New York Times Article about failing Hasidic Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to get involved or move. The trouble is, so few people actually vote or pay attention, its easy for fundamentalist groups -- or any group willing to do the work -- to come in and take over.

Democracy means majority rule. If you are in the minority numerically, OP, you will have to move. That’s the lesson of the This American Life episode

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s what they want. There’s no way to change it except by persuasion. They may just be ignoring the testing, not failing.

It's what who wants? Several young men interviewed for the article and in another documentary I saw said it was definitely not what they wanted for themselves.

Their parents want it. The NYTimes article is full of stereotypes of Hassidic people, down to the deliberately unflattering photographs. We may disagree with the parent’s educational philosophy but that should be changed by persuasion and collaboration. OP frankly dislikes living in a community with Hasidic people. She’s going to have to adjust.

I don’t doubt that some Hasidic kids dislike their school but there are badly failing schools everywhere. HS in DC where 0% pass the tests.

[Anonymous]

I’m normally skeptical of the Examiner but this is a good analysis of the NYTimes piece showing how skewed it is:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-new-york-timess-botched-attack-on-jewish-schools

The attack on yeshivas has ALL the fingerprints of teachers unions all over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's heartbreaking. I feel really badly for the kids.

My mom's best friend was Orthodox. Her daughters all learned to read and write in English, and went on to have decent jobs outside the home (e.g., court clerk, nurse, paralegal). Her sons really struggled. One of them wanted to become an EMT but had a ton of trouble with the exam.

Orthodox is not the same as Hasidic. The Hasidim are all Orthodox but not all Orthodox Jews are Hasidim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That article was heartbreaking. The root of the problem seems to be that these communities use their power as a voting block to pressure politicians to cave to their demands. I was wondering if the Governor of NY could put the schools into receivership and turn the power of oversight to the New York State Department of Education. Since that body is not elected, they could make demands of the schools without the fear of losing their jobs. The fact that we are allowing young people to leave school without a working knowledge of English, the language of employment in the United States, is criminal. We have mandatory school attendance laws in the country because we have a shared belief that through education every citizen can gain the skills to become self-supporting. These schools are not fulfilling that important role.

It's more complicated. They are in NY and they vote democratic. Given how blue NY is, they are not that crucial to the mayor or the governor. Yes, maybe some city council member or state senator get sacked, but then they are entitled to representation, aren't they?

The problem is that they don't fit neatly into the popular narrative. It's not that they do not educate their boys, they teach them some pretty complicated stuff that has no connection to mainstream American life and is not taught in English. It's hard to crack down on that without starting on a slippery slope to something decidedly un-American. Unlike in some other countries, it's not considered acceptable here to say that everyone must speak English, or everyone must be employable or self-supporting.

The girls, btw, are doing better because they are not considered worthy to learn the hard stuff, so they study math and English. According to that article, the girls perform about the same as the low income kids from public schools, which makes sense. Also I am pretty sure they had zero prep for those tests, although even low income public schools do some.

Agree with everything here except one point,, which is their voting tendencies. Although other Jews vote blue, this community actually leans red and theur voting patterns actually most closely mirror those of Mormons.

https://www.city-journal.org/new-study-charts-political-shifts-among-american-jews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 schools? For how many children? Where do they go to school now?

They are currently bussed to a nearby town but the population is exploding and they need separate schools for boys and girls and also the schools are not large ones like some public schools are. they are expanding into this town and need schools here . Look up what happened in Ramapo school district. The same thing is happening here now .

It is unsustainable, especially when you consider very few of the students using these funds and schools will be able to (or even try to ) support themselves, their families . It is a crisis in my opinion.

NP. That makes more sense, the students exist. But if the students fail all the standardized tests, the schools will lose accreditation and funding.

No, they won’t. That’s the point!! They have the politicians in their pockets. They keep the funding and do not educate the children to state standards. It’s been happening for decades. Check out yaffed.org. Naftuli Moster is a member of the Hasidic community who started that organization at great personal sacrifice. He and his family have been ostracized because of his work to shine a light on this problem. It’s an amazing turn for the NYT to write about this in-depth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That article was heartbreaking. The root of the problem seems to be that these communities use their power as a voting block to pressure politicians to cave to their demands. I was wondering if the Governor of NY could put the schools into receivership and turn the power of oversight to the New York State Department of Education. Since that body is not elected, they could make demands of the schools without the fear of losing their jobs. The fact that we are allowing young people to leave school without a working knowledge of English, the language of employment in the United States, is criminal. We have mandatory school attendance laws in the country because we have a shared belief that through education every citizen can gain the skills to become self-supporting. These schools are not fulfilling that important role.

It's more complicated. They are in NY and they vote democratic. Given how blue NY is, they are not that crucial to the mayor or the governor. Yes, maybe some city council member or state senator get sacked, but then they are entitled to representation, aren't they?

The problem is that they don't fit neatly into the popular narrative. It's not that they do not educate their boys, they teach them some pretty complicated stuff that has no connection to mainstream American life and is not taught in English. It's hard to crack down on that without starting on a slippery slope to something decidedly un-American. Unlike in some other countries, it's not considered acceptable here to say that everyone must speak English, or everyone must be employable or self-supporting.

