Electric cars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

DP yes. The way an EV works is you charge it up once or twice a week. You do not need to have it plugged in to drive, gas station without electricity can not pump gas.

Our local gas stations weren’t working but we drove ~10 miles out and were able to refuel. Today, it’s much easier to find gas stations than charging stations.

It's harder to find an electrical outlet than a gas station? Literally every building has an electrical outlet.

If the power is out around my house it’s easier to go find a gas station a little farther away than it is to go find someone that is willing to let me use their outlet for several hours.

You’re just going to drive up to a random building and…plug in?

In a pinch, yes. All commercial buildings have electrical outlets outside -- warehouses, retail stores, shopping malls, etc. In an extraordinary situation, I don't think anyone will stop me, and that's assuming there's any staff at such places to object anyway.

What's more likely to run out? Gas at the few gas stations around, or every electrical outlet in every building?

If I'm in a hurry, I prefer the gas option rather than hunting around for an outdoor outlet and sitting for hours to let it charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have an EV, but on long road trips we just travel with a portable diesel generator and some fuel. If we run our battery down on the trip, we can easily recharge at our convenience with the generator.

This eliminates range anxiety, but we’re also still saving the planet by driving an EV!

In the car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

DP yes. The way an EV works is you charge it up once or twice a week. You do not need to have it plugged in to drive, gas station without electricity can not pump gas.

Our local gas stations weren’t working but we drove ~10 miles out and were able to refuel. Today, it’s much easier to find gas stations than charging stations.

It's harder to find an electrical outlet than a gas station? Literally every building has an electrical outlet.

If the power is out around my house it’s easier to go find a gas station a little farther away than it is to go find someone that is willing to let me use their outlet for several hours.

You’re just going to drive up to a random building and…plug in?

My plan is:
- Before the big "event" charge my car up at home, so I have 250 miles of range. There may be lines and shortages at the gas station, but no issue charging my car at home.
- Find a working electrical outlet within a 250-mile radius of my house if I need to charge further.

Our power infrastructure is a lot more reliable and resilient than our gas station infrastructure. In my area, gas stations have been closing down as the land gets redeveloped into condos, but there's no lack of electrical outlets.

How would you know about a derecho or 9/11 in advance?

During the derecho, it was easy to get gas once you got out of the immediate area. And I didn't have to hunt around and trespass to find an available outdoor outlet. And then sit there for several hours.

We have both a gas car and an EV. We will take whichever one best fits the situation. Hedging bets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

DP yes. The way an EV works is you charge it up once or twice a week. You do not need to have it plugged in to drive, gas station without electricity can not pump gas.

Our local gas stations weren’t working but we drove ~10 miles out and were able to refuel. Today, it’s much easier to find gas stations than charging stations.

It's harder to find an electrical outlet than a gas station? Literally every building has an electrical outlet.

If the power is out around my house it’s easier to go find a gas station a little farther away than it is to go find someone that is willing to let me use their outlet for several hours.

You’re just going to drive up to a random building and…plug in?

My plan is:
- Before the big "event" charge my car up at home, so I have 250 miles of range. There may be lines and shortages at the gas station, but no issue charging my car at home.
- Find a working electrical outlet within a 250-mile radius of my house if I need to charge further.

Our power infrastructure is a lot more reliable and resilient than our gas station infrastructure. In my area, gas stations have been closing down as the land gets redeveloped into condos, but there's no lack of electrical outlets.

How would you know about a derecho or 9/11 in advance?

During the derecho, it was easy to get gas once you got out of the immediate area. And I didn't have to hunt around and trespass to find an available outdoor outlet. And then sit there for several hours.

We have both a gas car and an EV. We will take whichever one best fits the situation. Hedging bets.

Your posts show you do not have an EV. There are charging stations everywhere. The power would have to be out a week over the whole region to impact my EV driving. If the power is out for over a week for the whole region you will be screwed with a gas car. Good luck buying gas. You do not seem to understand how an EV works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

DP yes. The way an EV works is you charge it up once or twice a week. You do not need to have it plugged in to drive, gas station without electricity can not pump gas.

