Coalition4TJ’s request to block TJ admissions process DENIED 6-3 by Supreme Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been following this topic, but am interested in what the court is ruling on. Can someone point me to a thread with a plain language explanation of the admissions change? Thank you!

1. 2020 TJ admission results showed black students are TS (too small, less than 10). George Floyd happened. The SB and the superintendent decided to change the admission policy to increase the numbers of URMs.
2. The SB changed the policy that removed the entrance exam, added quota for attending middle school (deliberately not using base school), and experience factors for low income, etc.
3. A group of parents sued the FCPS for discrimination under the 14th amendment
4. A federal district court judge ruled against FCPS that it illegally discriminated against Asians and ordered the suspension of the new admission policy
5. FCPS appealed to the 4th circuit and was granted a stay.
6. The parent group appealed to the SC to lift the stay but the request was denied by 6-3 with Barret and Kavanaugh joining the liberals.

The whole case is still pending in the 4th circuit.

There were also concerns about admission changes at the other Virginia governor's school, Maggie Walker. As well as admission changes at Stuy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been following this topic, but am interested in what the court is ruling on. Can someone point me to a thread with a plain language explanation of the admissions change? Thank you!

1. 2020 TJ admission results showed black students are TS (too small, less than 10). George Floyd happened. The SB and the superintendent decided to change the admission policy to increase the numbers of URMs.
2. The SB changed the policy that removed the entrance exam, added quota for attending middle school (deliberately not using base school), and experience factors for low income, etc.
3. A group of parents sued the FCPS for discrimination under the 14th amendment
4. A federal district court judge ruled against FCPS that it illegally discriminated against Asians and ordered the suspension of the new admission policy
5. FCPS appealed to the 4th circuit and was granted a stay.
6. The parent group appealed to the SC to lift the stay but the request was denied by 6-3 with Barret and Kavanaugh joining the liberals.

The whole case is still pending in the 4th circuit.

There were also concerns about admission changes at the other Virginia governor's school, Maggie Walker. As well as admission changes at Stuy.

I think there are a lot of unproven assumptions there, but I do think they tried to make admissions more equitable since that better serves the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians getting the shaft again

Just the concept of fair admissions is getting the shaft. I had no idea there were so many extra experience points - one can get 150points by doing nothing And there is no way to differentiate between an average and good kid either with only essays. So no teacher recs, admissions test but base decisions on flowery essays, experience factors and GPAs from middle school which are so inflated. Do you really want such a system for a magnet school? I am new here and not a TJ parent but am at a complete loss here. The only thing that explains this is sheer envy and vindictiveness towards Asians because the process seems only designed to make sure that there are lesser Asians.

+1. Poor kids at TJ is a travesty and needs to be corrected.

Many like the C4TJ folks seem to agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not been following this topic, but am interested in what the court is ruling on. Can someone point me to a thread with a plain language explanation of the admissions change? Thank you!

1. 2020 TJ admission results showed black students are TS (too small, less than 10). George Floyd happened. The SB and the superintendent decided to change the admission policy to increase the numbers of URMs.
2. The SB changed the policy that removed the entrance exam, added quota for attending middle school (deliberately not using base school), and experience factors for low income, etc.
3. A group of parents sued the FCPS for discrimination under the 14th amendment
4. A federal district court judge ruled against FCPS that it illegally discriminated against Asians and ordered the suspension of the new admission policy
5. FCPS appealed to the 4th circuit and was granted a stay.
6. The parent group appealed to the SC to lift the stay but the request was denied by 6-3 with Barret and Kavanaugh joining the liberals.

The whole case is still pending in the 4th circuit.

Wasn't there also much pressure, maybe even threat of lawsuits, on behalf of the black and Hispanic students because of the underrepresentation? I don't think you can leave this out. It wasn't just George Floyd.

Yes, they filed a civil rights complaint several years ago.

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2012/07/25/top-ranked-high-school-slapped-with-civil-rights-complaint

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/therootdc/post/thomas-jefferson-hs-fairfax-schools-shut-out-blacks-and-latinos-complaint-alleges/2012/07/24/gJQAvpsQ7W_blog.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am anti the new policy, but I don't see how this is a federal case.

Really??? Ever heard of the US Constituiton?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians getting the shaft again

Just the concept of fair admissions is getting the shaft. I had no idea there were so many extra experience points - one can get 150points by doing nothing And there is no way to differentiate between an average and good kid either with only essays. So no teacher recs, admissions test but base decisions on flowery essays, experience factors and GPAs from middle school which are so inflated. Do you really want such a system for a magnet school? I am new here and not a TJ parent but am at a complete loss here. The only thing that explains this is sheer envy and vindictiveness towards Asians because the process seems only designed to make sure that there are lesser Asians.

