New York Times Article about failing Hasidic Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever wonder why there is no real antisemitism in Japan, China or Korea?

Because one doesn't develop negative feelings toward a group until one is constantly exposed to them.

Why are any Jews defending these awful "schools?" Quick to squawk "anti-semite" at anyone who criticizes the schools, but the education is objectively atrocious. And the same people who defend these schools are the first to blast Christian homeschoolers for not being in lock-step with public schools. Christian homeschool publishers have algebra books. Some of these Hasidic kids can barely add!

💯

How do you know they are the same people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has degenerated into nothing but gleeful posting of negative stories that aren't even local, about isolated incidences in schools that are far away and not representative of Jewish education. This is just antisemitism under the guise of news. Disgusting. But typical.

I'll bite. America is not a religious theocracy and no group gets to set up a parallel existence that runs counter to the secular values and ideals of the country . If that's anti semitic, sign me up. Someone shared a twitter link upthread about these groups admitting to illegally funneling federal funding into their nonsense. I guess calling that out is anti semitic, whatever the hell that means .

It's the part where people started complaining about how Jews were moving in and taking over their neighborhood and oh my god they were going to have to move. That part. Don't f***ing gaslight us.

I’m Jewish and Orthodox Jews are cultist extremist. I’d say it’s antisemitic to consider them Jewish.

[Anonymous]

As a New Yorker, I’ve seen what happens to communities that are taken over by the Hasidim. I’m sorry, OP, but PPs are not exaggerating when they say you need to get out now, before the Hasidim fully move in and your property value plummets.

[Anonymous]

I imagine the people yelling about antisemitism don’t know much about the Hasidic community. They’re really, truly awful. I have no problem with Jewish people, but they are really more of a cult. I see Hasidic:Jewish as something like Westboro Church:Christians or ISIS:Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has degenerated into nothing but gleeful posting of negative stories that aren't even local, about isolated incidences in schools that are far away and not representative of Jewish education. This is just antisemitism under the guise of news. Disgusting. But typical.

I'll bite. America is not a religious theocracy and no group gets to set up a parallel existence that runs counter to the secular values and ideals of the country . If that's anti semitic, sign me up. Someone shared a twitter link upthread about these groups admitting to illegally funneling federal funding into their nonsense. I guess calling that out is anti semitic, whatever the hell that means .

It's the part where people started complaining about how Jews were moving in and taking over their neighborhood and oh my god they were going to have to move. That part. Don't f***ing gaslight us.

I’m Jewish and Orthodox Jews are cultist extremist. I’d say it’s antisemitic to consider them Jewish.

There are several kinds of Orthodox Judaism. You re ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I imagine the people yelling about antisemitism don’t know much about the Hasidic community. They’re really, truly awful. I have no problem with Jewish people, but they are really more of a cult. I see Hasidic:Jewish as something like Westboro Church:Christians or ISIS:Muslims.

Stop stereotyping.

WBC isn't even a cult. It's one dude and his kids and grandkids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has degenerated into nothing but gleeful posting of negative stories that aren't even local, about isolated incidences in schools that are far away and not representative of Jewish education. This is just antisemitism under the guise of news. Disgusting. But typical.

I'll bite. America is not a religious theocracy and no group gets to set up a parallel existence that runs counter to the secular values and ideals of the country . If that's anti semitic, sign me up. Someone shared a twitter link upthread about these groups admitting to illegally funneling federal funding into their nonsense. I guess calling that out is anti semitic, whatever the hell that means .

USA is NOT secular! France is secular. USA is *diverse*.

"USA is diverse" doesn't mean your schools can refuse to teach kids read and write English.

And not even the politicians the Hasidics suck up to can keep that racket going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That article was heartbreaking. The root of the problem seems to be that these communities use their power as a voting block to pressure politicians to cave to their demands. I was wondering if the Governor of NY could put the schools into receivership and turn the power of oversight to the New York State Department of Education. Since that body is not elected, they could make demands of the schools without the fear of losing their jobs. The fact that we are allowing young people to leave school without a working knowledge of English, the language of employment in the United States, is criminal. We have mandatory school attendance laws in the country because we have a shared belief that through education every citizen can gain the skills to become self-supporting. These schools are not fulfilling that important role.

It's more complicated. They are in NY and they vote democratic. Given how blue NY is, they are not that crucial to the mayor or the governor. Yes, maybe some city council member or state senator get sacked, but then they are entitled to representation, aren't they?

The problem is that they don't fit neatly into the popular narrative. It's not that they do not educate their boys, they teach them some pretty complicated stuff that has no connection to mainstream American life and is not taught in English. It's hard to crack down on that without starting on a slippery slope to something decidedly un-American. Unlike in some other countries, it's not considered acceptable here to say that everyone must speak English, or everyone must be employable or self-supporting.