Our local gas stations weren’t working but we drove ~10 miles out and were able to refuel. Today, it’s much easier to find gas stations than charging stations.

It's harder to find an electrical outlet than a gas station? Literally every building has an electrical outlet.

If the power is out around my house it’s easier to go find a gas station a little farther away than it is to go find someone that is willing to let me use their outlet for several hours.

You’re just going to drive up to a random building and…plug in?

My plan is:
- Before the big "event" charge my car up at home, so I have 250 miles of range. There may be lines and shortages at the gas station, but no issue charging my car at home.
- Find a working electrical outlet within a 250-mile radius of my house if I need to charge further.

Our power infrastructure is a lot more reliable and resilient than our gas station infrastructure. In my area, gas stations have been closing down as the land gets redeveloped into condos, but there's no lack of electrical outlets.

How would you know about a derecho or 9/11 in advance?

During the derecho, it was easy to get gas once you got out of the immediate area. And I didn't have to hunt around and trespass to find an available outdoor outlet. And then sit there for several hours.

We have both a gas car and an EV. We will take whichever one best fits the situation. Hedging bets.

Your posts show you do not have an EV. There are charging stations everywhere. The power would have to be out a week over the whole region to impact my EV driving. If the power is out for over a week for the whole region you will be screwed with a gas car. Good luck buying gas. You do not seem to understand how an EV works.

As I explained earlier, I drive my EV every day. I run down the range over multiple days and then I charge to ~80%. Usually 1-2x/week, depending on my usage.

If we unexpectedly lose power and need to drive somewhere, I’ll evaluate the options. If I have a good range and know my destination has power, I might take the EV. If my destination is uncertain or if I have low range then I’ll probably take the gas car sitting with a full tank of gas. If I have time to prepare I might charge to 100%.

If there is a bigger issue than losing power, I’ll go with the best option. EMP? Take the gas car. Gas crisis on top of another event? EV. Depends on the availability of fuel vs electricity. Along with the destination. I’ve had trouble finding charging stations when heading away from the 95 corridor.

You have a different plan for an emergency. That’s fine. Not sure why you’re arguing with me about mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

Yes, and I didn't evacuate in either case (stayed at my office a few blocks from the Metro until about 10 p.m. on 9/11, plus I never lost power at home).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

Yes, and I didn't evacuate in either case (stayed at my office a few blocks from the Metro until about 10 p.m. on 9/11, plus I never lost power at home).

Er, a few blocks from the White House, rather, which I took Metro home from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good to consider all potential uses and scenarios, but I'm always surprised how much decision making is driven by the 5 percent use or even highly unlikely scenarios like an evacuation. The very vast majority of most people's driving is within close range, and an EV will be perfect for that. No getting gas, no oil changes, etc.

Were you here during the derecho? 9/11?

DP yes. The way an EV works is you charge it up once or twice a week. You do not need to have it plugged in to drive, gas station without electricity can not pump gas.

Our local gas stations weren’t working but we drove ~10 miles out and were able to refuel. Today, it’s much easier to find gas stations than charging stations.

It's harder to find an electrical outlet than a gas station? Literally every building has an electrical outlet.

If the power is out around my house it’s easier to go find a gas station a little farther away than it is to go find someone that is willing to let me use their outlet for several hours.

You’re just going to drive up to a random building and…plug in?

My plan is:
- Before the big "event" charge my car up at home, so I have 250 miles of range. There may be lines and shortages at the gas station, but no issue charging my car at home.
- Find a working electrical outlet within a 250-mile radius of my house if I need to charge further.

Our power infrastructure is a lot more reliable and resilient than our gas station infrastructure. In my area, gas stations have been closing down as the land gets redeveloped into condos, but there's no lack of electrical outlets.

How would you know about a derecho or 9/11 in advance?

During the derecho, it was easy to get gas once you got out of the immediate area. And I didn't have to hunt around and trespass to find an available outdoor outlet. And then sit there for several hours.