Any Asian admitted under the new system won't be lesser. Why would you assume Asians admitted under the new system would be lesser? That seems racist to me.

[Anonymous]

TJ will be dumbed down gradually and it may not become obvious until 4-5 years. It will not be hyper competitive anymore and will consist of much broader range of skill levels instead of extreme academic focus. This is because the new selection process, irrespective of diversity changes, made it much more difficult to identify the STEM talent pool. The TJ cohort will not be much different from any other Honors or AP class at base school and not like what it is now which is probably several steps above.

For example, unweighted GPA that actually make it a disadvantage to take tougher courses (all together only 25% weight), science essay that tests writing skills more than STEM (25% weight) and portrait sheet that only tests writing kills (25% weight) with NO teacher input nor any other items that can put spot light on the student will make it difficult to differentiate students especially from Level IV feeder schools who mostly have similar GPA, but vastly different writing abilities. So, the process may essentially boil down to lottery. Also, since majority of the highly competitive kids especially from feeder schools will completely lose out the other 25% weightage, very few of them will make the final cut.

On the whole, I think the new selection process is likely better for mental health of students and feel the need to sacrifice a lot of personal enjoyments to stay competitive at TJ. However, ranking and overall quality could suffer, which may be ok in the long run. Also, getting selected into TJ will no longer a be a big deal as we will continue see quite a few very smart kids not get in. I am telling my kid the same i.e., except for few electives/labs, he will not really miss out much by going to base HS as he is anyway planning to take mostly honors classes.

[Anonymous]

Meh. Rankings aren’t that important.

I like the decreased focus on math acceleration. K significant numbers of kids taking algebra 1 in 6th (and somewhat in 7th) is nuts.

Deeper, not faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians getting the shaft again

Just the concept of fair admissions is getting the shaft. I had no idea there were so many extra experience points - one can get 150points by doing nothing And there is no way to differentiate between an average and good kid either with only essays. So no teacher recs, admissions test but base decisions on flowery essays, experience factors and GPAs from middle school which are so inflated. Do you really want such a system for a magnet school? I am new here and not a TJ parent but am at a complete loss here. The only thing that explains this is sheer envy and vindictiveness towards Asians because the process seems only designed to make sure that there are lesser Asians.

Any Asian admitted under the new system won't be lesser. Why would you assume Asians admitted under the new system would be lesser? That seems racist to me.

That's what you want - power over Asians so that you can give them crumbs and claim superiority. save it...savior

[Anonymous]

Just another example of opportunity hogging by the UMC on display. All these parents would fight tooth and nail to keep AA kids out. It’s just like during desegregation but instead of spitting at the kids, you throw lawsuits. Gross!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ will be dumbed down gradually and it may not become obvious until 4-5 years. It will not be hyper competitive anymore and will consist of much broader range of skill levels instead of extreme academic focus. This is because the new selection process, irrespective of diversity changes, made it much more difficult to identify the STEM talent pool. The TJ cohort will not be much different from any other Honors or AP class at base school and not like what it is now which is probably several steps above.

For example, unweighted GPA that actually make it a disadvantage to take tougher courses (all together only 25% weight), science essay that tests writing skills more than STEM (25% weight) and portrait sheet that only tests writing kills (25% weight) with NO teacher input nor any other items that can put spot light on the student will make it difficult to differentiate students especially from Level IV feeder schools who mostly have similar GPA, but vastly different writing abilities. So, the process may essentially boil down to lottery. Also, since majority of the highly competitive kids especially from feeder schools will completely lose out the other 25% weightage, very few of them will make the final cut.

On the whole, I think the new selection process is likely better for mental health of students and feel the need to sacrifice a lot of personal enjoyments to stay competitive at TJ. However, ranking and overall quality could suffer, which may be ok in the long run. Also, getting selected into TJ will no longer a be a big deal as we will continue see quite a few very smart kids not get in. I am telling my kid the same i.e., except for few electives/labs, he will not really miss out much by going to base HS as he is anyway planning to take mostly honors classes.

Sounds like a great direction Good job Fairfax county

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think that if we had an equally highly regarded arts and humanities magnet in the western part of the county, it would take some of the pressure off of TJ?

Yes, but it will take time. A magnet school focused on sports & athletics would work faster and probably be more popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ will be dumbed down gradually and it may not become obvious until 4-5 years. It will not be hyper competitive anymore and will consist of much broader range of skill levels instead of extreme academic focus. This is because the new selection process, irrespective of diversity changes, made it much more difficult to identify the STEM talent pool. The TJ cohort will not be much different from any other Honors or AP class at base school and not like what it is now which is probably several steps above.