The girls, btw, are doing better because they are not considered worthy to learn the hard stuff, so they study math and English. According to that article, the girls perform about the same as the low income kids from public schools, which makes sense. Also I am pretty sure they had zero prep for those tests, although even low income public schools do some.

Agree with everything here except one point,, which is their voting tendencies. Although other Jews vote blue, this community actually leans red and theur voting patterns actually most closely mirror those of Mormons.

https://www.city-journal.org/new-study-charts-political-shifts-among-american-jews

They vote as they are told. They control local politics and vote for people who will support them, red or blue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how to link an article, but recently there was an article about how 100 percent of the students at some of these Orthodox Hasidic Schools in NY failed standardized testing.

This is a subject I'm quite concerned about as this is affecting my school district directly although I am not in NY. Our town is in the midst of building at least 8 or 10 Orthodox schools (there are zero here now) and our local public school boards have all been taken over by the very same people building these religious schools. There are supposedly plans on the books for at least FIFTEEN more schools in our town over the course of the next decade. The economic devastation this will cause despite the fact that these children are not even receiving a basic education, is astounding. How is it allowed to continue?

I have no problem with people practicing their religion in any way they see fit, provided it doesn't harm others around them. When there is an entire population of children that is going to be unable to provide for themselves and their families, when they cannot read, do basic math, have been abused physically and emotionally apparently (according to the article), this will not only take a toll on the children themselves, but on the greater society to which we all belong.

I also have a huge problem with the tax dollars that are being used to support a school that isn't even providing education...which everyone should be opposed to on principle.

if you have kids in public schools, I would move now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That article was heartbreaking. The root of the problem seems to be that these communities use their power as a voting block to pressure politicians to cave to their demands. I was wondering if the Governor of NY could put the schools into receivership and turn the power of oversight to the New York State Department of Education. Since that body is not elected, they could make demands of the schools without the fear of losing their jobs. The fact that we are allowing young people to leave school without a working knowledge of English, the language of employment in the United States, is criminal. We have mandatory school attendance laws in the country because we have a shared belief that through education every citizen can gain the skills to become self-supporting. These schools are not fulfilling that important role.

It's more complicated. They are in NY and they vote democratic. Given how blue NY is, they are not that crucial to the mayor or the governor. Yes, maybe some city council member or state senator get sacked, but then they are entitled to representation, aren't they?

The problem is that they don't fit neatly into the popular narrative. It's not that they do not educate their boys, they teach them some pretty complicated stuff that has no connection to mainstream American life and is not taught in English. It's hard to crack down on that without starting on a slippery slope to something decidedly un-American. Unlike in some other countries, it's not considered acceptable here to say that everyone must speak English, or everyone must be employable or self-supporting.

The girls, btw, are doing better because they are not considered worthy to learn the hard stuff, so they study math and English. According to that article, the girls perform about the same as the low income kids from public schools, which makes sense. Also I am pretty sure they had zero prep for those tests, although even low income public schools do some.

Agree with everything here except one point,, which is their voting tendencies. Although other Jews vote blue, this community actually leans red and theur voting patterns actually most closely mirror those of Mormons.

https://www.city-journal.org/new-study-charts-political-shifts-among-american-jews

They vote as they are told. They control local politics and vote for people who will support them, red or blue.

To clarify, I’m referring specifically to the Hasidic community. This is not about American Jews. This is about a specific group that does not educate their children and controls politicians to continue to get funding for schools that do not meet basic standards.

[Anonymous]

Sorry didn't read the article but does everyone just depend on tax dollars to support their families when they become adults?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry didn't read the article but does everyone just depend on tax dollars to support their families when they become adults?

Large numbers, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s an episode of This American Life that covers some of what happened in a suburban district in NY that I happened to grow up near. It’s not pretty and honestly this doesn’t bode well for your community.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/534/a-not-so-simple-majority

This is so incredibly disturbing and dangerous for the public school districts.

OP, if I were you, I’d move. Religious extremists are insane, and the government has failed to force common sense regulations on these communities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s an episode of This American Life that covers some of what happened in a suburban district in NY that I happened to grow up near. It’s not pretty and honestly this doesn’t bode well for your community.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/534/a-not-so-simple-majority

I listened to this story. It is so infuriating and made me shake with anger. The Hasidic community in East Ramapo are monsters. They forcefully took over the public school board (with none of their kids in public school), destroyed the districts budget, killed the schools' extracurricular programs, sports, honors and arts, slashed teacher and admin numbers, forced students to take double lunch and study hall so that they had NO classes during the day which would make it impossible to graduate in 4 years, and shut a fully enrolled elementary school so that they could sell the building to the Hasidic community to convert to a yeshivas. All this so that they could funnel public schools funds to their religious schools and avoid paying taxes. I'm seething with rage.

OP, I am so so sorry. I would be livid if I knew that this was coming to my community. I don't have any advice for you. Just sympathy

[Anonymous]

How is this happening? Are they charters or something? So why aren’t there publicly funded southern Baptist schools in Alabama? (These are genuine questions, not snark!)

[Anonymous]

+1 how do they get public education funding?