McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait until the people in Great Falls realize they are not part of McLean proper.

Just wait until you realize that Great Falls makes up at least half - if not more - of Langley students.

Sounds like McLean is starting to catch up to where Great Falls already was in terms of disappointment with FCPS. If they are allowed to exit, I’m sure they will coordinate and do so together, especially since both Langley HS and McLean HS are in McLean.

Langley, however, is happy with FCPS, not disappointed.

Because Langley HS is practically brand new since 2018 after renovations.

Langley parent here. We’re happy that we finally got a much-needed renovation, but that doesn’t mean we’re all happy with the direction FCPS has been going. I imagine there would be huge support among the Langley community to separate from FCPS, if it came to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wait until the people in Great Falls realize they are not part of McLean proper.

Just wait until you realize that Great Falls makes up at least half - if not more - of Langley students.

Sounds like McLean is starting to catch up to where Great Falls already was in terms of disappointment with FCPS. If they are allowed to exit, I’m sure they will coordinate and do so together, especially since both Langley HS and McLean HS are in McLean.

Langley, however, is happy with FCPS, not disappointed.

Says who? Most of Great Falls wanted a change in direction at FCPS in 2019 and got outvoted in Dranesville by Herndon and McLean. People aren’t happy with the delay in Cooper’s renovation, the possibility that FCPS may move kids to Cooper from Longfellow in the middle of Cooper’s renovation, and the frequent hints that FCPS will rezone at least part of Great Falls out of Langley as soon as they can get away with it.

This. But of course, we were called “racists” for feeling that way. Interesting that with the idiotic new SB, more families are catching on to why we were trying to vote for a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took my kid to Justice HS this morning for SAT and Justice has better facilities than McLean. McLean looks like a dump, and I can’t even play tennis at McLean because they put trailers on the tennis courts. I am paying 25k/yr for my McLean home property tax and get shitty McLean HS facilities. I am for separating Mclean from Fairfax county.

They have started to unload the cheap modular and it is almost as ugly as the shitty trailers sitting on the tennis courts. Justice is less crowded than McLean and they are getting a $20 million permanent addition designed by an architect. Of course McLean should try to sever its ties from Fairfax County and FCPS. We all now that there is only one School Board member who’ll speak up for a better facility and smaller class in thst area and she’ll be bullied into silence by the other members who just want McLean’s tax money.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

What are you babbling about? There are plenty of special Ed programs already in place at Langley and McLean. Langley has an excellent program for autistic kids and others with special needs. My own son has an IEP - as do many kids - and is in special classes. It doesn’t sound like you know much about he schools you’re criticizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

Do you twits actually think there are no special Ed kids at McLean or Langley? Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? Once again, Langley has a large program for kids with special needs, including autism. They also have classes for more mainstreamed students who still need extra help and/or have IEPs, 504s, etc. Maybe educate yourselves about these schools before dumping all your vitriol on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

+100
People like the PP are so transparent. They’ll keep throwing up hypothetical roadblocks because they can’t stand the thought of the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls being “allowed” to separate from FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

+100
People like the PP are so transparent. They’ll keep throwing up hypothetical roadblocks because they can’t stand the thought of the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls being “allowed” to separate from FCPS.

MCA does not include Great Falls, I don't think they are thinking about including Great Falls.

[Anonymous]

Some basic facts:

McLean does not begrudge Langley getting its scheduled renovation and an addition. Some don’t agree FCPS should have bumped up the size of that addition without more transparency.

Langley welcomes kids from McLean as long as they don’t just overcrowd Cooper or Langley and supports an addition to McLean.

Langley is not racist and would welcome kids from McLean living in apartments in Tysons.

McLean is not racist and would welcome the kids from the 1/2 of its Title I feeder that go to Falls Church if FCPS actually added space at McLean for them.