The girls, btw, are doing better because they are not considered worthy to learn the hard stuff, so they study math and English. According to that article, the girls perform about the same as the low income kids from public schools, which makes sense. Also I am pretty sure they had zero prep for those tests, although even low income public schools do some.

They vote for and support Trump. It’s odd that they don’t want their children to be part of the outside world but are in the middle of New York City. And they hate when women walk down “their streets” in revealing clothes. It’s a unique part of NYC.

What are you claiming that they are teaching the boys that’s so complicated?

The boys were required to take the standardized tests because of the hundreds of millions of dollars the government gives their schools. 100% failed.

The girls did not do better than students from low income neighborhoods or English as a one second language. 80% failed.

The girls are meant to get married as soon as possible in mostly arranged marriages and start having multiple babies.

More than half of New York Hasidic Jews get Welfare and Section 8 housing, the single largest group by race or ethnicity.

This info has been around for years. Some top leaders of the Hasidic group own some of the buildings. They were caught refusing to rent to Blacks and pushing out non Hasidic Section 8 families out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 how do they get public education funding?

In the E Ramapo story, it was because the Hasidic community (who took over as majority on school board) slashed the budget for the school district to try to minimize costs of the district which would allow for more funds to be paid out for "special needs' students. They - apparently against state law - took the cost allocated to special needs kids in public schools and sent to their private religious schools. They also closed one of the public ES schools and sold it to their community to be used as a religious school.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/27/school-board-east-ramapo-public-school-funding-private-yeshivas

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2022/03/17/east-ramapo-payout-fund-aid-public-school-children-stem-programs/7048345001/

https://www.nyclu.org/sites/default/files/field_documents/20210914_nyclu_eramapo_report.pdf

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-a-ny-town-increasing-haredi-influence-turns-a-school-board-into-a-battleground/

Or you can listen to the bit by This American Life, which was quite detailed.

They also owned a lot of the “special needs” schools themselves and profit from each child that is sent there. There was a huge case in nj about this

That’s messed up. Why isn’t the state gov addressing this?

That’s the million dollar question. ACLU got involved and sued on behalf of disenfranchised black and Latino communities. As a result, state sent a rep/arbiter to sit on school board. But if you look at the school board makeup currently, Hasidic still hold majority seats. Only 3 are actual public school parents. Messed up

Hasidim, please. Hasidic is the adjective, Hasid/Hasidim (plural) the noun.

And yeah, the scope of this may be news but the background isn't. NYT runs articles every few years about early 20s folks who leave the community and find themselves virtually unemployable or unable to pursue higher education because of they receive virtually no science or English instruction. It's not that they aren't educated -- they are highly educated. In Yiddish, in Torah, in Talmud, in subjects that are valued in the community but not in the rest of the country and don't contribute to holding down a job and supporting a family.

If they are breaking the law, hopefully they will be prosecuted. If they are funneling public funds to religious charter schools and the like, well, I don't agree with that but our Supreme Court does - at least for Christian schools - so let's see where that goes ...

They’ve been breaking laws for years. Employees at Talmudical Academy in Brooklyn pleaded guilty in federal court to stealing $3.2 million that the state Health Department paid to feed needy kids. This school also pleaded guilty for tax and benefit fraud. The school would scam the government claiming their employees were paid much lower than they were so they could qualify for welfare and pay less in taxes.

They set up no show jobs for relatives and close friends, just like the mob!

Those are a few examples. Too many tax exemptions for religions. I don’t trust any of them.

[Anonymous]

Why is anyone defending these people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone defending these people?

They’re Jewish

Jews are the chosen people in the west so unless you someone is totally indefensible (Epstein/Weinstein) you can’t criticize them.

See what happened to praMila jayapal just the couple of days ago that was unrelated to this topic.

[Anonymous]

What are you claiming that they are teaching the boys that’s so complicated?

The Talmud and other religious texts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That article was heartbreaking. The root of the problem seems to be that these communities use their power as a voting block to pressure politicians to cave to their demands. I was wondering if the Governor of NY could put the schools into receivership and turn the power of oversight to the New York State Department of Education. Since that body is not elected, they could make demands of the schools without the fear of losing their jobs. The fact that we are allowing young people to leave school without a working knowledge of English, the language of employment in the United States, is criminal. We have mandatory school attendance laws in the country because we have a shared belief that through education every citizen can gain the skills to become self-supporting. These schools are not fulfilling that important role.

It's more complicated. They are in NY and they vote democratic. Given how blue NY is, they are not that crucial to the mayor or the governor. Yes, maybe some city council member or state senator get sacked, but then they are entitled to representation, aren't they?

