.

They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.

Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.

Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.

+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.

One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:

Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.

Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.

The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....

By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.

Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.

Not necessarily if parents supplemented at home or those kids were just very smart. If the lower level kids did have a better foundation and knowledge they would be testing higher on map. In mcps, the 4-5 graders can take compacted math at almost all es. Then in MS, those with high map scores who don’t get into or choose magnet at some MS are offered algebra.

Mcps is offering tons of free tutoring so if parents don’t choose to use it, that’s on them.

Yes, but more often than not the kids who were artificially accelerated had less solid foundation than many of the kids who did not have these opportunities lavished on them. Ironically, they often surpass the kids by high school. I think this is why schools like Blair make math pathway more of a choice.

Yeah I think you may be right, That’s why the college and professional outcomes of high schools like Lewis and Lake Braddock actually indicate that Lewis graduates have more STEM success.

The data never lies.

Mcps has 109 slots at Blair. They only have two true magnets. So, 800 applued, maybe half qualified but many did not get in due to space.

The mean MAP score (on the 6-8 grade MAP) for applicants last year was 255. Do you really think that half the applicants were qualified? Man of admitted students was 280.

I stand corrected. I was thinking how so many kids have straight A's but would be curious as to the MAP-M distribution. I remember reading a poster from one parent whose kid got in that scored 274. I imagined they had a solid essay. I also wonder if the MAP-M score is more of a filter where they put any app above a threshold in a pile for review like how GPA is often used for graduate admissions. Anyway just speculation.

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

The problem is not all kids have the same stem opportunities at every school. We put zero effort into the application as my child didn't want to go and got waitlisted.

All kids have science and math at every school. Kids that are excelling several grades above their given grade aren’t doing it because of what school is teaching them. They are learning at home.

Both statements are true. In fact, many of the kids getting more enrichment at home attend schools that also provide additional enrichment further widening the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

Ha ha. The kids scoring 80-90% are not the kids who "work hard" - they're the entitled ones who bully those kids who work hard.

A typical conversation between them and my kid: "What did you do last weekend?" "I went to the Mathcounts state competition." "Nerd, I played video games all Saturday."

Also, side note, we don't use the term "accelerate" - those of us who understand Newton's Second Law of Motion leave such underhanded insults to the likes of Jo Boaler and Tina Mazzacane.

What are talking about? You have a huge chip on your shoulder. Kids scoring 90% are just as likely to be working hard and not playing video games all weekend. Why do you assume they aren’t working hard and are “artificially accelerated” ?

What if you have a kid who scores well above 99% but plays video games all weekend?

That’s my kid!!! Actually both of them!

Mine too. Also year round athletes, play instruments, and are involved in theater. Minecraft made them super quick at square roots at a very young age too.

Why would Minecraft make them super quick at square roots?

Minecraft has square roots in game: the potatoes, the carrots, and the beetroots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.

But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

Ha ha. The kids scoring 80-90% are not the kids who "work hard" - they're the entitled ones who bully those kids who work hard.

A typical conversation between them and my kid: "What did you do last weekend?" "I went to the Mathcounts state competition." "Nerd, I played video games all Saturday."

Also, side note, we don't use the term "accelerate" - those of us who understand Newton's Second Law of Motion leave such underhanded insults to the likes of Jo Boaler and Tina Mazzacane.

What are talking about? You have a huge chip on your shoulder. Kids scoring 90% are just as likely to be working hard and not playing video games all weekend. Why do you assume they aren’t working hard and are “artificially accelerated” ?

What if you have a kid who scores well above 99% but plays video games all weekend?

That’s my kid!!! Actually both of them!

Mine too. Also year round athletes, play instruments, and are involved in theater. Minecraft made them super quick at square roots at a very young age too.

Why would Minecraft make them super quick at square roots?

No idea, but quizzes can be built in Minecraft. A room that explodes unless you give the right answer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

How do you know whether it was essay, or achievements, or both, or neither (random tiebreaker, geographic balance, whatever)?

The essay and the achievements section were the differentiator. They didn’t have any other info to use to make the decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

How do you know whether it was essay, or achievements, or both, or neither (random tiebreaker, geographic balance, whatever)?

