Missing middle is perfect antidote for Arlington racists

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's wonderful how rich people can buy a large plot, do what they want with it, then virtue signal on social media.

This dude is my new favorite rabbit hole.

First off, $4m house from running a daycare? is that typical? i thought daycare workers were paid so little because there is so little money after running the business?

Second, he is now out of that gig and an "entrepreneur" -- with no mention of his new business, though I suspect it's "real estate mogul wannabe".

Finally, let's say people did get sus about his families designs for such a huge property -- does anyone know if they have moved in or started renovation or anything, or if they just bought it waiting for MM to be passed? No one would ever assume someone is a worker on a property unless they climbed out of a landscaping truck with a landscaping polo on -- its 2023 and Arlington is way to woke for that. But how did the newspaper even find these owners to get these racy quotes?? Are they going around complaining about their new neighbors to the newspapers? How did they even get interviewed for the story?

Many people around here are loaded. Not sure why you're questioning the finances of this particular couple. Who met each other in law school.

The author of the article seems to be following missing middle & other local real estate news. He has written about this property *and* local racism before so not surprising that he's following up on it.
https://www.fcnp.com/author/charlie-clark/

Sure maybe he’s wealthy, but from daycare — which famously underpay their workers.

You are sure making a lot of assumptions about this couple. Why do you assume it's the husband who is wealthy? Why do you assume it's just from daycare?

No one assumes the $ are solely from daycare profits. The main point of reviewing what can be built on the 1.17 acre lot is the fact that the ARL persons in charge had no common sense on lot size and what can be built by right zoning. From number of units to access, parking, vehicle count.

PP was definitely making assumptions about who was wealthy and why.

They are presumably both attorneys given that they met in law school. There are a billion wealthy attorneys in Arlington. Interesting that the PP is questioning how this particular couple gained their wealth.

Zoning is a different topic than the comments above.

I'm not surprised two rich attorneys marketed their palatial development as some anti-racist production. Gets them good press and ensures neighbors and the county are pre-emptively racist in case they dare to complain.

Neighbors can complain all they want. The couple can do many things here by right.

Right but if your new townhouse development is protested vehemently by the neighbors, future buyers will see that press and be hesitant to buy

Calling neighbors racist is probably dicey too, but the stink of buying one of the hated townhomes will depress the value.

“Vehemently protesting” how exactly?

Cranky old Karens putting up lawn signs? Nothing they can do that won’t harm themselves more.

If any part of this sort is remotely true, would you want to buy into a neighborhood where most of the people hated you?

Anyway, the owner just sounds like a fledgling developer with a good story. In practice, in super desirable areas you’d think that the neighbors would band together to outbid outside developers on properties for the sake of neighborhood integrity.

There is no shortage of buyers in lower price ranges. I’m sure they’ll find enough who can look past cranky lawn signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The deleted comments are proof that racists are alive and well in Arlington - not surprising that this couple had a bad experience.

Curious what you saw, but a Pakistani-American is hardly novel in N Arlington. If anyone had a stereotype, they would assume he was a doctor!

I guess the wife is PR, which have different stereotypes but I really am skeptical they received any racist baiting.

Now a notice of demolition, and cagey answers as to what they are building in its place — that will surely get neighbors riled up and unfriendly.

The owner is subdividing at least, and wants to deflect the anger by claiming racism.

Similarly, racist comments are hardly novel in N Arlington.

I'm not surprised at all that this couple received negative comments - before the demo was posted.

Interesting. Do you live in Donaldson Run? Because I did and I know quite a few mixed marriage couples that live there and are quite happy. I also think that MMH is very unpopular in N Arlington so I have no doubt that people were asking questions and are pleased with their neighborhood being testing ground for two lots of MMH. But hey it’s a winning strategy pull the race card to shut everybody up.

"I have friends who live in Donaldson Run and are happy. This shows that nobody ever says anything racist to anybody there."

The fact that they feel welcome is more proof than you have that it’s racist so… please feel free to provide proof that racist incidents are happening in North Arlington.

DP.

