UVA McIntire or top 15 school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For high finance, it's Ivy > Stern > Michigan Ross/Virginia McIntire.

For consulting, it's Ivy > Michigan Ross/Virginia McIntire > Stern

Also note that if you're not in the undergrad business schools for Michigan and Virginia, you're dead in the water.
NYU without Stern may still be fine with a quant degree (CS, Math, etc.) due to the location .

based on what?

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Penn, NYU, and Michigan. Top 3

To be more precise. Penn Wharton, NYU Stern, UMich Haas.

[Anonymous]

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Penn, NYU, and Michigan. Top 3

To be more precise. Penn Wharton, NYU Stern, UMich Haas.

Penn Wharton vs. Trump University?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For high finance, it's Ivy > Stern > Michigan Ross/Virginia McIntire.

For consulting, it's Ivy > Michigan Ross/Virginia McIntire > Stern

Also note that if you're not in the undergrad business schools for Michigan and Virginia, you're dead in the water.
NYU without Stern may still be fine with a quant degree (CS, Math, etc.) due to the location .

based on what?

https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Penn, NYU, and Michigan. Top 3

To be more precise. Penn Wharton, NYU Stern, UMich Haas.

UMich Ross. Haas is at UCB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB and MA, while they are not easy, is not that difficult at all.  Anyone can do this job, ... with long and grueling hours. "connection' will very much trump the school where you attend.

Thanks. Nobody even discussed the quality of the finance education. Instead, they viewed colleges exclusively as places to make job connections.

Do these pushy parents even know what investment bankers do? There are many other sell-side finance jobs at investment banks/broker-dealers in fixed-income, equities, currencies, sales and trading, derivatives, and risk management. Then there is buy-side asset management, private wealth management, pension funds and mutual funds. Finally, there are banks, government, and corporate jobs.

If you kid is legitimately smart at a Top 15 national university or selective liberal arts college, then they can later attend a top M.B.A. program or specialty Masters in Finance program. But if they are not as smart, then maybe they need to get a bachelors in business at some "target recruiting school", make connections in a series of investment banking internships, and work hard instead of smart.

I was in high school math team, chess club, and science club. My later colleagues had math and science Ph.D.'s. We found jobs based on skills instead of connections. It is sad to think that parents would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to mold a kid into a preppy, investment banker drone. Of course, I would hate those jobs and have a bad, nerdy personality with clients. If your kid is a hard-working, personable A-minus student who likes business deals, then maybe that is a good path. But there are other ways to succeed in finance, and many other opportunities to explore in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What makes you think that a BSBA with concentration in finance, analytics, or even marketing is different from BS in Computer science or electrical engineering.

Short answer: Marketing majors can't do math nor programming.

Long answer: A typical undergrad business education has hardly any business classes in the first two years. Business is not a single subject. So, students must take accounting, finance, marketing, manufacturing or supply chain, organizational behavior, a required business law/antitrust class, perhaps nebulous "strategy", and technology. Maybe some more statistics/econometrics and math optimization. It is a lot of barely related courses. The math requirements for business are lightweight compared to requirements for science and engineering. Business students tend to be pragmatic, not intellectual. So, you might get a good education by taking rigorous math, analystics, and technology courses. But it is also possible to add a bunch of lightweight electives like "The Global Environment". A degree in computer science or engineering is guaranteed to be rigorous and coherent.

Anonymous wrote:When schools have undergraduate programs(again MIT, UPenn, Cornell, Georgetown, UVA, Emory, Berkely, UMish, Notre Dame, NYU, etc.), it's more valuable than econ in art and Science.

Obviously, a business major will be more business oriented than an economics major. But at schools without business majors, the business-oriented students congregate in economics, and they offer electives like financial economics that would ordinarily be in the business school. The difference is not extreme.

Even if you think business is "more valuable", at what cost? The OP wrote about choosing a "Top 15" school instead of UVA McIntire. Presumably that means places like Northwestern, Brown, or Columbia without business majors. For whatever reason, US News ranks UVA #25, and UVA lacks the cachet of those private schools. Some students will find a better fit at UVA, and it is probably much cheaper and closer to home. Again, these are very different schools. But if cost and location are not issues, those private schools are probably better.

