Daycare Covid policy vent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being pretty unrealistic in their expectations here. People have been screaming for a year for daycares to loosen their testing and exclusion policies so kids don’t have to be out of daycare as much, but the obvious consequence of that loosening was going to be that more potential outbreaks would arise that would require sudden responses like this. The options are either strict testing and exclusion policies (e.g., every symptom requires a full 10 day exclusion or a negative PCR at least five days after onset of symptoms (with exclusion in the meantime) to minimize the risk of outbreaks, or we have looser policies where kids can return with nothing but a negative at-home rapid once they are symptom free, and accept the risk of more potential outbreaks that necessitate sudden/unexpected disruptions where there is evidence of an outbreak. This isn’t 2019 people, we can’t pretend covid simply doesn’t exist and expect that won’t have consequences.

As for the last minute notice, for all we know that’s when the daycare management learned of the issue. Do you really think the better solution would be to let potentially contagious kids come into the daycare for a day or two until they can get a PCR and turn music hour into a superspreader event in the meantime?

Your obsession with PCRs is not justified by the science of COVID and COVID tests. If you can't do multiple PCR tests over several days they are not going to do much to prevent outbreaks. A child can test negative one day and positive the next, but nobody is doing PCRs two days in row.

Did you actually read my post, or did you just see “PCR” and post a knee jerk response based on what you expected me to say?

Yes, I read your post. Do you remember what you wrote? You indicated that the daycare requiring a PCR test (no idea how many days of exposure) can prevent a "superspreader" event.

What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

Moreover, the broader point still stands. Daycares are engaged in a balancing act between reducing the odds of an outbreak without needlessly regularly excluding children. There is no perfect middle ground where you can avoid all unnecessary exclusion and avoid all risk of an outbreak, so necessarily a daycare will lean more in one direction. Either way you are assuming risk, it’s just which risk you would rather accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, at this point we need to be having the "who cares" conversation if someone gets COVID. Daycare populations = usually toddlers and young women. These are not high-risk populations generally, and if you as an individual teacher or child are high-risk, then you personally should not work at or attend a daycare. The onus should be on individuals to get as fully vaccinated and boosted as possible (including toddlers, who can now be vaccinated) and then if someone gets COVID, treat it like the flu.

No there are a lot of older women as well and pregnant women so not everyone is low risk.

Yes if I find out Sunday night daycare suddenly required PCR instead of rapid tests would be annoyed since it would likely mean missing a day of work. (Another single mom here.) OTH if it was a response to an evolving situation I would also get the lack of notice even if I was annoyed about it.

Then those individuals can either find another job (nanny for example) with lower exposure or choose to wear a high-quality mask. My child's daycare has strict policies but I never see staff wearing N95, KN95 masks. Yes they are totally annoying to wear all day (my relatives work in healthcare and wear them 12h at a time). But if you are worried about your risk as an adult htere are steps you can take

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being pretty unrealistic in their expectations here. People have been screaming for a year for daycares to loosen their testing and exclusion policies so kids don’t have to be out of daycare as much, but the obvious consequence of that loosening was going to be that more potential outbreaks would arise that would require sudden responses like this. The options are either strict testing and exclusion policies (e.g., every symptom requires a full 10 day exclusion or a negative PCR at least five days after onset of symptoms (with exclusion in the meantime) to minimize the risk of outbreaks, or we have looser policies where kids can return with nothing but a negative at-home rapid once they are symptom free, and accept the risk of more potential outbreaks that necessitate sudden/unexpected disruptions where there is evidence of an outbreak. This isn’t 2019 people, we can’t pretend covid simply doesn’t exist and expect that won’t have consequences.

As for the last minute notice, for all we know that’s when the daycare management learned of the issue. Do you really think the better solution would be to let potentially contagious kids come into the daycare for a day or two until they can get a PCR and turn music hour into a superspreader event in the meantime?

Your obsession with PCRs is not justified by the science of COVID and COVID tests. If you can't do multiple PCR tests over several days they are not going to do much to prevent outbreaks. A child can test negative one day and positive the next, but nobody is doing PCRs two days in row.

Did you actually read my post, or did you just see “PCR” and post a knee jerk response based on what you expected me to say?

Yes, I read your post. Do you remember what you wrote? You indicated that the daycare requiring a PCR test (no idea how many days of exposure) can prevent a "superspreader" event.

What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

Moreover, the broader point still stands. Daycares are engaged in a balancing act between reducing the odds of an outbreak without needlessly regularly excluding children. There is no perfect middle ground where you can avoid all unnecessary exclusion and avoid all risk of an outbreak, so necessarily a daycare will lean more in one direction. Either way you are assuming risk, it’s just which risk you would rather accept.