We have both a gas car and an EV. We will take whichever one best fits the situation. Hedging bets.

Your posts show you do not have an EV. There are charging stations everywhere. The power would have to be out a week over the whole region to impact my EV driving. If the power is out for over a week for the whole region you will be screwed with a gas car. Good luck buying gas. You do not seem to understand how an EV works.

As I explained earlier, I drive my EV every day. I run down the range over multiple days and then I charge to ~80%. Usually 1-2x/week, depending on my usage.

If we unexpectedly lose power and need to drive somewhere, I’ll evaluate the options. If I have a good range and know my destination has power, I might take the EV. If my destination is uncertain or if I have low range then I’ll probably take the gas car sitting with a full tank of gas. If I have time to prepare I might charge to 100%.

If there is a bigger issue than losing power, I’ll go with the best option. EMP? Take the gas car. Gas crisis on top of another event? EV. Depends on the availability of fuel vs electricity. Along with the destination. I’ve had trouble finding charging stations when heading away from the 95 corridor.

You have a different plan for an emergency. That’s fine. Not sure why you’re arguing with me about mine.

Your modern gas-powered car may also not work after an EMP, since that will have fried all the computers it uses to operate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a 300 mile range Tesla. Our first Tesla had 200 miles. I wouldn’t get less than 300. Road trips are doable bc that’s about the distance when we would stop for food ro a bathroom anyways. We just find a fast Tesla charger, grab a coffee and take a bathroom break and it’s all charged

This is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have an electric vehicle? Not hybrid. How do you use them for long road trips? We take occasional long trips (eg Maine) and I’m trying to understand how feasible this is with a car with a range of less than 200 miles. Is it easy to find places to recharge? What is your experience?

The strength and reliability of your charging network is going to determine your answer. We chose our ev as much for the charging network as for the range - Tesla supercharging network plus 360 mile range means we can go anywhere. We have done 6-7 road trips in the past 2 years, half were under 500 mi and half were over 700 miles. It will take you longer in an ev depending on how long you have to charge. It added about an hour to the 700 mi trips, but since I was the only driver, that’s how long it would have taken me in a gas car because I don’t like driving for longer than 3h stretches. We didn’t plan our stops ahead of time - just got in and then roughly lined up our charging stops with when we needed a bathroom break or a meal. Unless I need to drive 6 hours straight in some sort of emergency situation, I’m always going to opt for the ev. We waited 10 min for a charger once, otherwise have never had to wait. We stopped at one supercharger that was adjacent to an electrify america station. There were several out of order signs and people were trying different chargers to find a fast one. We saw an etron that couldn’t disconnect from the charger. That might be atypical, but we have several friends with beautiful luxurious etrons and they won’t take them on road trips because of range/charging issues.

You should also know that range is deceptive. We have a range of 360 mile, but a lot of things can affect that - at higher speeds, blasting ac or heat, being fully loaded with passengers and cargo will diminish that range. Plus you are supposed to charge to 80% for battery longevity, so now the range is 275. And since I want to have a cushion in case I get stuck behind an accident, I don’t want to go below 70/75. So now the range is really 200. So you can see how your range gets eaten into. If you start with a range of 200 and charge to 80%, now you are at 160. And if you don’t want to go below 50, now you are at 110. Which isn’t great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have an electric vehicle? Not hybrid. How do you use them for long road trips? We take occasional long trips (eg Maine) and I’m trying to understand how feasible this is with a car with a range of less than 200 miles. Is it easy to find places to recharge? What is your experience?

