Wife constantly talking about how much men suck

[Anonymous]

Meh…I get it. My ex-wife did that too. Guess what? All men suck? Ok? So I went on strike. I used to do all the outdoor stuff, lawn care, house maintenance, vehicle maintenance by either fixing it myself or taking it in. Kept track of finances…etc.

She did the same thing I got fed up…and went on strike. I did those things for me but not her. Then when I got the “we’ll that’s a man’s job” I said well you keep saying guys suck, and this is a new age so handle yourself like and adult.

We got a divorce and I ended up remarrying four years later to the complete opposite. I do all the things I used to do but with someone who appreciates my time and effort. And in turn I appreciate what she brings and she’s a great mom to her kids, my son and super affectionate and I love making her happy. She’s not really into politics and barely dies any social media, doesn’t even have an Instagram. I hate social media for the most part. And she’s actually engaged with what we’re doing instead of complaining about how all men suck.

Your wife sounds miserable OP, do yourself a favor and ask her to change her attitude and if she doesn’t go do your thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally on the same side as my wife politically, and I agree that women tend to get the short end of the stick in a lot of ways, politically, legally, and culturally. But the constant drumbeat of how men suck is just really off-putting. When I occasionally object, she'll say some variant of "oh, I don't mean you." If I was on and on about the shortcomings of women, she'd be furious. And she'd take it personally.

Anyone else have a spouse who fixates on a single subject in a way that's relentlessly negative? If so, how do you deal with it?

You can’t take women seriously when they talk like this, and, for God’s sake, don’t bother responding. It’s like wrestling with a pig in mud, and you’ll never persuade her to go against the consensus of mainstream female opinion, even in those cases where you can prove beyond doubt her position is incorrect. It’s not about that.

I don't want to persuade her that she's wrong. By and large she isn't wrong. The things she complains about are mostly legitimate. But vaguely blaming it on "men" repeatedly and at length isn't helping her to change anything, isn't making her happier, and is an irritant in our relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Damn—way to gloss over what OP said. I’m the lesbian who posted above. We’re not all man-haters, and to jump to the conclusion that OP’s wife must be a lesbian speaks more about your limited cognitive processing and immaturity than anything else. I’d be just as annoyed as OP if my spouse kept trashing men. As I stated above, my own spouse can go on and on about how awful Trump and Republicans are. I promise that just because get tired of it doesn’t mean I’m a closeted Republican. To quote OP, it’s about his spouse being “relentlessly negative.”

You sound like an angry person, and a good match for your Trump hating partner - bigots tend to gravitate to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Damn—way to gloss over what OP said. I’m the lesbian who posted above. We’re not all man-haters, and to jump to the conclusion that OP’s wife must be a lesbian speaks more about your limited cognitive processing and immaturity than anything else. I’d be just as annoyed as OP if my spouse kept trashing men. As I stated above, my own spouse can go on and on about how awful Trump and Republicans are. I promise that just because get tired of it doesn’t mean I’m a closeted Republican. To quote OP, it’s about his spouse being “relentlessly negative.”

You sound like an angry person, and a good match for your Trump hating partner - bigots tend to gravitate to each other.

That escalated quickly. "Slow day on the Internet. Guess I'll gratuitously call someone on the Internet a bigot!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men are dumb AF

You would get a long nicely with the OP, the Trump hating lesbians, and the woman who can't/won't have sex with her husband. It is a shame that DCUM cannot connect you all to go out and spend time together!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Damn—way to gloss over what OP said. I’m the lesbian who posted above. We’re not all man-haters, and to jump to the conclusion that OP’s wife must be a lesbian speaks more about your limited cognitive processing and immaturity than anything else. I’d be just as annoyed as OP if my spouse kept trashing men. As I stated above, my own spouse can go on and on about how awful Trump and Republicans are. I promise that just because get tired of it doesn’t mean I’m a closeted Republican. To quote OP, it’s about his spouse being “relentlessly negative.”

You sound like an angry person, and a good match for your Trump hating partner - bigots tend to gravitate to each other.

That escalated quickly. "Slow day on the Internet. Guess I'll gratuitously call someone on the Internet a bigot!"

if the shoe fits

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you find it off-putting? Is it because it’s a downer? Because it’s constant? Because you are in the group that is pissing her off? All three?

