Is my private school enabling poor behavoir

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I really appreciate all the comments and stories.

I am clearly coming at this in a different way than many posters. For one, I generally think that little kids' shouldn't be punished for things that happen at school. I heard from school twice last year (via email) about my son being too silly/disruptive, but I did hear often from my child just as we are chatting. In one case after being disruptive he missed a game after class and had to write an apology to the specials teacher who later did email me. To me, its done at that point. He misbehaved, he had a consequence at school, end of story. I can understand that certain behaviors might require more at home but a then 7 year old being silly/disruptive with two notes home isn't one of them. But, clearly others disagree. I am curious why. If the child was punished at school, why punish again? We absolutely spoke about what happened but not with a consequence. I understand this approach might not get immediate behavior change but it seems the most appropriate to me. Are people really punishing small kids again at home? Why?

So that was last year. He is now 8 and in 3rd grade. I have heard absolutely nothing from school this year about behavior so all my info is from him. He is openly sharing mistakes and what happened. It seems preposterous to punish him at home for that? I can't even wrap my head around that. My concern is that the behavior is tolerated over and over so my original question was more...is this just normal school stuff that happens everywhere or are some schools more strict, and if so, how?

So you are concerned he isn’t being disciplined enough at school?

Yes, I think school should be firmer....but he is my oldest so I don't really know what schools do. I never did anything at school that would have gotten me in trouble so this is all new.

[Anonymous]

You need to work w your son on being respectful to all his teachers. It’s not ok to “take advantage” even if he has a teacher who is inexperienced or not strict enough or not engaging enough or whatever. It sounds like he has a problem w respecting teachers and rules. If his teachers haven’t so far been successful teaching him this respect then you need to emphasize and practice it even more w your son at home. I think the teachers should be more strict and more engaging but you can’t control them so you’re not going to change them or their teaching style/methods. You can only take it upon yourself to teach your son to be respectful of his teachers and of school rules.

This is not a teacher or school culture (“progressive in nature” school) problem, it’s a problem w your son.

He’s young enough that you have time to fix this problem. But don’t rely on or expect school to do it for you. Or pull him out and put him in a stricter, more structured school.

And next time you request a meeting w teacher(s)/admin, don’t take no for an answer. Follow through and meet w them but when you meet w them listen to what they have to say. Make it a meeting where you are just trying to understand and appreciate things from their perspective. Not a meeting where you’re defending your son or offering your opinion. A meeting where you listen and ask them what they would like you to do to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s very easy to assume a kid just needs discipline but behavior is more complicated than that. All behavior is communication and it’s the parents job to truly listen and understand so you can figure out what is causing it.

My son started having behavior, attention, and mood issues out of nowhere in 3rd grade at the age of 8. We were so upset when we learned about how he was treating teachers and students at school. We discussed every issue and “disciplined” for the incidents. So did the school. Things got worse and our relationship as well as his relationship with teachers deteriorated quickly. I finally sat down, asked lots of questions in a calm, loving, and nonjudgmental way. The counselor at school did the same thing. We started to pick up on themes and did more investigating. We realized that DC was being bullied, that teachers were unintentionally embarrassing him in front of peers when he made mistakes and didn’t understand a new concept, and there was likely a medical issue of some kind because he kept saying he didn’t know why he was doing some of these things and he couldn’t control it. It became clear he was struggling with executive function but doctors didn’t think he had ADHD. After a lot of investigation, we discovered a sleep disorder which was taking a major toll on his executive function and mood. Had I not stopped to listen to him, we would have continued down a path of discipline and kept delaying the treatment that was actually needed.

a "sleep disorder"? can you please explain a bit more?

My son had obstructive sleep apnea. His breathing was blocked by tonsils and adenoids which resulted in lowered blood oxygen levels and brain arousals more than 100 times a night. That level of sleep fragmentation and blood oxygen issues was causing the problems with executive function and mood. The most common symptom of sleep apnea in kids is behavior issues.