The essay and the achievements section were the differentiator. They didn’t have any other info to use to make the decision.

The essay was a paragraph. The essay is not going to be it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mcps has 109 slots at Blair. They only have two true magnets. So, 800 applued, maybe half qualified but many did not get in due to space.

The mean MAP score (on the 6-8 grade MAP) for applicants last year was 255. Do you really think that half the applicants were qualified? Man of admitted students was 280.

What is the source of that data?

The magnet coordinator at Blair. Those numbers are approx- he did give the exact numbers but I don’t recall what f it was 256 and 284 for example but it was very close to 255 and 280. I can look up my notes and give you the exact number of it matters….

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.

From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)

Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.


But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.

Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.

It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.

What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.

Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.

The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.

Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class

No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.

Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.

This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.

You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.

The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.

Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.

They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.

Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.

Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.

+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.

One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:

Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.

Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.

The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....

By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.

Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.

Not necessarily if parents supplemented at home or those kids were just very smart. If the lower level kids did have a better foundation and knowledge they would be testing higher on map. In mcps, the 4-5 graders can take compacted math at almost all es. Then in MS, those with high map scores who don’t get into or choose magnet at some MS are offered algebra.

Mcps is offering tons of free tutoring so if parents don’t choose to use it, that’s on them.

Yes, but more often than not the kids who were artificially accelerated had less solid foundation than many of the kids who did not have these opportunities lavished on them. Ironically, they often surpass the kids by high school. I think this is why schools like Blair make math pathway more of a choice.

Yeah I think you may be right, That’s why the college and professional outcomes of high schools like Lewis and Lake Braddock actually indicate that Lewis graduates have more STEM success.

The data never lies.

Mcps has 109 slots at Blair. They only have two true magnets. So, 800 applued, maybe half qualified but many did not get in due to space.

The mean MAP score (on the 6-8 grade MAP) for applicants last year was 255. Do you really think that half the applicants were qualified? Man of admitted students was 280.

I stand corrected. I was thinking how so many kids have straight A's but would be curious as to the MAP-M distribution. I remember reading a poster from one parent whose kid got in that scored 274. I imagined they had a solid essay. I also wonder if the MAP-M score is more of a filter where they put any app above a threshold in a pile for review like how GPA is often used for graduate admissions. Anyway just speculation.

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

The problem is not all kids have the same stem opportunities at every school. We put zero effort into the application as my child didn't want to go and got waitlisted.

All kids have science and math at every school. Kids that are excelling several grades above their given grade aren’t doing it because of what school is teaching them. They are learning at home.

Both statements are true. In fact, many of the kids getting more enrichment at home attend schools that also provide additional enrichment further widening the achievement gap.

In mcps beyond compacted math which is very basic mcps provided us no enrichment. We did everything at home. Except acceleration in math in ms, there is nothing for English or science. They don’t even read books anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mcps has 109 slots at Blair. They only have two true magnets. So, 800 applued, maybe half qualified but many did not get in due to space.

The mean MAP score (on the 6-8 grade MAP) for applicants last year was 255. Do you really think that half the applicants were qualified? Man of admitted students was 280.

What is the source of that data?

Good question. They did state that there were 100 slots but never any criteria. I think only half got into the lottery/waitlisted.

There is no lottery. We are talking about high school here, and they were very clear on the datapoints that were available to the selection committee if you went to any open houses or asked any questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding Takoma to Blair pipeline, there are several factors to consider.

1. Do people know the invite rates or just the attendance rates? TPMS kids are already near Blair as their home or “adopted” cluster, so more likely to accept an invite.


2. Do TPMS attendees get invited to Blair at a higher rate than TPMS invitees who decline? And does this vary by home school? In other words, is TPMS boosting kids into Blair more or less than TPMS is early identifying students who are going to get invited to Blair regardless?

There are only 100 slots for each program. A large number go to the tons but not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

How do you know whether it was essay, or achievements, or both, or neither (random tiebreaker, geographic balance, whatever)?

It was also a quasi lottery but reality is they are looking at all those things, especially race and gender. Half came from Takoma, maybe more so that left very few slots for outside magnet kids.

