Electric cars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have an electric vehicle? Not hybrid. How do you use them for long road trips? We take occasional long trips (eg Maine) and I’m trying to understand how feasible this is with a car with a range of less than 200 miles. Is it easy to find places to recharge? What is your experience?

The strength and reliability of your charging network is going to determine your answer. We chose our ev as much for the charging network as for the range - Tesla supercharging network plus 360 mile range means we can go anywhere. We have done 6-7 road trips in the past 2 years, half were under 500 mi and half were over 700 miles. It will take you longer in an ev depending on how long you have to charge. It added about an hour to the 700 mi trips, but since I was the only driver, that’s how long it would have taken me in a gas car because I don’t like driving for longer than 3h stretches. We didn’t plan our stops ahead of time - just got in and then roughly lined up our charging stops with when we needed a bathroom break or a meal. Unless I need to drive 6 hours straight in some sort of emergency situation, I’m always going to opt for the ev. We waited 10 min for a charger once, otherwise have never had to wait. We stopped at one supercharger that was adjacent to an electrify america station. There were several out of order signs and people were trying different chargers to find a fast one. We saw an etron that couldn’t disconnect from the charger. That might be atypical, but we have several friends with beautiful luxurious etrons and they won’t take them on road trips because of range/charging issues.

You should also know that range is deceptive. We have a range of 360 mile, but a lot of things can affect that - at higher speeds, blasting ac or heat, being fully loaded with passengers and cargo will diminish that range. Plus you are supposed to charge to 80% for battery longevity, so now the range is 275. And since I want to have a cushion in case I get stuck behind an accident, I don’t want to go below 70/75. So now the range is really 200. So you can see how your range gets eaten into. If you start with a range of 200 and charge to 80%, now you are at 160. And if you don’t want to go below 50, now you are at 110. Which isn’t great.

This is the part that concerns the heck out of me and pushed me to a non-PHEV hybrid. All of the max ranges seemed irrelevant marketing fluff. If I assumed I could only use 80% then my range was 200 or less.

Pp. I’m overly attentive to only charging to 80%, but most people just fully charge on a road trip and then the range would be 300 if you didn’t want to go below 50. I just want to drive mine forever so I want to always obey the 80 rule, but I think I’m an outlier. It did seem worrisome to me to have that range limit at first, but now I don’t give it a second thought. But I live in a town with a big city close by. If I was out in the sticks, maybe I would worry more.

An occasional full charge isn't going to be significant to the longevity of the battery.

You are right, I have to get over it. It’s one of very few things required to maintain the car - no oil, brakes or fluids other than wiper fluid, so my attention gets focused on the battery and tires.

[Anonymous]

Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:not what you asked, but chiming in to say that you would probably the best optimization of energy efficiency, range, and price in a PHEV. I actually think that these are better for the environment right now than EVs because they don't require nearly the same amount of lithium, yet they'll still cover most of your miles in pure electric mode.

+1 Everything I’ve ready about electric versus PHEV pointed my to the Toyota RAV4 Prime. I drive under 50 miles a day, but I drive every single day for kids activities. It will effectively be an electric vehicle for me 95% of the time without the negative battery environmental impact. Im comfortable with the hybrid option for our longer trips. I can’t wait for delivery at the end of the month!

As far as SUVs go, RAV4 Prime offers good MPGe. But the vehicle weighs 4300 pounds, and CO2 emissions during production are roughly proportional to the weight of the vehicle. A Toyota Yaris hybrid weights only 2400 pounds and delivers an excellent MPGe. Obviously, you won't have nearly as much space in a Yaris as an SUV, but if we are serious about climate change then big changes must occur in our attitude towards cars, and towards many other aspects of our lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:not what you asked, but chiming in to say that you would probably the best optimization of energy efficiency, range, and price in a PHEV. I actually think that these are better for the environment right now than EVs because they don't require nearly the same amount of lithium, yet they'll still cover most of your miles in pure electric mode.

+1 Everything I’ve ready about electric versus PHEV pointed my to the Toyota RAV4 Prime. I drive under 50 miles a day, but I drive every single day for kids activities. It will effectively be an electric vehicle for me 95% of the time without the negative battery environmental impact. Im comfortable with the hybrid option for our longer trips. I can’t wait for delivery at the end of the month!

