New York Times Article about failing Hasidic Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to get involved or move. The trouble is, so few people actually vote or pay attention, its easy for fundamentalist groups -- or any group willing to do the work -- to come in and take over.

For about 5 years there have been groups of people in my town fighting the over building, the permits for dormitories (remember this is a semi-rural town now), the massive quantity of schools and duplexes and other high density housing, the blockbusting, the takeover of the school board, etc. Plenty of us were involved and it did absolutely nothing. I could fill a book with the horrible things that have been done to friends and neighbors in this town.

Anyone that says this is about what religion they are practicing is insulting all of us that have to uproot our lives or live with people that teach their kids to spit on other kids and yell "gentiles get out this is our town now", throw eggs at our homes, kill chickens by whipping them around by the neck and then throwing them into garbage cans to rot, some of them still alive (a protected religious ritual apparently), etc.

I couldn't give a shit what religion someone practices but these are just a few examples of things that have been done in my town. Not to mention the blockbusting. Over 25% of the residences in my town are now apparently owned by LLCs that are owned by Hasidic people, and they rent the homes out to multiple families at a time. Around the corner there are 4 families living in one home. It is part of the blockbusting tactic. They recently threatened that if their schools weren't approved (7 just on one road near me), then they would force the zoning board to allow the high density homes with 8 bedrooms that they have going up in another town. FYI we have one acre zoning here, and they are forcing our hand to either eliminate that or allow 7 schools on a residential semi-rural road that can in no way handle the capacity of 7 schools. Our quality of life will be nil.

There is a previously beautiful retirement village in my town that has been decimated as well. So many of the retired people that bought their homes and expected to live in peace there for the rest of their lives are moving because of these things listed, as well as the fact that the boards of these HOAs have been taken over as well and the by laws changed to where couples can no longer swim together because their religion prohibits men and women swimming together.

Again....I hope anyone reading that dares to insult me by saying this is about anti semitism thinks again and ponders whether they would even consider living in a town like this.

It is very sad for all of us. I have heard I would have to leave the state if I want my children to never have to deal with this in their lifetimes.

In case anyone hasn't guess yet, I live in NJ. Look up Lakewood, NJ. The largest Yeshiva in the world, including Israel is in Lakewood.

they followed ZERO covid restrictions and were taking buses back and forth to Brooklyn during even the height of the pandemic for weddings, funerals, etc.


It makes life very difficult to live around a group like this. I'd rather move next to the Amish. At least they don't take anything from the government. The Hasidic practically live off the government in many ways I won't go into.


Any denial of anything they want is met with a lawsuit claiming antisemitism. And they win.


If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are plenty of links in this thread about Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Ramapo, Lakewood, etc. I can't even enjoy my home anymore knowing I'm just gearing up to sell because I'm pretty much being forced to.

I know about Lakewood, but I'd never guessed it because... Lakewood was Hasidic even 25 years ago. I know, I visited some families there in the late 1990s. It's not a recent change.

Unfortunately, it's a feature of democracy - if a majority of people in your town want to live a certain way, your options are join or leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to get involved or move. The trouble is, so few people actually vote or pay attention, its easy for fundamentalist groups -- or any group willing to do the work -- to come in and take over.

For about 5 years there have been groups of people in my town fighting the over building, the permits for dormitories (remember this is a semi-rural town now), the massive quantity of schools and duplexes and other high density housing, the blockbusting, the takeover of the school board, etc. Plenty of us were involved and it did absolutely nothing. I could fill a book with the horrible things that have been done to friends and neighbors in this town.

Anyone that says this is about what religion they are practicing is insulting all of us that have to uproot our lives or live with people that teach their kids to spit on other kids and yell "gentiles get out this is our town now", throw eggs at our homes, kill chickens by whipping them around by the neck and then throwing them into garbage cans to rot, some of them still alive (a protected religious ritual apparently), etc.