NO THEY WERE NOT. If you actually knew anything about this at all you would know that it was race-blind and school-blind. I’m think but am not certain that they may have known gender. They did not know the students names, addresses, schools, or grades outside of math, science and computer science or any other test scores other than the most recent math MAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding Takoma to Blair pipeline, there are several factors to consider.

1. Do people know the invite rates or just the attendance rates? TPMS kids are already near Blair as their home or “adopted” cluster, so more likely to accept an invite.


2. Do TPMS attendees get invited to Blair at a higher rate than TPMS invitees who decline? And does this vary by home school? In other words, is TPMS boosting kids into Blair more or less than TPMS is early identifying students who are going to get invited to Blair regardless?

Very few kids from any school turn down the Blair magnet. They have almost zero movement in their waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The essay was a paragraph. I doubt they even cared about it that much.

Actually the essay and achievements section was key. Otherwise how do students differentiate themselves? It’s bizarre to me that some people don’t see this. They only get to look at 7th and 8th grade MAP scores, STEM grades for 7th and 8th grade and the essays/achievements. Clearly the writing is what differentiates many of the kids. My own kid has an excellent essay with a very unique hook, all As and a MAP below the median of admitted students. The essay got him in at Blair and four other magnets.

How do you know whether it was essay, or achievements, or both, or neither (random tiebreaker, geographic balance, whatever)?

The essay and the achievements section were the differentiator. They didn’t have any other info to use to make the decision.

The essay was a paragraph. The essay is not going to be it all.

Well, when all you have are:

- grades for math and science for 7th and 8th grade
- the highest of the two most recent MAP-M scores
- the essay/personal statement/achievements written by the student

With only that info what do YOU think helps define one student from another? If you take out the kids with 320+ scores and accept them - how exactly does a kid with a 275 and all As differentiate themself from the other 150 kids with the same credentials? The ONLY way is though what they have written. Any parent who doesn’t recognize this and doesn’t encourage their child to truly stand out in those personal statements is 1) an idiot (claiming there is some other secret way they choose kids!) and 2) losing an opportunity. It may “only be a paragraph” (actually several, but yes, short) but it’s all they’ve got to differentiate!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding Takoma to Blair pipeline, there are several factors to consider.

1. Do people know the invite rates or just the attendance rates? TPMS kids are already near Blair as their home or “adopted” cluster, so more likely to accept an invite.


2. Do TPMS attendees get invited to Blair at a higher rate than TPMS invitees who decline? And does this vary by home school? In other words, is TPMS boosting kids into Blair more or less than TPMS is early identifying students who are going to get invited to Blair regardless?

There are only 100 slots for each program. A large number go to the tons but not all.

They invite a few more than 100. That means some years they have 100-110 if no one declines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mcps has 109 slots at Blair. They only have two true magnets. So, 800 applued, maybe half qualified but many did not get in due to space.

The mean MAP score (on the 6-8 grade MAP) for applicants last year was 255. Do you really think that half the applicants were qualified? Man of admitted students was 280.

What is the source of that data?

The magnet coordinator at Blair. Those numbers are approx- he did give the exact numbers but I don’t recall what f it was 256 and 284 for example but it was very close to 255 and 280. I can look up my notes and give you the exact number of it matters….

Those numbers are quite plausible.
235 is "passing" algebra for middle schoolers who are taking Algebra 1 above grade level and want to continue to geometry above grade level.
260 is barely passing Geometry.
>260 are given for consistent correctness on Algebra 1 and Geometry problems.
There is no higher level material than that.

For 8th grade winter:
255 is 92%ile
273 is 99%ile where the chart stops and higher scores only have simulated/projected percentiles.

280 is 97.5%ile for 12th grade. (Most people never fully master algebra and geometry, even near the high end.)

So I'd expect Blair admissions to look for somewhere around 265+, and not care about difference in the 275+ cohort, and look at other achievement and science grades t differentiate.

Of course the students with high math/science achievements probably also have extra high MAP.

https://resources.njgifted.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2020-NWEA-Math-Norms.pdf