If it’s because it’s a downer and/or constant, and you have already tried finding common ground and changing the subject, I’d just tell her you love her but you don’t have it in you to keep talking about it and encourage her to find people to vent to, like a friend, online group, or therapist.

If it’s because you’re a man and feeling defensive on behalf of yourself or other men, examine that feeling. Defensiveness usually comes from somewhere. And perhaps try to really, really see where she is coming from. A lot of men agree intellectually with this stuff but don’t actually get it. I find that when men really do get it, they feel less defensiveness and more compassion for their partner. And a little anger on their behalf.

This is dumb. "Examine that feeling"? He feels...annoyed. And why wouldn't he? Nobody would want to hear someone go on and on and on about how much their gender sucks. Get outta here. "I find that when men really do get it"?? What man is agreeing with you saying men suck all of the time? My guess is none. - A woman.

I said examine the defensiveness, not the aspect of repeated complaints. The reason negative feelings surrounding repeated complaints doesn’t really need to be examined because constant complaining brings people down. So the solution is just to kindly let the one complaining that they can’t listen anymore and when the complainer needs to vent they have to find another listening ear.

Defensiveness is trickier. Often when men bristle when women complain about men, it’s because deep down inside it makes them wonder “am I at fault here?” Your ego usually doesn’t want to ask itself that question so instead you react with defensiveness and blame the person triggering the defensiveness. But many men do learn to respond to complaints about sexism with some humility. They might decide that they aren’t doing anything wrong, but they gain some understanding about the anger. Or they might decide they want to do better.

This is hard but practicing empathy and letting go of ego is great for your marriage.

This is cult logic. If you disagree it's because of a failing in yourself. You should examine that.

That’s not at all what I said. I didn’t even mention disagreement. I never said OP had to agree. In fact I don’t agree with OP’s wife.

Couples so often screw up relationships because they get caught up in who is right and who is wrong, thanks to our egos. But that’s rarely what actually matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her social media, and the mainstream media, constantly trashes cis-gender males

Especially white, cis-gender, males.

Your spouse is just repeating what she constantly hears from media.

Now consider why . . .

This is ridiculous. I can't speak for curated social media, but the mainstream media does not in any way, shape or form "constantly trash cis-gender males."

Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

I think people often get stuck in complaint loops with this stuff. The PPs who talked about spouses who became obsessed about ranting about Trump are onto something. My DH is like this and even though I agree with him, I really hit a wall with having to hear for the 4000th how mad DH was about something or other Trump had done. Or wanting to watch the Daily Show or Seth Myers just to be able to nod along with the jokes about how bad Trump is. Again, I agree, but I can't steep myself in the misery of it. It seems masochistic.

I think ranting about how men are awful is similar. I think this became a loop a lot of women got stuck in after #MeToo, just something they could turn to when frustrated or a mini-philosophy about the world. So now when they see or experiencing something bad, they turn to "men suck" and it makes them feel better because at least they can explain it.

I agree it's way too simplistic and really doesn't capture what is going on with misogyny and patriarchy. For starters, women reinforce misogyny and patriarchy ALL THE TIME. Even women who describe themselves as feminists do this. I know women who went to the women's march and proudly declare themselves feminists, but who will say things about women they know like, "Well of course her husband doesn't help around the house -- she's really let herself go since they had kids and he doesn't feel appreciated." That's a direct quote, by the way. Many women have become kind of knee jerk feminists who want to cheerlead women in general, and can get very angry on their own behalf when they sense misogyny at play, but otherwise just blindly buy into lots of misogynist notions about women and relationships without much introspection.

OP, maybe you can start pointing out when women reinforce patriarchy to your wife. Start with easy ones, like Kelly Ann Conway or Johnny Depp's lawyer. It might force your wife to start recognizing that patriarchy is actually a lot more complicated than just "men suck" and that there are actually plenty of women in positions of power or authority who benefit from patriarchy more than certain men do, often because of their class status, their whiteness, or their willingness to betray other women. Eventually maybe your wife will evolve her philosophy to something a bit more accurate, like "people suck, especially when doing so helps them oppress others." Or "systems of oppression suck." Not as catchy but a lot more accurate. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

My friends’ husbands generally suck. They think my husband is Ah-MAY-zing, but he’s just a normal guy who can be a parent and an adult without being told what to do or nagged. I do sometimes tell him how much other guys suck, but as a way to remind him that I recognize how awesome he is and how much I appreciate him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally on the same side as my wife politically, and I agree that women tend to get the short end of the stick in a lot of ways, politically, legally, and culturally. But the constant drumbeat of how men suck is just really off-putting. When I occasionally object, she'll say some variant of "oh, I don't mean you." If I was on and on about the shortcomings of women, she'd be furious. And she'd take it personally.