Expensive private schools have professors teach, not T.A.'s. Richard Taylor substituted into a Harvard algebra class on Youtube. He is a historically famous mathematician who helped prove the 240-year-old Fermat's Last Theorem. That is what undergrads get at top schools, and it is rare for Nobel-caliber professors to teach undergrad business, especially at state schools.

The simply idea is that at universities with undergraduate business schools, economics is the major for those that couldn't get into the undergraduate business schools. So the cohort is inherently weaker.

Of course at top schools like MIT, there will be a group that is interested in going on to do Ph.D. But most students will be undergraduate b-school rejects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB and MA, while they are not easy, is not that difficult at all.  Anyone can do this job, ... with long and grueling hours. "connection' will very much trump the school where you attend.

Thanks. Nobody even discussed the quality of the finance education. Instead, they viewed colleges exclusively as places to make job connections.

Do these pushy parents even know what investment bankers do? There are many other sell-side finance jobs at investment banks/broker-dealers in fixed-income, equities, currencies, sales and trading, derivatives, and risk management. Then there is buy-side asset management, private wealth management, pension funds and mutual funds. Finally, there are banks, government, and corporate jobs.

If you kid is legitimately smart at a Top 15 national university or selective liberal arts college, then they can later attend a top M.B.A. program or specialty Masters in Finance program. But if they are not as smart, then maybe they need to get a bachelors in business at some "target recruiting school", make connections in a series of investment banking internships, and work hard instead of smart.

I was in high school math team, chess club, and science club. My later colleagues had math and science Ph.D.'s. We found jobs based on skills instead of connections. It is sad to think that parents would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to mold a kid into a preppy, investment banker drone. Of course, I would hate those jobs and have a bad, nerdy personality with clients. If your kid is a hard-working, personable A-minus student who likes business deals, then maybe that is a good path. But there are other ways to succeed in finance, and many other opportunities to explore in college.

Some have rich daddies so it's less important, but getting a job/career is the most important factor.
You don't make any sense. You need to be smart to get into target business programs. It's a major just liek any other majors.
Why plan to spend more $$$$ on MBA in the first place. It's a decision you make later in your career.
You are wired.

[Anonymous]

McIntire is at best an above average business school.

NYU, Berkley, all the iveys, Duke, UT austin etc offer better curriculum, access to industry and connections.

Its been a mystery to me why it gets ranked so highly..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:at universities with undergraduate business schools, economics is the major for those that couldn't get into the undergraduate business schools. So the cohort is inherently weaker.

Yes, business is a selective major at some schools, but not at others.

UVA is weird, because they have the McIntyre school for undergrad business, and Darden for graduate business. Maybe that gives undergrads a cozier environment. "All the Ivies" do not have a superior business curriculum, because most Ivy League schools do not offer undergrad business.

Some people think it is a waste of money to plan for a two-year M.B.A. when you can develop some finance careers with only a bachelors. I think it is a waste to plan an undergrad education around a profession, because a student can easily change his mind. Instead, choose a college that offers many opportunities. If you want to go into business, then you can get a modern one-year specialty masters instead of an expensive M.B.A.

www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26959/w26959.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:at universities with undergraduate business schools, economics is the major for those that couldn't get into the undergraduate business schools. So the cohort is inherently weaker.

Yes, business is a selective major at some schools, but not at others.

UVA is weird, because they have the McIntyre school for undergrad business, and Darden for graduate business. Maybe that gives undergrads a cozier environment. "All the Ivies" do not have a superior business curriculum, because most Ivy League schools do not offer undergrad business.