I realize I'm adding to a tangent, but we had a similar situtation with our son but were lucky enough to identify it while he was in PreK. Our big sign was that he was "sleeping" about 12 hours a night and still taking daily, lengthy, naps at 5. But he also had physical symptoms, like he was very clumsy and seemed to have underdeveloped proprioceptive skills. He had his adenoids and tonsils removed and some PT. He was much improved by the time he started Kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had a school that told us everything was under control, until it wasn’t, and it effectively became our problem.

By that time the problem had snowballed. As parents, we tried our best but from miles away with infrequent communication and the only idea of what might be going on coming from our very biased child and maybe a handful of his classmates, we weren’t able to sort it out.

We weren’t sure if this was normal either, so spent a lot of time trying to learn about what is normal and what happens elsewhere.

In the end, based on everything we learned, our child ended up moving to a different school. We’re all much happier.

This sounds like our school. They aren't transparent and when you call with a question or concern, they tell you "we got this, your kid will advocate for themselves."
And then they proceed to not handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the parent wants to do the right thing and is paying for private with the hope that school staff will be open and communicative about issues. The fact that the son is sharing all of these misbehaviors and the school is not seems backwards.

I think OP can explore schools AND give more consequences AND consider exploring possible ADHD concerns.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I really appreciate all the comments and stories.

I am clearly coming at this in a different way than many posters. For one, I generally think that little kids' shouldn't be punished for things that happen at school. I heard from school twice last year (via email) about my son being too silly/disruptive, but I did hear often from my child just as we are chatting. In one case after being disruptive he missed a game after class and had to write an apology to the specials teacher who later did email me. To me, its done at that point. He misbehaved, he had a consequence at school, end of story. I can understand that certain behaviors might require more at home but a then 7 year old being silly/disruptive with two notes home isn't one of them. But, clearly others disagree. I am curious why. If the child was punished at school, why punish again? We absolutely spoke about what happened but not with a consequence. I understand this approach might not get immediate behavior change but it seems the most appropriate to me. Are people really punishing small kids again at home? Why?

So that was last year. He is now 8 and in 3rd grade. I have heard absolutely nothing from school this year about behavior so all my info is from him. He is openly sharing mistakes and what happened. It seems preposterous to punish him at home for that? I can't even wrap my head around that. My concern is that the behavior is tolerated over and over so my original question was more...is this just normal school stuff that happens everywhere or are some schools more strict, and if so, how?

It seems like you are comfortable letting the school take over disciplining your son when he is at school without your reinforcement. The school doesn’t have the authority to discipline to the degree a parent can, particularly because parents sue. If your child shows a pattern of being disruptive or obnoxious to teachers, it is literally in his best interest that he face consequences severe enough to knock it off. And those consequences aren’t coming from school so they have to come from you. Your son walks into a school where adults dislike him for being disruptive in their class and your response is to escalate it in the school and not escalate it with him. If you don’t see how that will never change the root problem, then you might as well keep changing the environment and see who he learns to blame for his shortcomings in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to work w your son on being respectful to all his teachers. It’s not ok to “take advantage” even if he has a teacher who is inexperienced or not strict enough or not engaging enough or whatever. It sounds like he has a problem w respecting teachers and rules. If his teachers haven’t so far been successful teaching him this respect then you need to emphasize and practice it even more w your son at home. I think the teachers should be more strict and more engaging but you can’t control them so you’re not going to change them or their teaching style/methods. You can only take it upon yourself to teach your son to be respectful of his teachers and of school rules.

This is not a teacher or school culture (“progressive in nature” school) problem, it’s a problem w your son.

He’s young enough that you have time to fix this problem. But don’t rely on or expect school to do it for you. Or pull him out and put him in a stricter, more structured school.

And next time you request a meeting w teacher(s)/admin, don’t take no for an answer. Follow through and meet w them but when you meet w them listen to what they have to say. Make it a meeting where you are just trying to understand and appreciate things from their perspective. Not a meeting where you’re defending your son or offering your opinion. A meeting where you listen and ask them what they would like you to do to help.