I couldn't give a shit what religion someone practices but these are just a few examples of things that have been done in my town. Not to mention the blockbusting. Over 25% of the residences in my town are now apparently owned by LLCs that are owned by Hasidic people, and they rent the homes out to multiple families at a time. Around the corner there are 4 families living in one home. It is part of the blockbusting tactic. They recently threatened that if their schools weren't approved (7 just on one road near me), then they would force the zoning board to allow the high density homes with 8 bedrooms that they have going up in another town. FYI we have one acre zoning here, and they are forcing our hand to either eliminate that or allow 7 schools on a residential semi-rural road that can in no way handle the capacity of 7 schools. Our quality of life will be nil.

There is a previously beautiful retirement village in my town that has been decimated as well. So many of the retired people that bought their homes and expected to live in peace there for the rest of their lives are moving because of these things listed, as well as the fact that the boards of these HOAs have been taken over as well and the by laws changed to where couples can no longer swim together because their religion prohibits men and women swimming together.

Again....I hope anyone reading that dares to insult me by saying this is about anti semitism thinks again and ponders whether they would even consider living in a town like this.

It is very sad for all of us. I have heard I would have to leave the state if I want my children to never have to deal with this in their lifetimes.

In case anyone hasn't guess yet, I live in NJ. Look up Lakewood, NJ. The largest Yeshiva in the world, including Israel is in Lakewood.

they followed ZERO covid restrictions and were taking buses back and forth to Brooklyn during even the height of the pandemic for weddings, funerals, etc.


It makes life very difficult to live around a group like this. I'd rather move next to the Amish. At least they don't take anything from the government. The Hasidic practically live off the government in many ways I won't go into.


Any denial of anything they want is met with a lawsuit claiming antisemitism. And they win.


If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are plenty of links in this thread about Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Ramapo, Lakewood, etc. I can't even enjoy my home anymore knowing I'm just gearing up to sell because I'm pretty much being forced to.

I know about Lakewood, but I'd never guessed it because... Lakewood was Hasidic even 25 years ago. I know, I visited some families there in the late 1990s. It's not a recent change.

Unfortunately, it's a feature of democracy - if a majority of people in your town want to live a certain way, your options are join or leave.

Join lol!?!? No thanks we are leaving and can’t get out fast enough.

However it is NOT democracy because there is a LOT of illegal things going on that are actually affecting all taxpayers and I hope anyone involved will get their due at some point for all of our sakes because there is proof that there are thousands of people just in Lakewood alone that Do not have , nor do they want , enough education for I support themselves and we will all be paying to support them . There are videos I’ve seen of classes on how to game the system to get money so they can not work and just sit in a room all day studying and arguing about an ancient document . It’s bizarre that more people aren’t up in arms if you ask me.

I can’t get far enough away from ANY group of people that have their morals no matter what they call themselves

[Anonymous]

So I’m curious how were Ramapo or Lakewood chosen? Why those towns specifically? Wondering if you can anticipate towns that could come under this type of pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I’m curious how were Ramapo or Lakewood chosen? Why those towns specifically? Wondering if you can anticipate towns that could come under this type of pressure.

I think the story is different between the two. I don't know how Lakewood came to be, but I believe Ramapo is an outgrowth of a specific decision by a fraction of a specific sect to move out of Brooklyn where they can live as they want to and not be bothered by anyone. That settlement was Kiryas Joel. The area was not particularly desirable, not much economic opportunity => cheap land and zoning either allowed or overlooked high density housing, which was not common in the 1970s. Once the infrastructure was there, more and more people moved to the area, not even the same sect or Hasidim. Then someone figured out the political component and that people in the area did not particularly care about school board elections; the wealthier white homeowners were mostly older with no kids in the school system.

Actually, the story is not that different from how immigrant communities seem to appear out of nowhere, all the Little XYZs. The only difference is the political muscle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I’m curious how were Ramapo or Lakewood chosen? Why those towns specifically? Wondering if you can anticipate towns that could come under this type of pressure.