The problem is that they don't fit neatly into the popular narrative. It's not that they do not educate their boys, they teach them some pretty complicated stuff that has no connection to mainstream American life and is not taught in English. It's hard to crack down on that without starting on a slippery slope to something decidedly un-American. Unlike in some other countries, it's not considered acceptable here to say that everyone must speak English, or everyone must be employable or self-supporting.

The girls, btw, are doing better because they are not considered worthy to learn the hard stuff, so they study math and English. According to that article, the girls perform about the same as the low income kids from public schools, which makes sense. Also I am pretty sure they had zero prep for those tests, although even low income public schools do some.

They vote for and support Trump. It’s odd that they don’t want their children to be part of the outside world but are in the middle of New York City. And they hate when women walk down “their streets” in revealing clothes. It’s a unique part of NYC.

What are you claiming that they are teaching the boys that’s so complicated?

The boys were required to take the standardized tests because of the hundreds of millions of dollars the government gives their schools. 100% failed.

The girls did not do better than students from low income neighborhoods or English as a one second language. 80% failed.

The girls are meant to get married as soon as possible in mostly arranged marriages and start having multiple babies.

More than half of New York Hasidic Jews get Welfare and Section 8 housing, the single largest group by race or ethnicity.

This info has been around for years. Some top leaders of the Hasidic group own some of the buildings. They were caught refusing to rent to Blacks and pushing out non Hasidic Section 8 families out.

Reading comprehension, for one. Go re-read what I wrote about the girls' test results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how to link an article, but recently there was an article about how 100 percent of the students at some of these Orthodox Hasidic Schools in NY failed standardized testing.

This is a subject I'm quite concerned about as this is affecting my school district directly although I am not in NY. Our town is in the midst of building at least 8 or 10 Orthodox schools (there are zero here now) and our local public school boards have all been taken over by the very same people building these religious schools. There are supposedly plans on the books for at least FIFTEEN more schools in our town over the course of the next decade. The economic devastation this will cause despite the fact that these children are not even receiving a basic education, is astounding. How is it allowed to continue?

I have no problem with people practicing their religion in any way they see fit, provided it doesn't harm others around them. When there is an entire population of children that is going to be unable to provide for themselves and their families, when they cannot read, do basic math, have been abused physically and emotionally apparently (according to the article), this will not only take a toll on the children themselves, but on the greater society to which we all belong.

I also have a huge problem with the tax dollars that are being used to support a school that isn't even providing education...which everyone should be opposed to on principle.

I cannot believe this post has been allowed to remain on the board this long. Is no one going to question the absurdity of the OP's allegation? Jews make up less than 3% of the US population, and Orthodox Jews make up less than 3% of that 3%. 15 schools?? And they have "taken over" the school board, which is elected? This is an antisemitic troll post. And the NYTimes article was a disgrace to the NYT, with little actual data and a lot of generalizations and false comparisons that presented a serious misrepresentation of facts.

10% of US Jews are Orthodox, which makes for about a million Orthodox Jews in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how to link an article, but recently there was an article about how 100 percent of the students at some of these Orthodox Hasidic Schools in NY failed standardized testing.

This is a subject I'm quite concerned about as this is affecting my school district directly although I am not in NY. Our town is in the midst of building at least 8 or 10 Orthodox schools (there are zero here now) and our local public school boards have all been taken over by the very same people building these religious schools. There are supposedly plans on the books for at least FIFTEEN more schools in our town over the course of the next decade. The economic devastation this will cause despite the fact that these children are not even receiving a basic education, is astounding. How is it allowed to continue?

I have no problem with people practicing their religion in any way they see fit, provided it doesn't harm others around them. When there is an entire population of children that is going to be unable to provide for themselves and their families, when they cannot read, do basic math, have been abused physically and emotionally apparently (according to the article), this will not only take a toll on the children themselves, but on the greater society to which we all belong.

I also have a huge problem with the tax dollars that are being used to support a school that isn't even providing education...which everyone should be opposed to on principle.

I cannot believe this post has been allowed to remain on the board this long. Is no one going to question the absurdity of the OP's allegation? Jews make up less than 3% of the US population, and Orthodox Jews make up less than 3% of that 3%. 15 schools?? And they have "taken over" the school board, which is elected? This is an antisemitic troll post. And the NYTimes article was a disgrace to the NYT, with little actual data and a lot of generalizations and false comparisons that presented a serious misrepresentation of facts.

10% of US Jews are Orthodox, which makes for about a million Orthodox Jews in the US.

1 million is a high estimate, but let's say 1 million Vs 299 million people who are not Orthodox Jews