OP here. this is great advice. thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I really appreciate all the comments and stories.

I am clearly coming at this in a different way than many posters. For one, I generally think that little kids' shouldn't be punished for things that happen at school. I heard from school twice last year (via email) about my son being too silly/disruptive, but I did hear often from my child just as we are chatting. In one case after being disruptive he missed a game after class and had to write an apology to the specials teacher who later did email me. To me, its done at that point. He misbehaved, he had a consequence at school, end of story. I can understand that certain behaviors might require more at home but a then 7 year old being silly/disruptive with two notes home isn't one of them. But, clearly others disagree. I am curious why. If the child was punished at school, why punish again? We absolutely spoke about what happened but not with a consequence. I understand this approach might not get immediate behavior change but it seems the most appropriate to me. Are people really punishing small kids again at home? Why?

So that was last year. He is now 8 and in 3rd grade. I have heard absolutely nothing from school this year about behavior so all my info is from him. He is openly sharing mistakes and what happened. It seems preposterous to punish him at home for that? I can't even wrap my head around that. My concern is that the behavior is tolerated over and over so my original question was more...is this just normal school stuff that happens everywhere or are some schools more strict, and if so, how?

It seems like you are comfortable letting the school take over disciplining your son when he is at school without your reinforcement. The school doesn’t have the authority to discipline to the degree a parent can, particularly because parents sue. If your child shows a pattern of being disruptive or obnoxious to teachers, it is literally in his best interest that he face consequences severe enough to knock it off. And those consequences aren’t coming from school so they have to come from you. Your son walks into a school where adults dislike him for being disruptive in their class and your response is to escalate it in the school and not escalate it with him. If you don’t see how that will never change the root problem, then you might as well keep changing the environment and see who he learns to blame for his shortcomings in the long run.

OP here. I hear what you are saying but I this isn't really the context of the situation. The school has reached out via email twice (last year) to say he was disruptive...I don't know if I would call that a pattern. Some of what he shares with me sounds like he is being disruptive but I have zero information about anything from school. Before I create a plan to attack to help my son I do need some information about their view of his behavoir and so far the feedback is that he is going well. His progress reports are positive, he had a great relationship with his teachers last year...he even wrote them letters over the summer. Its just not as you describe.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t reach out to his teacher after your son tells you about stuff he has done. Just a quick note that says “I know he is an unreliable narrator, but the kid is telling me this and if it’s true I would really like confirmation from you so we can talk about consequences at home.”

You need their confirmation and reporting in behavior, and also to express to them that this behavior is unacceptable and you are willing to back them up with consequences at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why you wouldn’t reach out to his teacher after your son tells you about stuff he has done. Just a quick note that says “I know he is an unreliable narrator, but the kid is telling me this and if it’s true I would really like confirmation from you so we can talk about consequences at home.”

You need their confirmation and reporting in behavior, and also to express to them that this behavior is unacceptable and you are willing to back them up with consequences at home.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I really appreciate all the comments and stories.

I am clearly coming at this in a different way than many posters. For one, I generally think that little kids' shouldn't be punished for things that happen at school. I heard from school twice last year (via email) about my son being too silly/disruptive, but I did hear often from my child just as we are chatting. In one case after being disruptive he missed a game after class and had to write an apology to the specials teacher who later did email me. To me, its done at that point. He misbehaved, he had a consequence at school, end of story. I can understand that certain behaviors might require more at home but a then 7 year old being silly/disruptive with two notes home isn't one of them. But, clearly others disagree. I am curious why. If the child was punished at school, why punish again? We absolutely spoke about what happened but not with a consequence. I understand this approach might not get immediate behavior change but it seems the most appropriate to me. Are people really punishing small kids again at home? Why?

So that was last year. He is now 8 and in 3rd grade. I have heard absolutely nothing from school this year about behavior so all my info is from him. He is openly sharing mistakes and what happened. It seems preposterous to punish him at home for that? I can't even wrap my head around that. My concern is that the behavior is tolerated over and over so my original question was more...is this just normal school stuff that happens everywhere or are some schools more strict, and if so, how?