The strength and reliability of your charging network is going to determine your answer. We chose our ev as much for the charging network as for the range - Tesla supercharging network plus 360 mile range means we can go anywhere. We have done 6-7 road trips in the past 2 years, half were under 500 mi and half were over 700 miles. It will take you longer in an ev depending on how long you have to charge. It added about an hour to the 700 mi trips, but since I was the only driver, that’s how long it would have taken me in a gas car because I don’t like driving for longer than 3h stretches. We didn’t plan our stops ahead of time - just got in and then roughly lined up our charging stops with when we needed a bathroom break or a meal. Unless I need to drive 6 hours straight in some sort of emergency situation, I’m always going to opt for the ev. We waited 10 min for a charger once, otherwise have never had to wait. We stopped at one supercharger that was adjacent to an electrify america station. There were several out of order signs and people were trying different chargers to find a fast one. We saw an etron that couldn’t disconnect from the charger. That might be atypical, but we have several friends with beautiful luxurious etrons and they won’t take them on road trips because of range/charging issues.

You should also know that range is deceptive. We have a range of 360 mile, but a lot of things can affect that - at higher speeds, blasting ac or heat, being fully loaded with passengers and cargo will diminish that range. Plus you are supposed to charge to 80% for battery longevity, so now the range is 275. And since I want to have a cushion in case I get stuck behind an accident, I don’t want to go below 70/75. So now the range is really 200. So you can see how your range gets eaten into. If you start with a range of 200 and charge to 80%, now you are at 160. And if you don’t want to go below 50, now you are at 110. Which isn’t great.

This is the part that concerns the heck out of me and pushed me to a non-PHEV hybrid. All of the max ranges seemed irrelevant marketing fluff. If I assumed I could only use 80% then my range was 200 or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have an electric vehicle? Not hybrid. How do you use them for long road trips? We take occasional long trips (eg Maine) and I’m trying to understand how feasible this is with a car with a range of less than 200 miles. Is it easy to find places to recharge? What is your experience?

The strength and reliability of your charging network is going to determine your answer. We chose our ev as much for the charging network as for the range - Tesla supercharging network plus 360 mile range means we can go anywhere. We have done 6-7 road trips in the past 2 years, half were under 500 mi and half were over 700 miles. It will take you longer in an ev depending on how long you have to charge. It added about an hour to the 700 mi trips, but since I was the only driver, that’s how long it would have taken me in a gas car because I don’t like driving for longer than 3h stretches. We didn’t plan our stops ahead of time - just got in and then roughly lined up our charging stops with when we needed a bathroom break or a meal. Unless I need to drive 6 hours straight in some sort of emergency situation, I’m always going to opt for the ev. We waited 10 min for a charger once, otherwise have never had to wait. We stopped at one supercharger that was adjacent to an electrify america station. There were several out of order signs and people were trying different chargers to find a fast one. We saw an etron that couldn’t disconnect from the charger. That might be atypical, but we have several friends with beautiful luxurious etrons and they won’t take them on road trips because of range/charging issues.

You should also know that range is deceptive. We have a range of 360 mile, but a lot of things can affect that - at higher speeds, blasting ac or heat, being fully loaded with passengers and cargo will diminish that range. Plus you are supposed to charge to 80% for battery longevity, so now the range is 275. And since I want to have a cushion in case I get stuck behind an accident, I don’t want to go below 70/75. So now the range is really 200. So you can see how your range gets eaten into. If you start with a range of 200 and charge to 80%, now you are at 160. And if you don’t want to go below 50, now you are at 110. Which isn’t great.

This is the part that concerns the heck out of me and pushed me to a non-PHEV hybrid. All of the max ranges seemed irrelevant marketing fluff. If I assumed I could only use 80% then my range was 200 or less.

Pp. I’m overly attentive to only charging to 80%, but most people just fully charge on a road trip and then the range would be 300 if you didn’t want to go below 50. I just want to drive mine forever so I want to always obey the 80 rule, but I think I’m an outlier. It did seem worrisome to me to have that range limit at first, but now I don’t give it a second thought. But I live in a town with a big city close by. If I was out in the sticks, maybe I would worry more.