1. Read the article.
2. Neighbors in a nearby neighborhood have assumed I’m the nanny.

I would love to know what kind of conversation you had with these people where it became apparent that they thought you were the nanny. Do they ask you? Where is the mom? When do you get off work? Like how does it even come up about your relationship to the child.

Also it could be just they thought you looked too young (or too old) to be a mom of that age kid. Ageist yes, but society is okay with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's wonderful how rich people can buy a large plot, do what they want with it, then virtue signal on social media.

This dude is my new favorite rabbit hole.

First off, $4m house from running a daycare? is that typical? i thought daycare workers were paid so little because there is so little money after running the business?

Second, he is now out of that gig and an "entrepreneur" -- with no mention of his new business, though I suspect it's "real estate mogul wannabe".

Finally, let's say people did get sus about his families designs for such a huge property -- does anyone know if they have moved in or started renovation or anything, or if they just bought it waiting for MM to be passed? No one would ever assume someone is a worker on a property unless they climbed out of a landscaping truck with a landscaping polo on -- its 2023 and Arlington is way to woke for that. But how did the newspaper even find these owners to get these racy quotes?? Are they going around complaining about their new neighbors to the newspapers? How did they even get interviewed for the story?

Many people around here are loaded. Not sure why you're questioning the finances of this particular couple. Who met each other in law school.

The author of the article seems to be following missing middle & other local real estate news. He has written about this property *and* local racism before so not surprising that he's following up on it.
https://www.fcnp.com/author/charlie-clark/

Sure maybe he’s wealthy, but from daycare — which famously underpay their workers.

You are sure making a lot of assumptions about this couple. Why do you assume it's the husband who is wealthy? Why do you assume it's just from daycare?

No one assumes the $ are solely from daycare profits. The main point of reviewing what can be built on the 1.17 acre lot is the fact that the ARL persons in charge had no common sense on lot size and what can be built by right zoning. From number of units to access, parking, vehicle count.

PP was definitely making assumptions about who was wealthy and why.

They are presumably both attorneys given that they met in law school. There are a billion wealthy attorneys in Arlington. Interesting that the PP is questioning how this particular couple gained their wealth.

Zoning is a different topic than the comments above.

I'm not surprised two rich attorneys marketed their palatial development as some anti-racist production. Gets them good press and ensures neighbors and the county are pre-emptively racist in case they dare to complain.

Neighbors can complain all they want. The couple can do many things here by right.

Right but if your new townhouse development is protested vehemently by the neighbors, future buyers will see that press and be hesitant to buy

Calling neighbors racist is probably dicey too, but the stink of buying one of the hated townhomes will depress the value.

“Vehemently protesting” how exactly?

Cranky old Karens putting up lawn signs? Nothing they can do that won’t harm themselves more.

If any part of this sort is remotely true, would you want to buy into a neighborhood where most of the people hated you?

Anyway, the owner just sounds like a fledgling developer with a good story. In practice, in super desirable areas you’d think that the neighbors would band together to outbid outside developers on properties for the sake of neighborhood integrity.

There is no shortage of buyers in lower price ranges. I’m sure they’ll find enough who can look past cranky lawn signs.

I disagree. People were willing to pay higher prices for townhomes because of commutes, but that is far less important. Arlington schools are declining, the market for townhomes in Arlington is losing buyers, and adding drama and bad press just makes people look elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's wonderful how rich people can buy a large plot, do what they want with it, then virtue signal on social media.

This dude is my new favorite rabbit hole.

First off, $4m house from running a daycare? is that typical? i thought daycare workers were paid so little because there is so little money after running the business?

Second, he is now out of that gig and an "entrepreneur" -- with no mention of his new business, though I suspect it's "real estate mogul wannabe".

Finally, let's say people did get sus about his families designs for such a huge property -- does anyone know if they have moved in or started renovation or anything, or if they just bought it waiting for MM to be passed? No one would ever assume someone is a worker on a property unless they climbed out of a landscaping truck with a landscaping polo on -- its 2023 and Arlington is way to woke for that. But how did the newspaper even find these owners to get these racy quotes?? Are they going around complaining about their new neighbors to the newspapers? How did they even get interviewed for the story?