Both Langley and McLean are tired of super large size classes, uncertainties around boundaries, and the general sense that FCPS likes their tax money but otherwise plans poorly for their pyramids and generally sends them the message to shut up and accept what they are given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is special ed in all this? Langley and McLean pyramids don't have a bunch of the FCPS programs. Legally, you have to provide comparable and meet the IEP or get the pants sued off you. So it will have to be set up. And given that it's McLean, you're going to get the pants sued off you anyway constantly, all the time, by parents demanding 1:1 aides and 1:1 Orton-Gillingham and placements at Ivymount and Lab and Oakwood and Fusion. This will add millions in costs. Do people understand how expensive this stuff is? I looked up Greenwich, CT and there are multiple articles over the years about them constantly overrunning their special ed budget due to having to fund out-of-district placements. A drop in the bucket for FCPS, a major balance sheet issue for McLean City Public Schools.

And Greenwich has almost triple the property tax rate of Fairfax County. Brookline is about double. There are some serious rose-tinted glasses going on here.

Excellent point. Either they haven't considered it, or they're banking on people either putting their children with SN in private schools at their own expense.

The more relevant comparison would be taxes in Falls Church City, not Brookline.

No. Falls Church separated in 1949. Decades before IDEA was passed. Therefore the programs developed organically, and they sure don’t seem to have much. McLean will be faced with legal obligations to replicate an existing system. They’re going to need discrete programs like Brookline has. They are also going to have to cope with aggressive, moneyed families with lawyers who will expect the best for their SN students the same way this thread is demanding better for typical students because of wealth. You don’t get one without the other.

It’s telling that you’d try to use SN kids as a pretext to defend the continued under-investment in McLean schools that works to the detriment of all the kids in that area.

Greater McLean would be far better off untethered by those in control from elsewhere in the county who treat it as a cash cow but otherwise ignore it and leave the parents to provide supplemental support.

+100
People like the PP are so transparent. They’ll keep throwing up hypothetical roadblocks because they can’t stand the thought of the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls being “allowed” to separate from FCPS.

MCA does not include Great Falls, I don't think they are thinking about including Great Falls.

Just wait - it is inevitable for multiple reasons that MCA and GFCA will align on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it include the Falls Church area (part of Fairfax) that goes to Haycock/Mclean HS? If not, where would they end up (sandwiched between FCC and Mclean)?

it would probably include the same footprint as the McLean Community Center tax district.

School-enrollment-wise it seems Langley/McLean combined are currently about at appropriate capacity levels, but using the MCC tax district border cuts out portions of McLean's boundary (various pockets between 7 and 267) in addition to almost all of Great Falls / 22066, so they'd be underenrolled and thus shift overenrollment burden to FCPS with those boundaries.

I could see them swapping out Great Falls / 22066 but adding in most of the rest of the area between 267 and 7 (e.g. Pimmit Hills north of 7) to keep the city more compact/contiguous, but also right-sized for the current facilities (and thereby not worsening the overcrowding burden on FCPS, though FCPS would of course need to do adjust their school boundary so that enrollments are properly reweighted). Maybe carve out some exceptions for the less-residential areas of Tysons as I'm sure FC wouldn't want to lose that corporate tax base (Capital One and others)... else establish some sort of annual transfer payment to offset those tax revenues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it include the Falls Church area (part of Fairfax) that goes to Haycock/Mclean HS? If not, where would they end up (sandwiched between FCC and Mclean)?

it would probably include the same footprint as the McLean Community Center tax district.

School-enrollment-wise it seems Langley/McLean combined are currently about at appropriate capacity levels, but using the MCC tax district border cuts out portions of McLean's boundary (various pockets between 7 and 267) in addition to almost all of Great Falls / 22066, so they'd be underenrolled and thus shift overenrollment burden to FCPS with those boundaries.

I could see them swapping out Great Falls / 22066 but adding in most of the rest of the area between 267 and 7 (e.g. Pimmit Hills north of 7) to keep the city more compact/contiguous, but also right-sized for the current facilities (and thereby not worsening the overcrowding burden on FCPS, though FCPS would of course need to do adjust their school boundary so that enrollments are properly reweighted). Maybe carve out some exceptions for the less-residential areas of Tysons as I'm sure FC wouldn't want to lose that corporate tax base (Capital One and others)... else establish some sort of annual transfer payment to offset those tax revenues.