As far as SUVs go, RAV4 Prime offers good MPGe. But the vehicle weighs 4300 pounds, and CO2 emissions during production are roughly proportional to the weight of the vehicle. A Toyota Yaris hybrid weights only 2400 pounds and delivers an excellent MPGe. Obviously, you won't have nearly as much space in a Yaris as an SUV, but if we are serious about climate change then big changes must occur in our attitude towards cars, and towards many other aspects of our lives.

I'm the PP. I just checked, and the Toyota Yaris Hybrid is not offered in the USA. I'm not sure why. Nor is the Honda Fit hybrid offered here. The Prius PHEV Is 3300 pounds -- lighter than the RAV4, but much heavier than the Yaris. It is frustrating that many small, fuel efficient cars that are available in Europe are not available in the USA. Safety guidelines should be changed, IMO, because lightweight vehicles could play an important role in reducing CO2 emissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

[Anonymous]

I live in a (formerly) rural area on the edge of a large metropolitian area, and there simply is not an infrastructure of electric car chargers available, especially for non-Teslas.

I almost impulsively went to look at/purchase a Chevy Bolt EUV, but did research first on charging-yes, I can do a home charger, but there are few chargers available between home and work (in the city). No charger at work either.

I also drive up the east coast sometimes. So at this time, I''m going to have to wait and maybe consider PHEV or a regular hybrid, as much as I WANT to go all electric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

We have two teslas and we live in a snowy climate (have already received 20 feet of snow this winter!). Our range holds up well, but I think it’s helped a lot by the fact that we are at a high altitude so there is less wind resistance. I read that Audis retain their charge in cold weather better than teslas. But as pp said, so far, tesla has the best network. Our neighbor has a beautiful rivian, and he said it’s frustrating that rivian’s network is being built so slowly. He won’t take his on out of town trips.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

Whether or not a car is "viable" is relative to the driver's needs in a car. We drive our cars approximately 6k-7k miles a year. Our winter range (usually mid-200 miles) doesn't take much of a hit at all due to our driving needs, speeds, and types of roads. We charge our Bolt almost exclusively at home and have used it on trips of a couple hundred miles each without issue. We also have a Volt which is driven using electric most of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

We have two teslas and we live in a snowy climate (have already received 20 feet of snow this winter!). Our range holds up well, but I think it’s helped a lot by the fact that we are at a high altitude so there is less wind resistance. I read that Audis retain their charge in cold weather better than teslas. But as pp said, so far, tesla has the best network. Our neighbor has a beautiful rivian, and he said it’s frustrating that rivian’s network is being built so slowly. He won’t take his on out of town trips.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

@50% of EV cars sold in the US last year were non-Teslas. Unlike Tesla, those cars are not beholden to a closed charging network. I know you think you are right. I know you feel certain. The 50% that are not Teslas (that number will grow by percentage and real number) will be fine whether or not your certainty thinks so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I live in a (formerly) rural area on the edge of a large metropolitian area, and there simply is not an infrastructure of electric car chargers available, especially for non-Teslas.

I almost impulsively went to look at/purchase a Chevy Bolt EUV, but did research first on charging-yes, I can do a home charger, but there are few chargers available between home and work (in the city). No charger at work either.

I also drive up the east coast sometimes. So at this time, I''m going to have to wait and maybe consider PHEV or a regular hybrid, as much as I WANT to go all electric.

This. We have an EV that we love. However, we are also not in a super urban area and tend to travel to the mountains or other non-urban areas. While there may be chargers, they are not fast chargers, or they are broken. The number of broken chargers in the wild is crazy. We have had a lot of trouble with long car trips that don't take us on major roadways or through urban areas. It does take some planning and can get super frustrating at times. The infrastructure is still lacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

We have two teslas and we live in a snowy climate (have already received 20 feet of snow this winter!). Our range holds up well, but I think it’s helped a lot by the fact that we are at a high altitude so there is less wind resistance. I read that Audis retain their charge in cold weather better than teslas. But as pp said, so far, tesla has the best network. Our neighbor has a beautiful rivian, and he said it’s frustrating that rivian’s network is being built so slowly. He won’t take his on out of town trips.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

@50% of EV cars sold in the US last year were non-Teslas. Unlike Tesla, those cars are not beholden to a closed charging network. I know you think you are right. I know you feel certain. The 50% that are not Teslas (that number will grow by percentage and real number) will be fine whether or not your certainty thinks so.

?? What do you mean “beholden”? Teslas can use any network other than rivian’s. And rivians can use any network other than Tesla’s. Hopefully that will change and all ev’s will be able to use Tesla’s and rivian’s network.

