S/O Can we talk about how bad Lin-Manuel Miranda's music is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Succession said it best:

Tom: “Oh, don’t worry Greg. This is a nice, safe space where you don’t have to pretend to like ‘Hamilton.'”
Greg: “…I like ‘Hamilton.'”
Tom: “Sure you do. We all do.”

My DH and I fell OUT at this line. I don't normally identify with the characters on Succession but that was a real point of recognition.

I like Hamilton, too. We all do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamilton is the sort of musical that Rent was. Pure heaven for the NPR Set because it was so "vital" and "urgent" and "timely". Taken right from the front pages of the Times! But objectively, when viewed from afar, the music was largely pedestrian and mediocre. I mean, just listen to some Sondheim and compare them. It's almost embarrassing.

Sondheim was a talent of his time. Same with LMM. Sondheim would probably be considered boring by younger generations.

Hamilton uses 20,053 words over basically 2.5 hours. It would take a typical Broadway musical 6 hours to use the same number of words.

LMM is faster, more in keeping with a faster-paced world. I think that is one of the biggest issues for traditional Broadway audiences and their lack of appreciation for LMM.

It is extremely weird to me that this is touted as good. More words doesn't mean better. I've never left a play or musical and thought "wow, there were so many words -- I really got my money's worth!"

Also, just my two cents, but given the fast pace of the world I live in, I don't want to have to process 20k words in 3 hours. It's too much. I'm tired. I appreciate play writes and songwriters who can convey their point in fewer words, and who rely on other tools (phrasing, syntax, rhythm, etc.) and not just sheer volume of text.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The question is: is he musically talented to people who do not like that particular type of music?

It's a very good question. I do not like his type of music at all. I do not think he has any particular musical talent relative to the thousands of song-creators out there. However I do see that he has excellent directing and storytelling talent, and he has a charismatic personality, which people flock to.

And that's fine.

what type of music do you like?

[Anonymous]

Hamilton is the sort of musical that insists on itself. To fawn over it has become a Totem of Admittance into that rarified White Woke Set that pats itself on the back that they appreciated a black actor playing George Washington role. So edgy and vital! And the three sisters had some SASS! Really, though, the best part of Hamilton was the orchestration which does an admirable job of holding up a largely flaccid score, the set, and some of the players from the original cast like Renee Elise Goldsberry and Leslie Odom and Jonathan Groff (who crushed it as King George).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am stunned by the level of devotion and defensiveness around Disney movies on this thread. I had no idea! Moana was fine, my kid didn't like the scary parts and it's actually got a lot of scary parts so we turned it off. We watched Encanto recently and it was diverting but have had no desire to rewatch and none fo the songs have really stuck with me.

These are Disney movies. "Modern masterpiece"? What the heck? You guys realize that one of the primary tenets of making a Disney movie is "makes kids want to buy merchandise", right? You can't make perfect art under that dictate. It's always going to be a little treacly, a little to perfect, a little machined around the edges.

Are you as confused by people who are equally dramatically negative about it?

like..."I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How DARE YOU diss Moana!!! Every song in that movie is amazing.

I cannot stop singing We dont talk about Bruno, so yes, it's just you.

YOU'RE WELCOME

+1. I find his voice a little grating and I think it's annoying that he casts himself in roles instead of giving them to good singers/rappers. But his songs are awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone posted in an old Hamilton thread that his bars and cadence sound like 2 Skinnee J’s (for you East Coasters of a certain age) and I totally agree.

Love 2 Skinnee Js, love LMM, and totally get the connection.

Do not love falling into the category of "East Coasters of a certain age."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Succession said it best:

Tom: “Oh, don’t worry Greg. This is a nice, safe space where you don’t have to pretend to like ‘Hamilton.'”
Greg: “…I like ‘Hamilton.'”
Tom: “Sure you do. We all do.”

My DH and I fell OUT at this line. I don't normally identify with the characters on Succession but that was a real point of recognition.

I like Hamilton, too. We all do.

It's fine to not like Hamilton, but the reason none of the people at the far-right meeting of greedy super-capitalists and fascists like it is bc they are far-right super-capitalists and fascists. Greg actually likes Hamilton bc he is not that (I think Tom actually does too and is just trying to fit in, but anyway). The joke is not that normal ppl pretend to like Hamilton, it's that normal people like it and racist right-wingers pretend to when they are around normals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No rhythm? How do you define rhythm?