You said "Do you really think the better solution would be to let potentially contagious kids come into the daycare for a day or two until they can get a PCR and turn music hour into a superspreader event in the meantime?"

If the daycare received notice on Sunday of a positive COVID case, it sounds like the exposure would have been on Friday. The first day to do a PCR test accurately would be Wednesday. So telling parents to run out and get a PCR test on Monday is a waste of parents' time and health care system resources.

[Anonymous]

Btw rapid tests are very good if you are symptomatic and repeat the test for several days. What is happening is that the daycare is assuming:
1. Any child that was sick last week had COVID because one family reported a positive case
2. The best way to prevent further spread is to effectively force kids that have recovered to stay home at least one more day

Both of these assumptions are dumb and do little to protect anyone. There are other things besides COVID going around. The more you force parents to keep kids home, the less able they are to keep kids home when symptoms first emerge, which is when they are most contagious. If you assume OP's child had COVID, which is a big assumption, then they are likely less infectious than the kids that got directly exposed on Friday and will start to show symptoms in the middle of this week. The awesome thing is that OP's child will return to care in Tuesday, catch COVID from these infectious kids and then OP will be out of work for almost a month. This is not sustainable. Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

A 10-day exclusion is not the current CDC guidance. Current guidance as of August states you don’t have to stay home after exposure if you don’t develop symptoms. It recommends testing 6 days after a known exposure, and you can end your isolation with a negative test. Even if the child had tested positive, which OP’s didn’t, CDC says isolation can end “after day 5 if you are fever free for 24 hours”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

A 10-day exclusion is not the current CDC guidance. Current guidance as of August states you don’t have to stay home after exposure if you don’t develop symptoms. It recommends testing 6 days after a known exposure, and you can end your isolation with a negative test. Even if the child had tested positive, which OP’s didn’t, CDC says isolation can end “after day 5 if you are fever free for 24 hours”.

If I’m not mistaken that is guidance with masking. Many daycare‘s don’t mask and that is where the 10 days come in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

A 10-day exclusion is not the current CDC guidance. Current guidance as of August states you don’t have to stay home after exposure if you don’t develop symptoms. It recommends testing 6 days after a known exposure, and you can end your isolation with a negative test. Even if the child had tested positive, which OP’s didn’t, CDC says isolation can end “after day 5 if you are fever free for 24 hours”.

If I’m not mistaken that is guidance with masking. Many daycare‘s don’t mask and that is where the 10 days come in.

Not anymore. “If you have access to antigen tests, you should consider using them. With two sequential negative tests 48 hours apart, you may remove your mask sooner than day 10.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/isolation.html

Antigen tests are home rapid tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

A 10-day exclusion is not the current CDC guidance. Current guidance as of August states you don’t have to stay home after exposure if you don’t develop symptoms. It recommends testing 6 days after a known exposure, and you can end your isolation with a negative test. Even if the child had tested positive, which OP’s didn’t, CDC says isolation can end “after day 5 if you are fever free for 24 hours”.

If I’m not mistaken that is guidance with masking. Many daycare‘s don’t mask and that is where the 10 days come in.

Not anymore. “If you have access to antigen tests, you should consider using them. With two sequential negative tests 48 hours apart, you may remove your mask sooner than day 10.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/isolation.html

Antigen tests are home rapid tests.

Thanks. That’s good for me to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely right to be livid. I’m super pissed for you. Who is going to have a PCR in the morning? I’d show up with my kid and demand they take them. Bring a rapid test and do it right there.

People who thought ahead instead of tantruming on DCUM and booked an early morning PCR test at an urgent care where they can get the test results right away.

Doesn’t matter how early this morning you booked a PCR, you don’t get the results back for at least a day.

There are urgent cares that do same-day onsite PCR testing. Results usually take about 2 hours.

Sorry, but not everyone has the money to pay for the rush turnaround. Everywhere I’ve tried, it’s been $200+.

Ours is covered by insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely right to be livid. I’m super pissed for you. Who is going to have a PCR in the morning? I’d show up with my kid and demand they take them. Bring a rapid test and do it right there.

People who thought ahead instead of tantruming on DCUM and booked an early morning PCR test at an urgent care where they can get the test results right away.

Doesn’t matter how early this morning you booked a PCR, you don’t get the results back for at least a day.

There are urgent cares that do same-day onsite PCR testing. Results usually take about 2 hours.

Sorry, but not everyone has the money to pay for the rush turnaround. Everywhere I’ve tried, it’s been $200+.

Ours is covered by insurance.