For example, unweighted GPA that actually make it a disadvantage to take tougher courses (all together only 25% weight), science essay that tests writing skills more than STEM (25% weight) and portrait sheet that only tests writing kills (25% weight) with NO teacher input nor any other items that can put spot light on the student will make it difficult to differentiate students especially from Level IV feeder schools who mostly have similar GPA, but vastly different writing abilities. So, the process may essentially boil down to lottery. Also, since majority of the highly competitive kids especially from feeder schools will completely lose out the other 25% weightage, very few of them will make the final cut.

On the whole, I think the new selection process is likely better for mental health of students and feel the need to sacrifice a lot of personal enjoyments to stay competitive at TJ. However, ranking and overall quality could suffer, which may be ok in the long run. Also, getting selected into TJ will no longer a be a big deal as we will continue see quite a few very smart kids not get in. I am telling my kid the same i.e., except for few electives/labs, he will not really miss out much by going to base HS as he is anyway planning to take mostly honors classes.

TJ is not about being "smart" it's about STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ will be dumbed down gradually and it may not become obvious until 4-5 years. It will not be hyper competitive anymore and will consist of much broader range of skill levels instead of extreme academic focus. This is because the new selection process, irrespective of diversity changes, made it much more difficult to identify the STEM talent pool. The TJ cohort will not be much different from any other Honors or AP class at base school and not like what it is now which is probably several steps above.

For example, unweighted GPA that actually make it a disadvantage to take tougher courses (all together only 25% weight), science essay that tests writing skills more than STEM (25% weight) and portrait sheet that only tests writing kills (25% weight) with NO teacher input nor any other items that can put spot light on the student will make it difficult to differentiate students especially from Level IV feeder schools who mostly have similar GPA, but vastly different writing abilities. So, the process may essentially boil down to lottery. Also, since majority of the highly competitive kids especially from feeder schools will completely lose out the other 25% weightage, very few of them will make the final cut.

On the whole, I think the new selection process is likely better for mental health of students and feel the need to sacrifice a lot of personal enjoyments to stay competitive at TJ. However, ranking and overall quality could suffer, which may be ok in the long run. Also, getting selected into TJ will no longer a be a big deal as we will continue see quite a few very smart kids not get in. I am telling my kid the same i.e., except for few electives/labs, he will not really miss out much by going to base HS as he is anyway planning to take mostly honors classes.

TJ is not about being "smart" it's about STEM.

If you say so - then why not just stop all the BS process that claims merit bases selection and just opt for lottery based selection among those who meet the minimum criteria. Then I agree that TJ is all about the interest in STEM and not about being smart. Honestly, I will be fine with it, no question of discrimination and it will be fair for everybody. What do you say????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ will be dumbed down gradually and it may not become obvious until 4-5 years. It will not be hyper competitive anymore and will consist of much broader range of skill levels instead of extreme academic focus. This is because the new selection process, irrespective of diversity changes, made it much more difficult to identify the STEM talent pool. The TJ cohort will not be much different from any other Honors or AP class at base school and not like what it is now which is probably several steps above.

For example, unweighted GPA that actually make it a disadvantage to take tougher courses (all together only 25% weight), science essay that tests writing skills more than STEM (25% weight) and portrait sheet that only tests writing kills (25% weight) with NO teacher input nor any other items that can put spot light on the student will make it difficult to differentiate students especially from Level IV feeder schools who mostly have similar GPA, but vastly different writing abilities. So, the process may essentially boil down to lottery. Also, since majority of the highly competitive kids especially from feeder schools will completely lose out the other 25% weightage, very few of them will make the final cut.

On the whole, I think the new selection process is likely better for mental health of students and feel the need to sacrifice a lot of personal enjoyments to stay competitive at TJ. However, ranking and overall quality could suffer, which may be ok in the long run. Also, getting selected into TJ will no longer a be a big deal as we will continue see quite a few very smart kids not get in. I am telling my kid the same i.e., except for few electives/labs, he will not really miss out much by going to base HS as he is anyway planning to take mostly honors classes.

TJ is not about being "smart" it's about STEM.

If you say so - then why not just stop all the BS process that claims merit bases selection and just opt for lottery based selection among those who meet the minimum criteria. Then I agree that TJ is all about the interest in STEM and not about being smart. Honestly, I will be fine with it, no question of discrimination and it will be fair for everybody. What do you say????

Also, kids who need to pay for prep classes in order to present as gifted are already dumbing it down.