This is why I think OP is narcissistic, its like objectively silly to say he has no rhythms or melodies. We Don't Talk About Bruno, love it or hate it, is an INCREDIBLY complex song rhymically and melodically, from a technical musical standpoint. Like it, don't like it, whatever, that's personal. But that song takes like 5 distinct narrative verses and then layers them for a united harmonious crescendo (and that is like, not a metaphorical crescendo to be dramatic but what crescendo actually means when you are composing a song).

Interesting take.I think you’re right, We don’t talk about Bruno is brilliant from a technical point of view - multiple voices entering and exiting, layering etc....crescendoing.... but it doesn’t move me emotionally at all. Not the way Joni Mitchell’s Both sides now or River, or even Frozen’s Let it go.
It’s the same with rap - it’s cool but I don’t feel anything.

So I hear you OP! I also didn’t love Hamilton. Saw it once and that was enough. But I have seen Wicked 5 times now in London, NYC, Toronto. And I would see it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hamilton is the sort of musical that insists on itself. To fawn over it has become a Totem of Admittance into that rarified White Woke Set that pats itself on the back that they appreciated a black actor playing George Washington role. So edgy and vital! And the three sisters had some SASS! Really, though, the best part of Hamilton was the orchestration which does an admirable job of holding up a largely flaccid score, the set, and some of the players from the original cast like Renee Elise Goldsberry and Leslie Odom and Jonathan Groff (who crushed it as King George).

You're very wrong, actually. Liking Hamilton is not seen as woke - it is considered peak Obama-era liberal cringe bc it is to the founders what the West Wing is to the presidency (starry-eyed wish fulfillment).

I actually do like it, but just wanted to point out that liking it definitely does not impress woke ppl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMM is SOOOOO overrated. Broadway music for the NPR set.

Who do you think goes to Broadway shows? The Fox Sports set?

LOL

[Anonymous]

Yup. Thought I was the only one. I love some songs and Hamilton as a whole but also recognize basically everything is the same thing. Hated In the Heights. Liked Encanto, but it was very obviously his music and parts sounded exactly like Hamilton. I also dislike his voice and thought it was ridiculous he kept himself cast as Hamilton for so long when his singing voice is just awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Broadway music for the NPR set - haha. yes!

I also hate musicals and yet watched Hamilton and still don't like musicals. I also felt "yelled at"!

But Moana was the worst of the worst - I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater.

I think maybe the problem is that ppl expect waaaay too much from children's movies? They are movies for children...it's not going to be Citizen Kane. The best you are going to get is a couple of winking jokes aimed at the parents and maybe a catchy song or two.

Taking your kids to see a Disney movie is an activity you do to entertain your kids. I don't understand how doing that causes you "psychic pain" unless your expectations are extremely out of whack

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup. Thought I was the only one. I love some songs and Hamilton as a whole but also recognize basically everything is the same thing. Hated In the Heights. Liked Encanto, but it was very obviously his music and parts sounded exactly like Hamilton. I also dislike his voice and thought it was ridiculous he kept himself cast as Hamilton for so long when his singing voice is just awful.

I generally like his stuff but agree that a lot of it sounds similar. I didn't know he did the music for Encanto and when Dolores started rapping during "We Don't Talk About Bruno" I was like, it's messed up that they basically just copied Hamilton. But I'm ok with it. Not every song is amazing, he has a recognizable style, but he also has some real bangers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Broadway music for the NPR set - haha. yes!

I also hate musicals and yet watched Hamilton and still don't like musicals. I also felt "yelled at"!

But Moana was the worst of the worst - I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater.

I think maybe the problem is that ppl expect waaaay too much from children's movies? They are movies for children...it's not going to be Citizen Kane. The best you are going to get is a couple of winking jokes aimed at the parents and maybe a catchy song or two.

Taking your kids to see a Disney movie is an activity you do to entertain your kids. I don't understand how doing that causes you "psychic pain" unless your expectations are extremely out of whack

I love animated movies and I’m over age 10. I don’t even remember any of the songs from Moana. But there are many beloved songs from other Disney and non-Disney movies.
Let it go
Beauty and the Beast
Rainbow connection
Aladdin