It seems like you are comfortable letting the school take over disciplining your son when he is at school without your reinforcement. The school doesn’t have the authority to discipline to the degree a parent can, particularly because parents sue. If your child shows a pattern of being disruptive or obnoxious to teachers, it is literally in his best interest that he face consequences severe enough to knock it off. And those consequences aren’t coming from school so they have to come from you. Your son walks into a school where adults dislike him for being disruptive in their class and your response is to escalate it in the school and not escalate it with him. If you don’t see how that will never change the root problem, then you might as well keep changing the environment and see who he learns to blame for his shortcomings in the long run.

OP here. I hear what you are saying but I this isn't really the context of the situation. The school has reached out via email twice (last year) to say he was disruptive...I don't know if I would call that a pattern. Some of what he shares with me sounds like he is being disruptive but I have zero information about anything from school. Before I create a plan to attack to help my son I do need some information about their view of his behavoir and so far the feedback is that he is going well. His progress reports are positive, he had a great relationship with his teachers last year...he even wrote them letters over the summer. Its just not as you describe.

OP, you are all over the place. You say the school says there is no problem and you don’t want to discipline at home. So what is there to do? The school is handling it, they don’t think they need to loop you in, and you have admitted you don’t want to do anything at home anyway. So there you go. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they are enforcing the rules, it's not a lack of structure. It's more likely to be the increasing expectations for kids as they get older.

Yes I think they are enforcing the rules, but my child doesn't seem to find the consequence very compelling. Or that's my view. In other places he is very well behaved like sports, camp, etc.

Aren’t sports and camp typically more fun and active than school? I think you are comparing apples and oranges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I don’t understand. If the school doesn’t seem overly concerned and they feel they have a handle on it, why are you worried?

Because of the Parenting thingy?

Despite your snarky response, I still don't understand. If my kid "got in trouble" in school, the school handled it, and didn't feel it even rose to level where I needed to be involved, what's the issue?

I'm a teacher and I deal with student behavior issues a dozen times a day. Do you think I call the parent about everything that happens at school? If there's a serious issue or pattern of concerning behavior that I can no longer effectively manage in the classroom, then I will get parents involved. Otherwise, minor stuff can wait until parent-teacher conferences.

If your child goes home and tells you they "got in trouble", that's fine and certainly their prerogative. But if I debriefed every singe behavior issue with a parent then I would have no time to teach. Trust that we know what we're doing.

[Anonymous]

I had to stop reading the comments on this thread because it seemed so many responses seemed to be missing the point or just didn’t get it.

OP I am in a similar situation but with a slightly older child. Yes we discipline at home but that’s not the point. His school works wonderfully for many kids but not necessarily for some. I strongly suspect behavior would be less of a distraction and focus of our energy in a more structured environment. So that is what we are looking for with our next school. I too have seen him perform better with more strict coaches and teachers. Different kids need different things.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry you're stuck with this uncertainty, OP. My experience is that kids generally want to do well and not get into trouble, so unless your son is contemptuous about some of the rules or what he's learning, I'm inclined to think that some of this behavior is beyond his control. I wonder if talking to a learning specialist or similar would be helpful or even finding some dippy "does my child have ADHD?" quiz to help articulate what some of the common behaviors are (hint: focus is only a part of this issue.) I took a quiz for my 3rd-grader and it focused the picture for me, naming some things I didn't think were related but which are.

In addition, I don't think most private schools have the strongest handle on these things because they have selective admission and can counsel students out. Public school teachers and specialists have seen much more. Not saying that a public school would be better for your child (I don't have enough info to judge), but that although people think private school staff have wisdom in recognizing what issues kids might be struggling with, I don't find that to be the case.

It sounds like you're on the start of a journey and need some expertise beyond the school and beyond this forum. I wish you and your son the best! -- from a parent of a 3rd-grader also on a journey