Anyone else have a spouse who fixates on a single subject in a way that's relentlessly negative? If so, how do you deal with it?

You can’t take women seriously when they talk like this, and, for God’s sake, don’t bother responding. It’s like wrestling with a pig in mud, and you’ll never persuade her to go against the consensus of mainstream female opinion, even in those cases where you can prove beyond doubt her position is incorrect. It’s not about that.

I don't want to persuade her that she's wrong. By and large she isn't wrong. The things she complains about are mostly legitimate. But vaguely blaming it on "men" repeatedly and at length isn't helping her to change anything, isn't making her happier, and is an irritant in our relationship.

Your response sounds totally reasonable. I do think that men are responsible for a disproportionate amount of society's ills. There's a percentage of people in every populations that are jerks, antisocial, violent, etc., but men just seem to have a higher proportion. But I totally agree with you that it's not helpful to anyone to ruminate on that. I think it's impprtant for you not to argue with her, You can validate her feelings but then say that you need to talk about something else. THe issue here is not misanthropy -- it's really that she sounds like she is having obsessive thoughts. THat's a different problem/solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you find it off-putting? Is it because it’s a downer? Because it’s constant? Because you are in the group that is pissing her off? All three?

If it’s because it’s a downer and/or constant, and you have already tried finding common ground and changing the subject, I’d just tell her you love her but you don’t have it in you to keep talking about it and encourage her to find people to vent to, like a friend, online group, or therapist.

If it’s because you’re a man and feeling defensive on behalf of yourself or other men, examine that feeling. Defensiveness usually comes from somewhere. And perhaps try to really, really see where she is coming from. A lot of men agree intellectually with this stuff but don’t actually get it. I find that when men really do get it, they feel less defensiveness and more compassion for their partner. And a little anger on their behalf.

This is dumb. "Examine that feeling"? He feels...annoyed. And why wouldn't he? Nobody would want to hear someone go on and on and on about how much their gender sucks. Get outta here. "I find that when men really do get it"?? What man is agreeing with you saying men suck all of the time? My guess is none. - A woman.

I said examine the defensiveness, not the aspect of repeated complaints. The reason negative feelings surrounding repeated complaints doesn’t really need to be examined because constant complaining brings people down. So the solution is just to kindly let the one complaining that they can’t listen anymore and when the complainer needs to vent they have to find another listening ear.

Defensiveness is trickier. Often when men bristle when women complain about men, it’s because deep down inside it makes them wonder “am I at fault here?” Your ego usually doesn’t want to ask itself that question so instead you react with defensiveness and blame the person triggering the defensiveness. But many men do learn to respond to complaints about sexism with some humility. They might decide that they aren’t doing anything wrong, but they gain some understanding about the anger. Or they might decide they want to do better.

This is hard but practicing empathy and letting go of ego is great for your marriage.

This is cult logic. If you disagree it's because of a failing in yourself. You should examine that.

That’s not at all what I said. I didn’t even mention disagreement. I never said OP had to agree. In fact I don’t agree with OP’s wife.

Couples so often screw up relationships because they get caught up in who is right and who is wrong, thanks to our egos. But that’s rarely what actually matters.

Maybe I misconstrued what you wrote. I read it as you presuming that annoyance or irritation was because of defensiveness rather than just arising out of, say, a legitimate weariness that came from a place other than defensiveness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people often get stuck in complaint loops with this stuff. The PPs who talked about spouses who became obsessed about ranting about Trump are onto something. My DH is like this and even though I agree with him, I really hit a wall with having to hear for the 4000th how mad DH was about something or other Trump had done. Or wanting to watch the Daily Show or Seth Myers just to be able to nod along with the jokes about how bad Trump is. Again, I agree, but I can't steep myself in the misery of it. It seems masochistic.