Where are you getting rush PCRs where insurance pays for the rush fee? At Sameday Testing insurance will pay for the test itself, but you still need to pay cash to get the results back next day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, are they in a 2021 time loop? PCR tests are rarely recmended these days with good reason. Sounds like they want to keep numbers down today for some reason. Totally disrespectful and unprofessional.

You are totally wrong that PCR tests are not recommended! You are part of the denial loop. People who gave up about Covid are not bothering to test which is keeping this virus rampant.

The at home tests do not pick up the strain of Covid early. No entity should accept an at home test for proof of a negative.

The day care was wrong for failing to timely notify you.

You can say this until you are blue in the face, but below is a link to Kaiser Permanente's guide for when to get a PCR test. If you're too lazy to click on the link (my guess is you are), it basically says don't bother with a PCR unless your doctor tells you you need one, or it's being required for an event or activity.


https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/content/dam/kporg/covid-19/testing/choose-the-right-covid-test-flier-ada-co-mas-nw-hi-en-2022-9.pdf

Thanks for linking that - the last time I was on Kaiser's website looking at test guidelines (within the last month or two), they still recommended PCRs if your home antigen test was negative, and you had symptoms. I see the PPs point about PCRs still maybe being too early, and how it would be difficult to get multiple days worth of PCRs without using a lot of resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely right to be livid. I’m super pissed for you. Who is going to have a PCR in the morning? I’d show up with my kid and demand they take them. Bring a rapid test and do it right there.

People who thought ahead instead of tantruming on DCUM and booked an early morning PCR test at an urgent care where they can get the test results right away.

Doesn’t matter how early this morning you booked a PCR, you don’t get the results back for at least a day.

There are urgent cares that do same-day onsite PCR testing. Results usually take about 2 hours.

Sorry, but not everyone has the money to pay for the rush turnaround. Everywhere I’ve tried, it’s been $200+.

Ours is covered by insurance.

Where are you getting rush PCRs where insurance pays for the rush fee? At Sameday Testing insurance will pay for the test itself, but you still need to pay cash to get the results back next day.

We went to an urgent care in Burtonsville that offers same-day results for samples submitted before 4 pm. We didn’t have to pay anything extra.

[Anonymous]

OP here - we got the updated COVID policy from daycare today. Our rules include:

- everyone over 2 wears a mask, regardless of vaccination status
- no parents in the building, and no line allowed outside the building. Parents must wait in their car if another parent is at the door for pickup/drop off
- kids can’t come to school if they, or anyone else in the family, has one or more of these symptoms: fever, coughing, runny or stuffy nose, difficulty breathing, headache, stomach pain, diarrhea, or vomit
- if the kid has the above symptoms, they need a PCR to come back
- if we go out of town, the entire family needs to take rapid tests before the kid can come back
- we have to notify the daycare of a positive COVID case in the house (definitely reasonable)
- we have to notify the daycare if anyone in the house was exposed to COVID, regardless of test results

This is not what we agreed to when we enrolled. We’re going to start looking for a new daycare… unless this is just normal in the DMV?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - we got the updated COVID policy from daycare today. Our rules include:

- everyone over 2 wears a mask, regardless of vaccination status
- no parents in the building, and no line allowed outside the building. Parents must wait in their car if another parent is at the door for pickup/drop off
- kids can’t come to school if they, or anyone else in the family, has one or more of these symptoms: fever, coughing, runny or stuffy nose, difficulty breathing, headache, stomach pain, diarrhea, or vomit
- if the kid has the above symptoms, they need a PCR to come back
- if we go out of town, the entire family needs to take rapid tests before the kid can come back
- we have to notify the daycare of a positive COVID case in the house (definitely reasonable)
- we have to notify the daycare if anyone in the house was exposed to COVID, regardless of test results

This is not what we agreed to when we enrolled. We’re going to start looking for a new daycare… unless this is just normal in the DMV?

This is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What I said was that requiring a PCR for a previously-symptomatic child to return to daycare before a full 10-day exclusion could help prevent a superspreader event. That is in line with CDC guidance and that of other medical professionals. I did not say that would be the only policy put into place to prevent superspreader events.

A 10-day exclusion is not the current CDC guidance. Current guidance as of August states you don’t have to stay home after exposure if you don’t develop symptoms. It recommends testing 6 days after a known exposure, and you can end your isolation with a negative test. Even if the child had tested positive, which OP’s didn’t, CDC says isolation can end “after day 5 if you are fever free for 24 hours”.

If they can mask consistently. If they can't, because they are under 2, or are in a program that includes nap or meals, then it's 10 days according to CDC.