Many people around here are loaded. Not sure why you're questioning the finances of this particular couple. Who met each other in law school.

The author of the article seems to be following missing middle & other local real estate news. He has written about this property *and* local racism before so not surprising that he's following up on it.
https://www.fcnp.com/author/charlie-clark/

Sure maybe he’s wealthy, but from daycare — which famously underpay their workers.

You are sure making a lot of assumptions about this couple. Why do you assume it's the husband who is wealthy? Why do you assume it's just from daycare?

No one assumes the $ are solely from daycare profits. The main point of reviewing what can be built on the 1.17 acre lot is the fact that the ARL persons in charge had no common sense on lot size and what can be built by right zoning. From number of units to access, parking, vehicle count.

PP was definitely making assumptions about who was wealthy and why.

They are presumably both attorneys given that they met in law school. There are a billion wealthy attorneys in Arlington. Interesting that the PP is questioning how this particular couple gained their wealth.

Zoning is a different topic than the comments above.

I'm not surprised two rich attorneys marketed their palatial development as some anti-racist production. Gets them good press and ensures neighbors and the county are pre-emptively racist in case they dare to complain.

Neighbors can complain all they want. The couple can do many things here by right.

Right but if your new townhouse development is protested vehemently by the neighbors, future buyers will see that press and be hesitant to buy

Calling neighbors racist is probably dicey too, but the stink of buying one of the hated townhomes will depress the value.

“Vehemently protesting” how exactly?

Cranky old Karens putting up lawn signs? Nothing they can do that won’t harm themselves more.

If any part of this sort is remotely true, would you want to buy into a neighborhood where most of the people hated you?

Anyway, the owner just sounds like a fledgling developer with a good story. In practice, in super desirable areas you’d think that the neighbors would band together to outbid outside developers on properties for the sake of neighborhood integrity.

There is no shortage of buyers in lower price ranges. I’m sure they’ll find enough who can look past cranky lawn signs.

I disagree. People were willing to pay higher prices for townhomes because of commutes, but that is far less important. Arlington schools are declining, the market for townhomes in Arlington is losing buyers, and adding drama and bad press just makes people look elsewhere.

Have yet to see a shortage of buyers in Arlington in low/mid range housing, but OK.

It might be worth the risk given the crazy low land cost per unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world does the owner of a daycare afford a $4M house????

Commercial daycare that has many customers paying $$$$$ and staff is paid $. 1.17 acres so that would get the same number of units as a lot that is 25% or less the size under missing middle? That lot could have parking for 8 vehicles plus garage spaces holding 1-2 cars per unit. Lot size is unusually large but a 40,000+ sq foot lot gets the same units and vehicles as a 8000 sq foot lot?

Redfin also has a sale for it for 1m on 1/31/23 which matches the ARL county property website. $2.55m in 2023 List price started at 3.6.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/2561-N-Vermont-St-22207/home/11230323

Aerials for the property are available https://geocortex.arlingtonva.us/Html5Viewer/Resources/3rdPartyMaps/Pictometry_public.aspx

That thing could have well over 10 units but whatever. ARL missing middle is whacky on lot sizes. Maybe it will be 8 townhouses at 1.5 m plus /unit? It could be 5 SFH at 1.8?

There are two lots:
sold for $1 - 51,062 sq ft - SFH
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6212

sold for $1.55 - 11,145 sq ft - vacant
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6213

Many options...

I don’t believe the story that neighbors questions and attitudes are driving them to build MMH. No one makes a 2.5 million decision based on a few conversations- or if they do, they aren’t very smart. With this guy’s business background, that’s unlikely. So this is his “cover” claim racism in Arlington and everyone’s got your back and no will question you. Regardless, verified home builders stayed away from this parcel; I think that says something about how hard it will to be build something and make a great profit. The lot is essentially a giant hill, it’s going to be really hard to build on that.

I think both are true - they bought it for the redevelopment purposes which was a smart move and if white people did it no one would care and racism happens in Arlington and it is blatant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world does the owner of a daycare afford a $4M house????