The combined Langley and McLean areas are contiguous, including Great Falls/22066, with the exception of the Timber Lane attendance island in Falls Church assigned to McLean, which I assume a Greater McLean would offer to absorb.

[Anonymous]

This is simply not going to happen. The VA legislature commissioned a study after the moratorium was last extended in 2016, which recommended that the moratorium become permanent. The legislature is not interested in all the lawsuits that surround city formation and annexation, and many smaller cities in the commonwealth are contemplating the opposite (returning to town status and being reabsorbed by the surrounding county).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCC is doing pretty much exactly the same thing as FCPS with respect to Return to School.

The idea of moving new high schoolers to Langley from McLean was shuttled because Cooper parents wanted to include MS in the boundary adjustments.

You sound very uninformed.

No. It’s Longfellow parents who want to include Cooper in the discussion if they are going to be moved to Langley, and Cooper parents who don’t want kids moved to already overcrowded Cooper during its upcoming renovation. The delay is a direct result of how bad the planning is in FCPS; they create awkward ES/MS feeder patterns and then middle and high schools in the same pyramids that aren’t the right size for each other. They added more seats than were needed at Langley during its renovation when they should have been adding seats to both Langley and McLean, dragged their feet for years before even agreeing to take up a boundary study (because they were toying behind the scenes with the idea of county-wide busing “in the name of equity”), and realized when they finally got around to considering boundary changes that anything they propose will be undesirable until they finish the overdue Cooper renovation years from now.

In a smaller, well-run system, the Facilities people responsible for this mess would have been replaced by now, but it’s FCPS so the excuse is always to point to how big and “complex” FCPS is to administer. Enough is enough.

Yup, it's my understanding that future and current Longfellow have reasons to object. For example, I'm in an ES in Vienna where kids go to either Longfellow or Cooper. Most go to Cooper. So my child will be in the minority of students that go to Longfellow. So we wouldn't want her to then again be in the tiny minority that goes to Langley from Longfellow. If you're going to redistrict us to Langley at least do it so she can join Langley with fellow students from Cooper. Look at the current school district for McLean High. It has this odd island area in Vienna districts for Longfellow McLean. It's been like this for decades. I wonder why is island area was even created in the first place. So weird.

I guess you live in or near Shouse Village and kids go to Colvin Run. Shouse used to go to Langley and the school was overcapacity. Marshall was under and Shouse refused to go. 1984 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1984/04/22/a-battle-over-fairfax-school-boundaries/7580faee-4b31-40ce-82e9-4b9e54c4a8f0/?utm_term=.fb6e24e33a67

And we have now 10's of millions because Corbett Sanders and Co won't go to Mount Vernon.

[Anonymous]

pipe dream. every post on this thread is focused on failure of FCPS to expand McLean HS, but ignored the tax subsidies, infastructure investments that VA and FC have poured into this area to make Tyson's/ Silver Line a reality. Last time I drove Route 7, massive infastructure investments. NoVA pours $ into this area, as it should.. Drives our economy. This is not about trailers at one HS. FC and VA have zero incentive to allow incorporation after all they have done here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pipe dream. every post on this thread is focused on failure of FCPS to expand McLean HS, but ignored the tax subsidies, infastructure investments that VA and FC have poured into this area to make Tyson's/ Silver Line a reality. Last time I drove Route 7, massive infastructure investments. NoVA pours $ into this area, as it should.. Drives our economy. This is not about trailers at one HS. FC and VA have zero incentive to allow incorporation after all they have done here.

The posts have touched on a wider set of issues; it’s why Langley parents have been weighing in and the MCA initiative was presented by MCA members living in the Langley, not McLean, area.

Posters are right the moratorium could be renewed but it won’t help Fairfax as a business destination if they tear TJ apart and also continue to neglect one of their other top high schools near Tysons (although the Tysons business area is almost all within the Marshall HS boundaries). They could end up with a whole lot of nothing in Tysons for that investment.