Btw, Tesla still has 60% of the market in EV’s, but hopefully that number will continue to drop as other manufacturers improve their products. The point is that only 5% of new cars sales in the us are 100% ev’s. As I said, it’s 80% in Norway. That isn’t good enough, but we have to drastically improve the charging network to entice more people to buy.

You seem to think I am a Tesla snob. If Honda had the same network and battery range, I would be driving that instead. It’s just the writing on the wall. Are you willing to take an etron on a 1000 mile road trip? It’s just easier and more reliable with the Tesla network. The goal is for everyone to have such a good and reliable network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

We have two teslas and we live in a snowy climate (have already received 20 feet of snow this winter!). Our range holds up well, but I think it’s helped a lot by the fact that we are at a high altitude so there is less wind resistance. I read that Audis retain their charge in cold weather better than teslas. But as pp said, so far, tesla has the best network. Our neighbor has a beautiful rivian, and he said it’s frustrating that rivian’s network is being built so slowly. He won’t take his on out of town trips.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

@50% of EV cars sold in the US last year were non-Teslas. Unlike Tesla, those cars are not beholden to a closed charging network. I know you think you are right. I know you feel certain. The 50% that are not Teslas (that number will grow by percentage and real number) will be fine whether or not your certainty thinks so.

?? What do you mean “beholden”? Teslas can use any network other than rivian’s. And rivians can use any network other than Tesla’s. Hopefully that will change and all ev’s will be able to use Tesla’s and rivian’s network.

Btw, Tesla still has 60% of the market in EV’s, but hopefully that number will continue to drop as other manufacturers improve their products. The point is that only 5% of new cars sales in the us are 100% ev’s. As I said, it’s 80% in Norway. That isn’t good enough, but we have to drastically improve the charging network to entice more people to buy.

You seem to think I am a Tesla snob. If Honda had the same network and battery range, I would be driving that instead. It’s just the writing on the wall. Are you willing to take an etron on a 1000 mile road trip? It’s just easier and more reliable with the Tesla network. The goal is for everyone to have such a good and reliable network.

You missed the point and the entire thread of the conversation...including the post you made! No one suggested Teslas don't have access to a charging network or that it is limited. You need to work on reading comprehension. What was said was in reply to you (I believe) suggesting that the closed Tesla charging network was the only one that was sufficient. The reply observed that with @50% of new EVs being non-Teslas and charging on non-closed infras, there was going to be a heft and quickly developing infra.

You are arguing against a position no one took!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

Dude!!! Don't you get it? I'm a PP that wants to go electric, but my entire zip code has ONE charger and it's for the guests of the hotel it's at only! Then, for about 25 miles of my 32 mile commute, there are NO chargers. Then there is a Tesla only one. Then there are a few closer to work, but at least one is only usable during hours I'm at my job.

But yeah, I don't want to bother with charging and I like paying for tanks of gas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tesla is the only viable EV at the moment.

I love that you tried so hard to troll here and no one bit. Your life seems sad.

You're a moron.

The infrastructure does not exist in the vast majority of the country for EVs. Tesla by far in and away is so far ahead of everyone else in that department. Tesla has many more years experience making batteries than every other automaker. Many EVs lose tremendous amounts of range when challenged with heavier loads and cold weather. Tesla's range holds up the best. You can hate Elon all you want. The fact of the matter remains, that as of Jan 25 2023, Teslas are the only real viable EV on the market, primarily because of the charging infrastructure they've built up. You cannot take other brand EVs on longer hauls without significant problems for charging and/or time delays.

I know people still like hybrids or are turned off by Elon, or don’t want to bother with charging and would rather get a full tank of gas and be on their way. But the future is EV’s for personal vehicles. Norway has a goal of 100% of new car sales being EV’s by 2025, and they are already 80% of the way there. Eight out of ten new cars sold in Norway are 100% electric, not hybrid. China is over 20% for new ev sales and their charging network is maybe the best.

Dude!!! Don't you get it? I'm a PP that wants to go electric, but my entire zip code has ONE charger and it's for the guests of the hotel it's at only! Then, for about 25 miles of my 32 mile commute, there are NO chargers. Then there is a Tesla only one. Then there are a few closer to work, but at least one is only usable during hours I'm at my job.

But yeah, I don't want to bother with charging and I like paying for tanks of gas

But with a 64 mile commute, you wouldn't need to charge anywhere but home.

I looked for the EV with the smallest range and it's the Mazda MX-30 with a 100 mile/charge range.

From: https://insideevs.com/news/566954/bev-epa-range-comparison-february2022/