Commercial daycare that has many customers paying $$$$$ and staff is paid $. 1.17 acres so that would get the same number of units as a lot that is 25% or less the size under missing middle? That lot could have parking for 8 vehicles plus garage spaces holding 1-2 cars per unit. Lot size is unusually large but a 40,000+ sq foot lot gets the same units and vehicles as a 8000 sq foot lot?

Redfin also has a sale for it for 1m on 1/31/23 which matches the ARL county property website. $2.55m in 2023 List price started at 3.6.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/2561-N-Vermont-St-22207/home/11230323

Aerials for the property are available https://geocortex.arlingtonva.us/Html5Viewer/Resources/3rdPartyMaps/Pictometry_public.aspx

That thing could have well over 10 units but whatever. ARL missing middle is whacky on lot sizes. Maybe it will be 8 townhouses at 1.5 m plus /unit? It could be 5 SFH at 1.8?

There are two lots:
sold for $1 - 51,062 sq ft - SFH
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6212

sold for $1.55 - 11,145 sq ft - vacant
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6213

Many options...

I don’t believe the story that neighbors questions and attitudes are driving them to build MMH. No one makes a 2.5 million decision based on a few conversations- or if they do, they aren’t very smart. With this guy’s business background, that’s unlikely. So this is his “cover” claim racism in Arlington and everyone’s got your back and no will question you. Regardless, verified home builders stayed away from this parcel; I think that says something about how hard it will to be build something and make a great profit. The lot is essentially a giant hill, it’s going to be really hard to build on that.

I think both are true - they bought it for the redevelopment purposes which was a smart move and if white people did it no one would care and racism happens in Arlington and it is blatant.

You are ridiculous. MM opponent don’t care if you are white.

The terrain is ridiculous, assume will cut corners and have massive water issues.

[Anonymous]

I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

It's not going to be any more devastating than the fugly McMansions going up everywhere anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

It's not going to be any more devastating than the fugly McMansions going up everywhere anyway.

Community trying to tear itself apart and a fugly McMansion is like comparing apples and spoons. They are not even in the same category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

It's not going to be any more devastating than the fugly McMansions going up everywhere anyway.

Community trying to tear itself apart and a fugly McMansion is like comparing apples and spoons. They are not even in the same category.

Many of the concerns brought up by MM opponents are also true for fugly McMansions.

How exactly will the community tear itself apart now that MM has passed? No more need for community forums/signs/NextDoor debates. People will move on. Some MF housing will be built, but not a ton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world does the owner of a daycare afford a $4M house????

Commercial daycare that has many customers paying $$$$$ and staff is paid $. 1.17 acres so that would get the same number of units as a lot that is 25% or less the size under missing middle? That lot could have parking for 8 vehicles plus garage spaces holding 1-2 cars per unit. Lot size is unusually large but a 40,000+ sq foot lot gets the same units and vehicles as a 8000 sq foot lot?

Redfin also has a sale for it for 1m on 1/31/23 which matches the ARL county property website. $2.55m in 2023 List price started at 3.6.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/2561-N-Vermont-St-22207/home/11230323

Aerials for the property are available https://geocortex.arlingtonva.us/Html5Viewer/Resources/3rdPartyMaps/Pictometry_public.aspx

That thing could have well over 10 units but whatever. ARL missing middle is whacky on lot sizes. Maybe it will be 8 townhouses at 1.5 m plus /unit? It could be 5 SFH at 1.8?

There are two lots:
sold for $1 - 51,062 sq ft - SFH
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6212

sold for $1.55 - 11,145 sq ft - vacant
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6213

Many options...

I don’t believe the story that neighbors questions and attitudes are driving them to build MMH. No one makes a 2.5 million decision based on a few conversations- or if they do, they aren’t very smart. With this guy’s business background, that’s unlikely. So this is his “cover” claim racism in Arlington and everyone’s got your back and no will question you. Regardless, verified home builders stayed away from this parcel; I think that says something about how hard it will to be build something and make a great profit. The lot is essentially a giant hill, it’s going to be really hard to build on that.