As far as Lakewood , believe it or not it is as a popular Jewish destination for people from New York City because it used to be a beautiful lake town with natural beauty and it’s relatively close to the shore. The Rockefellers owned an estate there .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to get involved or move. The trouble is, so few people actually vote or pay attention, its easy for fundamentalist groups -- or any group willing to do the work -- to come in and take over.

For about 5 years there have been groups of people in my town fighting the over building, the permits for dormitories (remember this is a semi-rural town now), the massive quantity of schools and duplexes and other high density housing, the blockbusting, the takeover of the school board, etc. Plenty of us were involved and it did absolutely nothing. I could fill a book with the horrible things that have been done to friends and neighbors in this town.

Anyone that says this is about what religion they are practicing is insulting all of us that have to uproot our lives or live with people that teach their kids to spit on other kids and yell "gentiles get out this is our town now", throw eggs at our homes, kill chickens by whipping them around by the neck and then throwing them into garbage cans to rot, some of them still alive (a protected religious ritual apparently), etc.

I couldn't give a shit what religion someone practices but these are just a few examples of things that have been done in my town. Not to mention the blockbusting. Over 25% of the residences in my town are now apparently owned by LLCs that are owned by Hasidic people, and they rent the homes out to multiple families at a time. Around the corner there are 4 families living in one home. It is part of the blockbusting tactic. They recently threatened that if their schools weren't approved (7 just on one road near me), then they would force the zoning board to allow the high density homes with 8 bedrooms that they have going up in another town. FYI we have one acre zoning here, and they are forcing our hand to either eliminate that or allow 7 schools on a residential semi-rural road that can in no way handle the capacity of 7 schools. Our quality of life will be nil.

There is a previously beautiful retirement village in my town that has been decimated as well. So many of the retired people that bought their homes and expected to live in peace there for the rest of their lives are moving because of these things listed, as well as the fact that the boards of these HOAs have been taken over as well and the by laws changed to where couples can no longer swim together because their religion prohibits men and women swimming together.

Again....I hope anyone reading that dares to insult me by saying this is about anti semitism thinks again and ponders whether they would even consider living in a town like this.

It is very sad for all of us. I have heard I would have to leave the state if I want my children to never have to deal with this in their lifetimes.

In case anyone hasn't guess yet, I live in NJ. Look up Lakewood, NJ. The largest Yeshiva in the world, including Israel is in Lakewood.

they followed ZERO covid restrictions and were taking buses back and forth to Brooklyn during even the height of the pandemic for weddings, funerals, etc.


It makes life very difficult to live around a group like this. I'd rather move next to the Amish. At least they don't take anything from the government. The Hasidic practically live off the government in many ways I won't go into.


Any denial of anything they want is met with a lawsuit claiming antisemitism. And they win.


If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are plenty of links in this thread about Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Ramapo, Lakewood, etc. I can't even enjoy my home anymore knowing I'm just gearing up to sell because I'm pretty much being forced to.

I’m sorry. I grew up in Rockland. I’ve seen the changes. My sister lives in our family home which is in one of the more affordable, closer-to-town areas of Clarkstown. The home purchases have started. It will go next, or possibly Nyack, now that land has been bought there too. I understand what’s happening where you live. I wish there was a clear way to resolve the conflict, but I don’t see it.

OP, I am so sorry. I graduated from Spring Valley HS back in the 90s before the Hasidim gained control of the school board. It still breaks my heart to see what happened there - I had a great education and loved the diversity that was present at the school. I am just thankful that my parents were able to sell their house about 8 years ago to a private school family and get out.

(And FYI to everyone, it's the East Ramapo school district that was impacted. Ramapo covers Suffern and is a different school system.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s what they want. There’s no way to change it except by persuasion. They may just be ignoring the testing, not failing.

It's what who wants? Several young men interviewed for the article and in another documentary I saw said it was definitely not what they wanted for themselves.