[Anonymous]

My daily driver is a Jaguar iPace with 269 summer range and 236 winter range. My home charger provides 16-19 kW per hour and recharges the car from my daily commute within a couple of hours. Although my rural hometown doesn’t even offer pizza delivery to my home, it has numerous electric charging options with about the same kW per hour. Unfortunately, that isn’t what I found on my one and only road-trip with this car. Although I went to a mid-size city, I found that the chargers I planned on using only provided 6 kW per hour which would have meant 18 hours to a full charge. The local Jaguar dealer there couldn’t even help. I finally found an office building with a security guard willing to swipe me into their private employee lot and used their paid charger which within a few hours charged me up enough to get back home. So, for now, we will keep our other car which runs on gas and use it for road trips until there is more supportive infrastructure for electric cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daily driver is a Jaguar iPace with 269 summer range and 236 winter range. My home charger provides 16-19 kW per hour and recharges the car from my daily commute within a couple of hours. Although my rural hometown doesn’t even offer pizza delivery to my home, it has numerous electric charging options with about the same kW per hour. Unfortunately, that isn’t what I found on my one and only road-trip with this car. Although I went to a mid-size city, I found that the chargers I planned on using only provided 6 kW per hour which would have meant 18 hours to a full charge. The local Jaguar dealer there couldn’t even help. I finally found an office building with a security guard willing to swipe me into their private employee lot and used their paid charger which within a few hours charged me up enough to get back home. So, for now, we will keep our other car which runs on gas and use it for road trips until there is more supportive infrastructure for electric cars.

This is why the charging network matters. If you had your car in Norway, you would be able to charge easily and quickly. We were pretty close to buying the etron but reading about road trips in non teslas in the us made us choose a Tesla. It’s our first choice car for road trips because charging is so easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have an electric vehicle? Not hybrid. How do you use them for long road trips? We take occasional long trips (eg Maine) and I’m trying to understand how feasible this is with a car with a range of less than 200 miles. Is it easy to find places to recharge? What is your experience?

The strength and reliability of your charging network is going to determine your answer. We chose our ev as much for the charging network as for the range - Tesla supercharging network plus 360 mile range means we can go anywhere. We have done 6-7 road trips in the past 2 years, half were under 500 mi and half were over 700 miles. It will take you longer in an ev depending on how long you have to charge. It added about an hour to the 700 mi trips, but since I was the only driver, that’s how long it would have taken me in a gas car because I don’t like driving for longer than 3h stretches. We didn’t plan our stops ahead of time - just got in and then roughly lined up our charging stops with when we needed a bathroom break or a meal. Unless I need to drive 6 hours straight in some sort of emergency situation, I’m always going to opt for the ev. We waited 10 min for a charger once, otherwise have never had to wait. We stopped at one supercharger that was adjacent to an electrify america station. There were several out of order signs and people were trying different chargers to find a fast one. We saw an etron that couldn’t disconnect from the charger. That might be atypical, but we have several friends with beautiful luxurious etrons and they won’t take them on road trips because of range/charging issues.

You should also know that range is deceptive. We have a range of 360 mile, but a lot of things can affect that - at higher speeds, blasting ac or heat, being fully loaded with passengers and cargo will diminish that range. Plus you are supposed to charge to 80% for battery longevity, so now the range is 275. And since I want to have a cushion in case I get stuck behind an accident, I don’t want to go below 70/75. So now the range is really 200. So you can see how your range gets eaten into. If you start with a range of 200 and charge to 80%, now you are at 160. And if you don’t want to go below 50, now you are at 110. Which isn’t great.

This is the part that concerns the heck out of me and pushed me to a non-PHEV hybrid. All of the max ranges seemed irrelevant marketing fluff. If I assumed I could only use 80% then my range was 200 or less.

Pp. I’m overly attentive to only charging to 80%, but most people just fully charge on a road trip and then the range would be 300 if you didn’t want to go below 50. I just want to drive mine forever so I want to always obey the 80 rule, but I think I’m an outlier. It did seem worrisome to me to have that range limit at first, but now I don’t give it a second thought. But I live in a town with a big city close by. If I was out in the sticks, maybe I would worry more.

An occasional full charge isn't going to be significant to the longevity of the battery.