I think both are true - they bought it for the redevelopment purposes which was a smart move and if white people did it no one would care and racism happens in Arlington and it is blatant.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

It's not going to be any more devastating than the fugly McMansions going up everywhere anyway.

Community trying to tear itself apart and a fugly McMansion is like comparing apples and spoons. They are not even in the same category.

Many of the concerns brought up by MM opponents are also true for fugly McMansions.

How exactly will the community tear itself apart now that MM has passed? No more need for community forums/signs/NextDoor debates. People will move on. Some MF housing will be built, but not a ton.

More street parking and traffic, overcrowded schools, more competition for scarce community classes and parks (have you eve registered for gymnastics?), more strain on water and sewage systems. A bigger SFH simply removes more trees and has more run off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world does the owner of a daycare afford a $4M house????

Commercial daycare that has many customers paying $$$$$ and staff is paid $. 1.17 acres so that would get the same number of units as a lot that is 25% or less the size under missing middle? That lot could have parking for 8 vehicles plus garage spaces holding 1-2 cars per unit. Lot size is unusually large but a 40,000+ sq foot lot gets the same units and vehicles as a 8000 sq foot lot?

Redfin also has a sale for it for 1m on 1/31/23 which matches the ARL county property website. $2.55m in 2023 List price started at 3.6.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/2561-N-Vermont-St-22207/home/11230323

Aerials for the property are available https://geocortex.arlingtonva.us/Html5Viewer/Resources/3rdPartyMaps/Pictometry_public.aspx

That thing could have well over 10 units but whatever. ARL missing middle is whacky on lot sizes. Maybe it will be 8 townhouses at 1.5 m plus /unit? It could be 5 SFH at 1.8?

There are two lots:
sold for $1 - 51,062 sq ft - SFH
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6212

sold for $1.55 - 11,145 sq ft - vacant
https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us/Home/GeneralInformation?lrsn=6213

Many options...

I don’t believe the story that neighbors questions and attitudes are driving them to build MMH. No one makes a 2.5 million decision based on a few conversations- or if they do, they aren’t very smart. With this guy’s business background, that’s unlikely. So this is his “cover” claim racism in Arlington and everyone’s got your back and no will question you. Regardless, verified home builders stayed away from this parcel; I think that says something about how hard it will to be build something and make a great profit. The lot is essentially a giant hill, it’s going to be really hard to build on that.

I think both are true - they bought it for the redevelopment purposes which was a smart move and if white people did it no one would care and racism happens in Arlington and it is blatant.

+1000

I oppose MMH and I sure as hell would care if a white person wanted to build two 8 plexes on a giant hill next to my house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MMH is going to tear up the community in Arlington. County may have gotten their way but it’s not a good look when there is so much infighting within the community.

Location will keep Arlington desirable to an extent but there will a a lot of bad blood due to MMH. I live one town over in McLean, this is just my reading, of course I could be wrong . We pass through N Arlington many times on our way to restaurants and such and I see plenty of opposition to MMH via yard signs. I guess we shall see how this shakes out.

It's not going to be any more devastating than the fugly McMansions going up everywhere anyway.

Community trying to tear itself apart and a fugly McMansion is like comparing apples and spoons. They are not even in the same category.

Many of the concerns brought up by MM opponents are also true for fugly McMansions.

How exactly will the community tear itself apart now that MM has passed? No more need for community forums/signs/NextDoor debates. People will move on. Some MF housing will be built, but not a ton.

More street parking and traffic, overcrowded schools, more competition for scarce community classes and parks (have you eve registered for gymnastics?), more strain on water and sewage systems. A bigger SFH simply removes more trees and has more run off.

Maybe if there were one on every street, but they are limiting MF. It’s not going to be significant enough to affect gymnastics registration.

Those huge new buildings? Any one of those will have much more of an impact on schools and parks. Why aren’t people protesting those?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How in the world does the owner of a daycare afford a $4M house????

Immigrants work hard, create lucrative businesses, save their money, and buy what they want.

Next question?