Their parents want it. The NYTimes article is full of stereotypes of Hassidic people, down to the deliberately unflattering photographs. We may disagree with the parent’s educational philosophy but that should be changed by persuasion and collaboration. OP frankly dislikes living in a community with Hasidic people. She’s going to have to adjust.

I don’t doubt that some Hasidic kids dislike their school but there are badly failing schools everywhere. HS in DC where 0% pass the tests.

stay on topic. This is about Hasidic failing schools not other ethnic or races of people.

funny how when black failing schools are talked about no one brings up white failing schools— when there are many.

white people don’t bring up majority white dialing school districts.

Again, this is about hasidic jewish children who are failing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 how do they get public education funding?

In the E Ramapo story, it was because the Hasidic community (who took over as majority on school board) slashed the budget for the school district to try to minimize costs of the district which would allow for more funds to be paid out for "special needs' students. They - apparently against state law - took the cost allocated to special needs kids in public schools and sent to their private religious schools. They also closed one of the public ES schools and sold it to their community to be used as a religious school.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/27/school-board-east-ramapo-public-school-funding-private-yeshivas

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2022/03/17/east-ramapo-payout-fund-aid-public-school-children-stem-programs/7048345001/

https://www.nyclu.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/20210914_nyclu_eramapo_report.pdf

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-a-ny-town-increasing-haredi-influence-turns-a-school-board-into-a-battleground/

Or you can listen to the bit by This American Life, which was quite detailed.

They also owned a lot of the “special needs” schools themselves and profit from each child that is sent there. There was a huge case in nj about this

That’s messed up. Why isn’t the state gov addressing this?

That’s the million dollar question. ACLU got involved and sued on behalf of disenfranchised black and Latino communities. As a result, state sent a rep/arbiter to sit on school board. But if you look at the school board makeup currently, Hasidic still hold majority seats. Only 3 are actual public school parents. Messed up

Aren’t there state regulations that put guardrails on local school boards? I just can’t wrap my head around the religious content with public funds

Welcome to NY. Locals have been dealing with this for decades. They’ve been shut down at every turn and regularly called anti-Semitic for their concerns.

+1

yep. im born and raised in nyc and know this all too well.

[Anonymous]

This is horrible. What is wrong with people?
Why do they get brainwashed so easily.
Anything extreme is usually a bad thing

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. Maybe the tide is turning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how to link an article, but recently there was an article about how 100 percent of the students at some of these Orthodox Hasidic Schools in NY failed standardized testing.

This is a subject I'm quite concerned about as this is affecting my school district directly although I am not in NY. Our town is in the midst of building at least 8 or 10 Orthodox schools (there are zero here now) and our local public school boards have all been taken over by the very same people building these religious schools. There are supposedly plans on the books for at least FIFTEEN more schools in our town over the course of the next decade. The economic devastation this will cause despite the fact that these children are not even receiving a basic education, is astounding. How is it allowed to continue?

I have no problem with people practicing their religion in any way they see fit, provided it doesn't harm others around them. When there is an entire population of children that is going to be unable to provide for themselves and their families, when they cannot read, do basic math, have been abused physically and emotionally apparently (according to the article), this will not only take a toll on the children themselves, but on the greater society to which we all belong.

I also have a huge problem with the tax dollars that are being used to support a school that isn't even providing education...which everyone should be opposed to on principle.

I cannot believe this post has been allowed to remain on the board this long. Is no one going to question the absurdity of the OP's allegation? Jews make up less than 3% of the US population, and Orthodox Jews make up less than 3% of that 3%. 15 schools?? And they have "taken over" the school board, which is elected? This is an antisemitic troll post. And the NYTimes article was a disgrace to the NYT, with little actual data and a lot of generalizations and false comparisons that presented a serious misrepresentation of facts.