I think ranting about how men are awful is similar. I think this became a loop a lot of women got stuck in after #MeToo, just something they could turn to when frustrated or a mini-philosophy about the world. So now when they see or experiencing something bad, they turn to "men suck" and it makes them feel better because at least they can explain it.

I agree it's way too simplistic and really doesn't capture what is going on with misogyny and patriarchy. For starters, women reinforce misogyny and patriarchy ALL THE TIME. Even women who describe themselves as feminists do this. I know women who went to the women's march and proudly declare themselves feminists, but who will say things about women they know like, "Well of course her husband doesn't help around the house -- she's really let herself go since they had kids and he doesn't feel appreciated." That's a direct quote, by the way. Many women have become kind of knee jerk feminists who want to cheerlead women in general, and can get very angry on their own behalf when they sense misogyny at play, but otherwise just blindly buy into lots of misogynist notions about women and relationships without much introspection.

OP, maybe you can start pointing out when women reinforce patriarchy to your wife. Start with easy ones, like Kelly Ann Conway or Johnny Depp's lawyer. It might force your wife to start recognizing that patriarchy is actually a lot more complicated than just "men suck" and that there are actually plenty of women in positions of power or authority who benefit from patriarchy more than certain men do, often because of their class status, their whiteness, or their willingness to betray other women. Eventually maybe your wife will evolve her philosophy to something a bit more accurate, like "people suck, especially when doing so helps them oppress others." Or "systems of oppression suck." Not as catchy but a lot more accurate. Good luck!

A few more:

Amy Coney Barrett
Susan Collins
Ginny Thomas

There are so many terrible, terrible women in the world, I just don't understand how you can maintain "men suck" as a viable opinion unless you are willing to concede that both genders suck?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends’ husbands generally suck. They think my husband is Ah-MAY-zing, but he’s just a normal guy who can be a parent and an adult without being told what to do or nagged. I do sometimes tell him how much other guys suck, but as a way to remind him that I recognize how awesome he is and how much I appreciate him.

Oh and I agree that it is tiring to listen to people complain about the same thing over and over. My mom is the worst with the negativity. I went to a cognitive behavioral therapist for a while, so I try to remind her that she can’t control other people but she can control her own reaction to other people. Complainers just want to complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people often get stuck in complaint loops with this stuff. The PPs who talked about spouses who became obsessed about ranting about Trump are onto something. My DH is like this and even though I agree with him, I really hit a wall with having to hear for the 4000th how mad DH was about something or other Trump had done. Or wanting to watch the Daily Show or Seth Myers just to be able to nod along with the jokes about how bad Trump is. Again, I agree, but I can't steep myself in the misery of it. It seems masochistic.

I think ranting about how men are awful is similar. I think this became a loop a lot of women got stuck in after #MeToo, just something they could turn to when frustrated or a mini-philosophy about the world. So now when they see or experiencing something bad, they turn to "men suck" and it makes them feel better because at least they can explain it.

I agree it's way too simplistic and really doesn't capture what is going on with misogyny and patriarchy. For starters, women reinforce misogyny and patriarchy ALL THE TIME. Even women who describe themselves as feminists do this. I know women who went to the women's march and proudly declare themselves feminists, but who will say things about women they know like, "Well of course her husband doesn't help around the house -- she's really let herself go since they had kids and he doesn't feel appreciated." That's a direct quote, by the way. Many women have become kind of knee jerk feminists who want to cheerlead women in general, and can get very angry on their own behalf when they sense misogyny at play, but otherwise just blindly buy into lots of misogynist notions about women and relationships without much introspection.

OP, maybe you can start pointing out when women reinforce patriarchy to your wife. Start with easy ones, like Kelly Ann Conway or Johnny Depp's lawyer. It might force your wife to start recognizing that patriarchy is actually a lot more complicated than just "men suck" and that there are actually plenty of women in positions of power or authority who benefit from patriarchy more than certain men do, often because of their class status, their whiteness, or their willingness to betray other women. Eventually maybe your wife will evolve her philosophy to something a bit more accurate, like "people suck, especially when doing so helps them oppress others." Or "systems of oppression suck." Not as catchy but a lot more accurate. Good luck!

Thanks for this. I definitely relate to the bit about sharing political sensibilities but burning out on the idea of watching political shows that amount to wallowing in misery.