Some people think it is a waste of money to plan for a two-year M.B.A. when you can develop some finance careers with only a bachelors. I think it is a waste to plan an undergrad education around a profession, because a student can easily change his mind. Instead, choose a college that offers many opportunities. If you want to go into business, then you can get a modern one-year specialty masters instead of an expensive M.B.A.

www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26959/w26959.pdf

I don't think you are familiar with this area.
When schools have undergrad prorams, they are usually more selective and more of target by leading fiance and consulting companies.
UPenn, GT, Cornell, Emory, UVA, NYU, ND, UMich, Berkely, etc.
Hence you can easily change into other majors(except other competitive ones like CS, Engeering, FS(GT), but it's very hard to change into business program later.

UPenn, Cornell, Brown offer businsee curriculum, so that's 3 out of 8 ivies.

It's just another major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
most Ivy League schools do not offer undergrad business.

business is a selective major at some schools, but not at others.

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think you are familiar with this area. UPenn, Cornell, Brown offer businsee curriculum, so that's 3 out of 8 ivies.

When schools have undergrad prorams, they are usually more selective and ... it's very hard to change into business program later.

I was a business professor at multiple Ivy League and state universities. Princeton lacks a business school, but has economics adjacent to operations research. I would choose that over any undergrad business program. I know an Emory professor whose kid wanted to go to Duke, even though Emory would have been free. Ouch!

If you only choose Penn or UVA for business, then you might be disappointed if you don't into Wharton or McIntire.

Professors often try to send their kids to selective liberal arts colleges.

[Anonymous]

What is McIntire?

Signed, CEO of Goldman Sachs
Signed, CEO of Morgan Stanley
Signed, CEO of every other investment bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
most Ivy League schools do not offer undergrad business.

business is a selective major at some schools, but not at others.

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think you are familiar with this area. UPenn, Cornell, Brown offer businsee curriculum, so that's 3 out of 8 ivies.

When schools have undergrad prorams, they are usually more selective and ... it's very hard to change into business program later.

I was a business professor at multiple Ivy League and state universities. Princeton lacks a business school, but has economics adjacent to operations research. I would choose that over any undergrad business program. I know an Emory professor whose kid wanted to go to Duke, even though Emory would have been free. Ouch!

If you only choose Penn or UVA for business, then you might be disappointed if you don't into Wharton or McIntire.

Professors often try to send their kids to selective liberal arts colleges.

Uh... yes Princeton as well as Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, are those 5 ivies that don't have undergrad Business.
Econ is usually it. Yes, econ at Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Duke, UChicago etc. are great.
So are Upenn Wharton, Cornell Dyson, MIT Sloan, Berkely Hass, Georgetown McDough, etc.

They are just different OPTIONS and equally target programs. Liberal arts colleges are also options.
Your choice or your friend's choice is not universally applicable to everyone in the world.
As I said multiple times, UPenn Wharton > UPenn Econ.
However you can say Harvard Econ = UPenn Wharton.
They are options to people. Your preference to Econ or liberal art college doesn't mean much to other people or the employers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is McIntire?

Signed, CEO of Goldman Sachs
Signed, CEO of Morgan Stanley
Signed, CEO of every other investment bank.

I'm not big fan of UVA, but thier HR department most likely know McIntire as it's considered oneof target school in general.

[Anonymous]

Spending 13 years (K-12) is a waste!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:at universities with undergraduate business schools, economics is the major for those that couldn't get into the undergraduate business schools. So the cohort is inherently weaker.

Yes, business is a selective major at some schools, but not at others.

UVA is weird, because they have the McIntyre school for undergrad business, and Darden for graduate business. Maybe that gives undergrads a cozier environment. "All the Ivies" do not have a superior business curriculum, because most Ivy League schools do not offer undergrad business.

Some people think it is a waste of money to plan for a two-year M.B.A. when you can develop some finance careers with only a bachelors. I think it is a waste to plan an undergrad education around a profession, because a student can easily change his mind. Instead, choose a college that offers many opportunities. If you want to go into business, then you can get a modern one-year specialty masters instead of an expensive M.B.A.

www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w26959/w26959.pdf

One-year "business" masters programs don't replace/supplant the MBA at all - grads of these programs compete with undergrads for jobs, not MBAs. They exist for kids who struck out at OCR during college.