[Anonymous]

This thread has degenerated into nothing but gleeful posting of negative stories that aren't even local, about isolated incidences in schools that are far away and not representative of Jewish education. This is just antisemitism under the guise of news. Disgusting. But typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to get involved or move. The trouble is, so few people actually vote or pay attention, its easy for fundamentalist groups -- or any group willing to do the work -- to come in and take over.

For about 5 years there have been groups of people in my town fighting the over building, the permits for dormitories (remember this is a semi-rural town now), the massive quantity of schools and duplexes and other high density housing, the blockbusting, the takeover of the school board, etc. Plenty of us were involved and it did absolutely nothing. I could fill a book with the horrible things that have been done to friends and neighbors in this town.

Anyone that says this is about what religion they are practicing is insulting all of us that have to uproot our lives or live with people that teach their kids to spit on other kids and yell "gentiles get out this is our town now", throw eggs at our homes, kill chickens by whipping them around by the neck and then throwing them into garbage cans to rot, some of them still alive (a protected religious ritual apparently), etc.

I couldn't give a shit what religion someone practices but these are just a few examples of things that have been done in my town. Not to mention the blockbusting. Over 25% of the residences in my town are now apparently owned by LLCs that are owned by Hasidic people, and they rent the homes out to multiple families at a time. Around the corner there are 4 families living in one home. It is part of the blockbusting tactic. They recently threatened that if their schools weren't approved (7 just on one road near me), then they would force the zoning board to allow the high density homes with 8 bedrooms that they have going up in another town. FYI we have one acre zoning here, and they are forcing our hand to either eliminate that or allow 7 schools on a residential semi-rural road that can in no way handle the capacity of 7 schools. Our quality of life will be nil.

There is a previously beautiful retirement village in my town that has been decimated as well. So many of the retired people that bought their homes and expected to live in peace there for the rest of their lives are moving because of these things listed, as well as the fact that the boards of these HOAs have been taken over as well and the by laws changed to where couples can no longer swim together because their religion prohibits men and women swimming together.

Again....I hope anyone reading that dares to insult me by saying this is about anti semitism thinks again and ponders whether they would even consider living in a town like this.

It is very sad for all of us. I have heard I would have to leave the state if I want my children to never have to deal with this in their lifetimes.

In case anyone hasn't guess yet, I live in NJ. Look up Lakewood, NJ. The largest Yeshiva in the world, including Israel is in Lakewood.

they followed ZERO covid restrictions and were taking buses back and forth to Brooklyn during even the height of the pandemic for weddings, funerals, etc.


It makes life very difficult to live around a group like this. I'd rather move next to the Amish. At least they don't take anything from the government. The Hasidic practically live off the government in many ways I won't go into.


Any denial of anything they want is met with a lawsuit claiming antisemitism. And they win.


If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are plenty of links in this thread about Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Ramapo, Lakewood, etc. I can't even enjoy my home anymore knowing I'm just gearing up to sell because I'm pretty much being forced to.

I know about Lakewood, but I'd never guessed it because... Lakewood was Hasidic even 25 years ago. I know, I visited some families there in the late 1990s. It's not a recent change.

Unfortunately, it's a feature of democracy - if a majority of people in your town want to live a certain way, your options are join or leave.

Join lol!?!? No thanks we are leaving and can’t get out fast enough.

However it is NOT democracy because there is a LOT of illegal things going on that are actually affecting all taxpayers and I hope anyone involved will get their due at some point for all of our sakes because there is proof that there are thousands of people just in Lakewood alone that Do not have , nor do they want , enough education for I support themselves and we will all be paying to support them . There are videos I’ve seen of classes on how to game the system to get money so they can not work and just sit in a room all day studying and arguing about an ancient document . It’s bizarre that more people aren’t up in arms if you ask me.

I can’t get far enough away from ANY group of people that have their morals no matter what they call themselves

So what is the community’s end goal for revenue? If no one is working because you driven all the taxpayers out of town, how will these schools operate? I thought one of the great things about NJ is the schools are funded at the local town level?